Jump to content
Brian Enos's Forums... Maku mozo!

How long did it take you to develop a baller reload?


ArrDave

Recommended Posts

I've been hitting reloads hard for quite a while.  I dry fire pretty much every day for a half hour. I will devote a couple weeks every couiple months to just reloads.  My reloads aren't the best.  My 4 Aces time at 10 yards is like 3.9 and my typical reload is 1.5-1.7 shot to shot.  I do burkett loads.  i've played with how I present the mag well, i think i've figured out how to do that to most consistently insert the mag, but I still just am not there on speed.  How long does it take to burn it in?  

 

I'm a (fairly rapidly) improving 67% shooter.  With the way I've been shooting it'll be a matter of time until I hit A class (shot 72.22% of Sal Luna at GA State)I know my reload is going to be something holding me back from getting through A class.  

 

How long did it take you?  What drills did you find most helpful in dryfire/live fire?  

Most recent classifier:

 

Edited by ArrDave
Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said:

I'd almost bet you need to move your support hand faster. Burket reloads with par time a .6 make that happen.

I have literally done nothing but that drill for a week or more straight.  Stand by and I'll ammend the original post for my most recent match classifier. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

i have found that anderson's pause and effect reload drill has helped me alot, but it still took a year or so of work to get to the 1.3 range on easy targets. I am a bit of a slow learner.

 

2 places i was losing time were getting the mag up in the first place, and then getting back on target after inserting the mag. the pause and effect reload definitely helped me with the second part. Basically i set the partime for .8 or .9, and do a burkett reload, then wait for the beep finishing the reload and pushing the gun back out to the target. That drill helped make the second part of the reload 1 continuous motion instead of 2 separate things.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not a GM so take my advice with a grain of salt.  I am pretty quick on my reloads though and many of my guns have the proof of lots of practice showing in the magwell area.

It looks like your weak hand is doing 3 separate motions.  It's swiping that fresh mag up as quick as possible, finding the well and inserting, and finishing the load stroke.  It seems to be consistent.  That's costing you time.  It needs to be one movement.  That muscle memory just has to know the exact stroke to put it right on the money every time (or as close to every time as is possible).  

I could recommend a couple of things to help.  Try practicing as often as possible with a tougher to load gun (single stack without a magwell or a .22 of some kind).  It will make that well on your race gun seem like a hula hoop when you switch back.  Also, I think just practicing the stroke as one motion will help. You don't need to be fast.  You need to do it RIGHT consistently.  Then slowly add speed.  I still do this when I practice.  I start in ridiculous looking slow motion and give it about 4 runs that each pick up a little speed until I'm at full speed.  I've gotten so used to my stroke that really the limiting factor now is how stinking slow my hands move.  It feels like I'm waiting an eternity sometimes for that mag to finally get to the gun.  I doubt this is a revelation, but it's what works for me.  It took me about a year to learn to get my reloads under 1.3 which seems similar to what motosapiens is saying.  I still practice it routinely and seem to be having diminishing returns at this point, but consistency is important.

Nice shooting by the way.

EDIT: Also ALWAYS practice with full magazine weight if you already aren't.  It makes a big difference

Edited by Pistolpete9
added a line
Link to comment
Share on other sites

A consistent reload is more valuable than a lightning quick one where you throw the mag across the range 15% of the time. Ask me how I know.

It may sound counter intuitive, but ditch exclusive reload practice for a month and come back to it.





Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Reloads for a match score are completely different than reloads for a classifier.

I practiced classifier reload for a very long time, and got them fast after about 6 months. However, reloading while exploding out of a position, or reloading while running is completely a different muscle memory and muscle movement.

Like someone else said, ditch static reload practice. 

I would suggest working on match reloads more. You'll see more benefit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Want to reload faster? Set a par time on your timer .1 slower than your average reload. Gun up & ready.  Fire on start beep, reload & wait for par beep then fire.  When youre waiting .2 or so after your reload, move par time .1 faster.  Continue this until you have a hard time beating par time.  Make sure all hits are A on 7yd target.  When you reach that "I cant beat the par" point, erase par time.  Fire on beep, reload & fire.  You will do faster reload.  Its not too hard to knock .5 off reload times.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Doing partial insertion drills will help you a bunch.  Do the reload and stop short when the mag is just lined up, but not inserted in the mag well.  That's it.  

Do that for a little while, then do it as two steps.  Partial insertions... pause... complete the reload.  

This will create a natural, imperceptible pause during the reload that's caused by you actually looking at the insertion moment.  That will really help with consistency.

Even if you notice or exaggerate the pause it will be super short and create much more consistency so it will really help with fluidity and hence speed.    This helps with either static loads or movement loads.  

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have trouble getting the mag to gun angle correct / consistent.  Going back to basics with untimed slow reloads to try and groove the proper grab.  is there anything else to work on while doing the required bajillion repeats needed to get it ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I like the number of around 25k-50k dry fire reloads to start getting pretty good.

Couple quick things:

First is without a gun draw your fresh mag and get it to where the insertion point would be. At that point note the angle and orientation of your mag with the goal being to hold the gun at that exact angle when reloading.

Second is you have to go faster than is comfortable but faster should not always be sloppier. Try to reload and have the mag not even touch the walls of the gun, then try to hold that precision as long as you can at full speed

Most of the times when I botch a reload today it's because I flubbed the position of the mag in my hand when retrieving it from the belt. A critical aspect of reloading fast is getting to the new mag as fast as possible. Imagine your weak hand/arm as a wet towel that is snapping down to your belt. If you aren't flubbing something occasionally you're not pushing it hard enough.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My experience is that it took me about a year from when I started to get my reload where I was comfortable. My standards changed along the way. 

First I wanted to have the reload done within a step on a field course.

Then I wanted to have the reload done before my the mag coming out of the gun had hit the ground.  At that point I was doing a consistent 1.1-1.2 reload. 

 

I spend a LOT of time getting my max speed reload down to less than a second over the span of a year. It took a lot of work to drop those last .2-.3. Most of the gains were from moving my weak hand faster and also bringing the gun in closer to my body. Having the gun closer meant that my grip is reestablished sooner and the gun is stable faster for the next shot. 

The main reason I pushed my reload speed (also did the same work on my draw speed to get down to the low .8 range) was to get it done so I could focus on other things. Having the gun reloaded and ready let's me focus on how I enter a position, or be aiming the gun sooner. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Fast gun handling (draws & reloads) come from "Fast Hands" and minimal wasted body movement or motion. Watching your video I can see a lot of wasted body and head movement to get the mag off your belt and up to the gun. Only your arms should be moving during the reload. The below video shows Max doing some "Baller" reloads from multiple different camera angels. Don't get distracted by the speed of the gun handling in this video. Focus your attention on what body & head movement is happening during the reloads. More importantly, observe what body parts are NOT moving during the reload. He is only moving body parts that are required to do the reload and nothing else. This efficiency of movement is what creates "Fast" reloads not so much trying to do it faster by injecting more aggression into the process. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

How long does it take to burn in fully optimized hand/body movement during a reload? There is no magical number of repetitions or time in practice to get it done. We are all slightly retarded and we all take a unique amount of time to get past that retardedness. You also need to factor in how long you have been practicing doing the reload process incorrectly. If you have been doing any process incorrectly for a long time it will take an even longer time to relearn the process to do it a different way.

The best way I go about relearning a process is to work on one piece of the process at a time. Break down the process into its primary steps then work on one step at a time until its optimized then start working on the next step. Instead of trying to fix your whole "Reload" all at once, work on the sub components of the process one at a time until they are optimized.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah comparing the two videos i can see I am moving a lot of unnecessary stuff.  But more aggression is how I roll (you actually struck a chord.  My default position of trying to push speed is to do it more aggressively, which is another way of saying adding tension which is counter intuitive to speed.  

 

Draw is another one I need to work on I know I waste movement on that as well.  

It's good info, humbling, but good.  

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Being aggressive by trying to over power the process verses having efficient fast hands are two totally different skills. The first increases overall tension and inconsistency. The second promotes efficiency while increasing consistency. This kind of falls into the saying of "Train smarter, not harder".  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Back in the day... Int the beginning, I practiced mag changes a LOT. Robbie and I would stand next to each other with pistols aimed at the wall, and his brother would say "go." Racing against each other to get the mag changed and the pistol back to the index position was good stuff. And even though after about a couple years of religious mag change practice - I could probably change mags about as fast as I ever could - I never stopped regularly practicing mag changes for the 20 years I competed. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Back in the day... Int the beginning, I practiced mag changes a LOT. Robbie and I would stand next to each other with pistols aimed at the wall, and his brother would say "go." Racing against each other to get the mag changed and the pistol back to the index position was good stuff. And even though after about a couple years of religious mag change practice - I could probably change mags about as fast as I ever could - I never stopped regularly practicing mag changes for the 20 years I competed. 


It's just a grind, you make progress in an area to see the extent of the progress yet to make


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wouldn't watch videos of Max reloading an open gun if you're shooting production.. totally different.. Instead watch Stoeger, or Vogel..  I like Jake's advice on ensuring the position of the mag in your hand when retrieving it.. Things that work for me are setting a par time in dry fire and really pushing myself to make or beat the time.. What I find is the more I do it, the more I male the time.  Usually when I make a conscious effort to see the mag well, I tend to have clean, smooth reloads..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I see a lot of good recommendations that I will have to try as well... I am an amateur, but I have found that for me the best way to speed up and clean up my reload is to break it down and work on each part separately... starting aimed in I drill myself getting the gun back and canted, mag out and in the gun, and from there back out and press... then put it all together, then live fire.... Works for me, anyone else?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/2/2016 at 11:08 PM, Sac Law Man said:

If you can reload a Tanfo well, you can reload anything...

When I bought mine I thought "that's a fairly large, blended magwell. This should be easier than my M&P."

In dryfire and non-match time spent at the range, it hasn't been any worse than the 9L was. But I keep reading comments like yours, and bracing myself for that first match...

Edited by MemphisMechanic
Link to comment
Share on other sites

27 minutes ago, MemphisMechanic said:

When I bought mine I thought "that's a fairly large, blended magwell. This should be easier than my M&P."

In dryfire and non-match time spent at the range, it hasn't been any worse than the 9L was. But I keep reading comments like yours, and bracing myself for that first match...

If you work it in dryfire,  you won't have problems. First match I ran the S2, hit most reloads well - problem children showed up while running. I never worked reloads running, just static & moving laterally.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Kind of random but sort of on topic here, I noticed it seems like Max Michel changed his reloading technique when it comes to hitting the mag release in 2016. I have been watching youtube vids and in some videos (more recent) he hits the mag release with his left thumb then reaches for the mag with the same hand. It kind of stood out to me and I never noticed it before so I looked at some match videos in 2015 and he uses his right hand thumb but the most recent uses his left hand thumb. I wonder why the change so late in the game? Editing to correct myself. Only noticed this in a couple of vids shooting open.

Edited by Shmella
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...