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Bottom dollar open build cz


SteveFromCleveland

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I'm looking for some advice on building a surplus cz75 into an open gun.

I know I could start with a TS or go straight to a built CM but I'd like to build something (preferably under $1500 to start) 

My idea sofar would be:

Base gun: surplus cz75b or pre b for about $350-400

Mags: I've already got stock cz 75 16 rounders and mec-gar 17 round anti friction mags $free

Mag extensions: probably buy 6 of the unfinished springer extensions to anodize a custom color and engrave with numbers/my info $360 but I'll amortize half of that as inventory to future builds/inventory $180

Muzzle brake: I'm out of my depth on this

Barrel: either cut down a new 6" or try and find a used barrel, potentially mill something out of a blank if I can find a reasonable 9mm blank

Barrel bushing: I would like to do a cone lockup but I am looking for suggestions

This is chiefly dependent on if I keep the stock slide or can find a take off shadow top end

Mag well: something aluminum, prepared to fit, grind, file, anodize, and fiddle with as needed (I've also got a big chunk of bronze that could be more useful than being a paperweight)

Internals: I'd like to keep the stock hammer and internals unless I could do a SA conversion under budget

Optic mount/optic: I really like green dots, and mounting the optic on its side, I don't like the slide rides (they make me blink when the gun recoils)

Recommendations: this is where I look to you guys, anything I'm missing or any opinions would be appreciated

Capabilities and tools, I've got access to haas vmc, manual mills, lathes, anodizing, parkerizing, and a friend that can tig/might weld fine work

Probably np3/industrial hard chrome the pistol when everything is done

I'd attach my current cz setup but my pic files are too big

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Is your intent to save an old pistol or just to have a nice pistol to shoot?  I ask because (after my recent experiences reworking a Pre B CZ 85) you might be better off money wise to just buy a new pistol.

A new CZ 85 would not have cost as much as what I have in my Pre B after buying/installing new springs, pins, barrel, sights and having it refinished.  After seeing what it cost me for mine (not even a competition gun, just a nice looking, nice shooting old CZ that I did all the work except the refinishing) I found a brand new CZ 75 SA that cost $600 taxes and all. 

And some of the Pre B guns have a staked on front sight, like a 1911, so you'd have to have the slide milled in order to use modern sights.  And remember, on the CZ 75/85 guns the bushing has to be held in place by something (with my Pre B it's the front sight tenon sticking down through the bushing and being staked in place, with the newer Pre B's some of them have a similar set up to the current CZ 75/85 pistol models.)

If that's what you want to do, good luck with it.  If you check costs of a new pistol plus the custom parts you want you may find out it's cheaper than buying an old pistol, replacing worn parts, having it refinished, any mill/machine work required to use the new parts (some Pre B parts aren't available anymore - there's a guy on the CZ forum looking for a Pre B CZ 75 safety and not having much luck).

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My ears are burning :)

 

It sounds like you're a very capable machinist and if your friend is handy with a TIG, you can do anything, but how much time do you want to spend on this project?  After all, time is money.

I know you're looking to save money with a surplus PreB, but I highly recommend you start with the 75B SA (which can be found used for ~$500) for your base for the following reasons:

-not all PreBs use modern mags, so if you're not an expert at identifying them it's a crap shoot

-there is no drop in extended mag release for the PreB, the Shadow mag release drops into the 75B SA frame

-there are no drop in extended safeties for the PreB, the 75B SA comes with them

-the PreB has a short beaver tail which digs into the web of your hand in recoil, the 75B SA has an extended beaver tail just like a Shadow

-the PreB has a narrowed slide at the muzzle, which is going to limit the width of your comp and cone, the 75B SA has a full width slide at the muzzle

Now to your questions:

When you say "muzzle brake" I assume you mean compensator, I've done tons of testing only to reveal most of the popular comp designs do a pretty good job, although none of them are made to drop into a CZ, so I suggest you pick a port configuration and make your own.  Check out Jared's CFD comp videos: 

 

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A 6" barrel is available new from CZ USA for $145, so you can't really beat that, although I suppose if you have a few hundred hours to burn, you could cut one from a blank :eatdrink:

If you pull out the factory barrel bushing you can make a cone comp to fit tight in the factory slide, a Shadow slide would add a lot if cost with little benefit.

With the magwell, again it sounds like you could make one, but you can buy one from CZ Custom for $75, so I don't see a compelling reason to.

If you use the 75B SA as I suggest you're all set, but even if not the SAO conversion is a piece of cake and the factory SA trigger is only $9 from CZ USA, the same hammer can be used.

Matt Cheely makes a horizontal Cmore mount for the Czechmate which will work great for your purposes, but again, you can make one if you choose.

Can't wait to hear all about your progress :)

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Kneeling Atlas, 

Yeah I've got a couple thousand hours on mills and lathes working my way through school.

I suppose my thinking on getting a surplus pistol would be that there is no hard feelings about stripping the polycoat and milling on the frame.

I actually have something a bit different in mind for my mag release, so I'm not too worried about purchasing a part. But I don't want to tip my hand just yet on that.

I guess what will make the decision is if I could find a slide that has the correct width at the front cheap enough to make a surplus gun a deal. (Or if I'm tacky enough to just run a goofy looking compensator)

That czcustom mag well is a pretty good deal, I might start with one and model something in solid works off of it.

So now I just need to price 75sa's

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Kneelingatlas whats your input on this mod http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=39056

Allegedly I could trim up a pre b frame to accept B magazines

As far as the beavertail, I've never minded the pre-b beavertail but its not like there isn't enough metal to weld on to

 

Sorry if I'm running this thread up but the Browns aren't exactly keeping my attention.

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I built one up from a EAA Witness, using largely second hand stuff the board and have about $700 in parts, including Cmore.  The barrel was the expensive part which I had a threaded extension installed.  About $250.  I have no machining skills (but doesn't stop me).

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If you have handled a CZ, you have handled a witness.  Old small frame one anyway.

This one I bought for a second cheapo conversion but ended up buying one of Atlas' open Tanfo's.  Super accurate and a nice trigger, their downfall is the milled front sight but un necessary on an open gun.  Hennings parts fit in them also.

C7C9F86C-8621-4FE4-B8CA-EE370392CF78_zps

Edited by dogtired
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Just now, dogtired said:

Oh, and donors can be had for about $300+/-

That's an attractive price but I'm still not really sold since I can bring a 75b in under budget from what I've been seeing, especially if I build it in a way where I'll be able to use the parts on a higher end base cz if I step up to a TS in a couple years 

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9 hours ago, SteveFromCleveland said:

That's an attractive price but I'm still not really sold since I can bring a 75b in under budget from what I've been seeing, especially if I build it in a way where I'll be able to use the parts on a higher end base cz if I step up to a TS in a couple years 

The optic and mount will work on the TS, but the magwell, base pads, and cone comp will be different.

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Opening up the Pre B mag well for modern magazines ain't too tough.

I tore mine (CZ 85 Pre B down to the frame and started filing with a flat file just a little narrower than the mag. well.  I'd file awhile, blow out the "dust" with an air gun/compressor and check the fit.  The file some more, blow out the "dust" and recheck, repeat, repeat, repeat till you have room for the magazine to lock in and drop free.  All you need to file for magazine clearance it the back of the mag. well, near the top, just below the sear cage.

I also took a little bit of metal off the front part of the frame where the grip screws thread into, to insure the magazine brake would not be an issue.  I cut the tab off the bottom of the magazine brake (it wraps around the hammer spring plug pin and I wanted to be able to flatten out the magazine brake so it wouldn't interfere with the magazines dropping free.

I can use the 16 round Mecgars, the 16 round Mecgars with the +2 base or the Mecgar 19 round magazines.  Not everyone is willing to do this but I was having mine refinished anyway so I figured prior to refinishing was the time to make things work the way I wanted.

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  • 3 weeks later...
  • 5 months later...

Any updates on progress? 

 

I was really interested in "building" a CZ open gun based on the SA platform but my "building" would be a much more plug and play process - and it seems like the biggest hurdle is the comp, correct? No real drop ins and no CZ smiths that do this kind of work?

 

I've been following a few of these CZ open gun builds and looking at parts on CZ USA and CZ custom. I like this one the most though, bottom dollar! :D

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  • 2 weeks later...

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