Dillon 1050 Second Primer Explosion in one week

[sophiasmith]

I recently purchased a Dillon 1050 loader. I had 12,000 Federal small rifle primers. I've loaded 1,500 9mm bullets with Silhouette powder for major 167.7 PF using Federal small rifle primers with no major problems other than a problem with the primers getting caught up in the Dillon Primer Filler I purchased at the same time. Periodically I would notice one would get hung up and it didn't fit in the tube even manually. This problem has seemed to have escalated.

NOW FOR THE MAJOR PROBLEM: I broke the primer pin used to dislodge the spent primers and didn't realize it immediately. Thereafter the primers were obviously sitting too high since they were on top of the spent primers and before I had even noticed about 10 primers went off in the tube sending my primer alarm into orbit and through my drop ceiling tile and blowing about a 3-inch hole in the inner primer tube.

I called Dillon to order the parts, which they charged me for and stated that I SHOULD NOT USE FEDERAL primers in their machines and that was the cause of my problem, that they were too soft. I know at least two other people that have 1050s and consistently use Federal primers.

I received the parts from Dillon, thought I got things all worked out and continued using the Federal primers.........and BOOM!!! another primer explosion, only this time it was a full tube. Thank goodness no injuries, but WTH!! I'm fairly new at this, but I had a veteran along my side when the most recent explosion occurred and he concurred that we had done nothing out of the ordinary.

My questions are many, but mainly what could have caused this other than the primers just plain being too soft? I am switching primers regardless, but I want to make absolutely certain this doesn't happen again. I can find no logical reason for the most recent BIG explosion today.

Any clues and advice would be greatly appreciated???

[RDA]

I honestly have no idea how you could seat a new live primer on top of the old unspent primer. I can't imagine doing it once without a KABOOM. Federal primers are well known as being very soft.

As far as seating the soft Federal primers in an empty primer pocket,

• Do you have the swaging set-up correct? Maybe you are trying to seat the soft primers in unswaged 9mm brass.
• Maybe your batch of primer are out-of-round and causing seating issues.
• Or you don't have the priming set-up correctly.

[BeerBaron]

I'm thinking bad batch of primers. I've loaded many thousands of fed small rifle and small pistol primers (on 2 dillon 650s, lee classic turret, lee loadmaster and even some on a lee hand primer).

I've had one kaboom on the lee loadmaster which was my fault forcing a sideways primer.

I've never had a problem on the 650s and never had a problem ever loading them into the pickup tubes or into the press.

I think it's a bad batch. There are brands known for the odd egg shaped primer but afaik fed is not one of them.

I would ask federal to swap your remaining primers for a new batch.

[dansedgli]

How fast are you seating them?

I've crushed an awful lot of federal small pistol and small rifle primers in my 1050 getting it tuned up right and haven't had the pleasure of a detonation yet.

With my recent batch of 357 sig I have about 100 rounds where the anvil of the old primer didn't leave the case and I've seated a small rifle primer on top of it using the full stroke of the press. Before i worked out what it was I tried putting a few primed cases back through the priming process with no issue too.

Maybe I'm just lucky.

[DougCarden]

Hi there. I have been loading for over 25 years, all on Dillon equipment. Most of the time it has been on the 1050. There are a lot of things you have to pay attention to when loading, regardless of equipment. When you become experienced you will be able to "feel" when you have resistance with the swage rod in the second stage is trying to push the old primer into the case when the primer decap pin is broken. It takes more force to pull the handle all the way through when that happens. If something feels wrong, or it takes more effort to pull down or through, you need to stop and find out why. You have figured out "why" it happened, but don't know "how" it happened. I think you need to spend some time just decapping brass so you can feel the stroke and the rhythm you need to run the machine. You also need to check your brass to see if you have any berdan cases in there, which would break your decap stem as well. There is a lot of things that go into loading, especially with the 1050. It is an awesome machine, but you have to understand it, make adjustments, and interpret what is going on with it.

You might seek out another "veteran" that understands the 1050 and has used it for years. In short, you should be able to feel the primer getting mashed in the case by the primer swage because it takes more force to do that.

Go slow, you need to learn how to walk before you run with the 1050. PS this will happen with any primer, not just federals......

Good luck,

DougC

[tyler2you]

Is anyone else concerned that Dillon is telling folks that call with problems not to use Federal Primers? What about the rest of us? Seems like a strange approach if there is truly an issue with these primers in their machines.

[rjacobs]

When I teach people how to use my 1050 I tell them "there are basically only two things you can feel on this machine and both occur near the bottom of the stroke".

1. a berdan primed piece of brass. Obvious hard stop of the machine. Sometimes broken de-cap pin.

2. a primer that is STILL in the pocket and attempting to get swaged. Not so obvious, but the last 10-15 degrees of the bottom of the stroke become extremely hard, although you can(and usually HAVE TO) push through it and then remove that case.

If you let #2 get to the primer seater you will(in my experience) blow a primer. Ive blown ~10 in close to 70k rounds on my press, all on 9mm because its, for the most part, not pre-prepped where this stuff would get caught without having live primers or powder in the machine.

With BOTH of these, when I am teaching somebody new to run my press, I take a piece of berdan brass I have and feed it in the machine and let them feel it. I then take a normal piece of spent brass and let them feel it when the swage rod crushes the primer. AFTER I started doing that, I dont think we have had any blown up primers since.

[Foxbat]

You can feel very easily when the old primer is still there, the swagger will tell you right away. it happens rarely, when the old one gets sucked in, but it never makes it past the swagger. Just pay attention to the effort.

[Youngeyes]

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=211119&hl=dillon%20and%20federal%20primers

[sophiasmith]

Thanks so much for the information, fellas. I guess no matter what, it comes down to operator error in that I should have known I had a batch of bad primers if that is truly what it was, or if I had the swag rod set wrong or if I had a spent primer in there and then forced a primer into the case on top of either a spent primer or the remains of one.......... I understand all of that and I am realizing more and more just how much I don't know here.........

BUT HERE is what I don't understand: If the problem occurred in the primer seating, then how did the whole primer magazine blow?? I am thinking the problem had to have been when the slide came back and possibly hit a primer that had been prematurely dropped or something; maybe the magazine dropped two at one time and then the slide came back and detonated the whole tube???? In other words, how could the detonation have traveled to the whole magazine????????? That's what I do NOT understand. I get one primer going, BUT THE WHOLE MAGAZINE????

My "veteran" loader friend had just adjusted the primer push rod because the primers were setting too high and he had also reamed the blue cap on the bottom of the primer magazine prior to this occurring. I feel like I NEED to understand what happened here to move forward and correct any error I may have made.

[tyler2you]

Accumulated primer dust

[RiggerJJ]

Accumulated primer dust

And the fire from the blown primer lites off the rest. I think it's about a 50/50 chance that you will lite off the primers in the mag.

That said, all of my primer ignitions (4-6, can't remember the actual number) have been just the primer, not the stack.

jj

[DWFAN]

Ive had 2 that did not set off the stack. Both as a result of a primer rim left in the case.

[Jimk60]

After reading about all this detonation problem, I've developed 2 practices.

The first is to clean my primer tubes, both the one on my 650 and the ones I load the tube from, about twice a year. Not much of any residue found, but clean none the less.

The second is that since I load both small and large primers, every time I change over, I completely clean the primer disk. I also clean the area on the platform where the disk sits as well as the bottom of the Primer Feed body Housing.

I have had crushed primers, loaded sideways, off center, crimped pocket etc. No detonations thankfully.

I have gotten much better at 'feeling' that something is not right when I seat the primer, and I stop and clear that case.

Edited December 9, 2015 by Jimk60

[dillon]

Federal primers are a more "ball of flame" shape than the "jet of flame " shape you see with other brands of primers. This is due to the particular version of lead styphnate that Federal uses, plus the lack of glass in their priming compound mix. This allows Federal primers to be somewhat more likely to ignite the column of primers than other brands. Federal primers are also more sensitive. Federal does have a warning on the large boxes not to use their primers in any primer feed system. Now many loaders use Federal primers all the time, especially revolver shooters. As long as everything is adjusted correctly, and the brass is good, you should experience few problems. But do pay attention to the effort needed to cycle the handle. If it feels different, stop and figure out why.

[ChuckS]

... If it feels different, stop and figure out why.

The short answer! Thanks, Dillon!

(Actually, this is good advice for many things. )

[9x45]

Yup, you know, just like that little poonk sound your open gun just made when it should have gone BLAM!

[Youngeyes]

Yup, you know, just like that little poonk sound your open gun just made when it should have gone BLAM!

Poonk?

poonk

Slang for anus or rectum. Well-known term to Native Americans

You don't know your poonk from a hole in the ground.

I hate it when my poonk goes blam.

[DownUnder]

Is your decapping pin pulling the primer back in? Some pins benefit from being shaped with a file so that there is no chance of the primer anvil catching on the pin and drawing the ejected primer back into place.

[Beastly]

Is your decapping pin pulling the primer back in? Some pins benefit from being shaped with a file so that there is no chance of the primer anvil catching on the pin and drawing the ejected primer back into place.

Several comments.

Root cause(s): Primers not being successfully decapped. I chuck decapping pins (pistol and rifle) in a drill and then use 600-1500 grit sandpaper to polish and maybe pit a bit of taper on the pins. This greatly reduces or eliminated the issue of the decapping pin getting stuck in the primer/anvil and sucking it back up into the primer pocket, where it will then be swaged into the primer pocket.

You must learn the differences in feel at the bottom of the downstroke. There are a lot of things going on. Swaging a crimped primer pocket vs. non-crimped pocket takes more force. Swaging a spent primer into a primer pocket takes more force and has a different feel. If something doesn't feel right, STOP and figure it out immediately. In this case, if you don't detect and correct immediately then you will try to seat a primer into a shallow primer pocket that is occupied by a swaged in spent primer. The new primer will be mangled at best, may partially seat, may fall out, may detonate, or may mangle the case head and push the case partially or fully out of the shell plate. Nothing good will come of it.

I run Federal primers for 10's of thousands of pistol rounds. I'd also be willing to bet that you haven't cut down crimped 9mm cases(s) with a dremel or hacksaw and set your swage backup rod and swage depth properly. Have to verified your primer seating depth? This will vary across head stamps, but could also be too deep which could be contributing to the problem.

Once you get the machine tuned right, and your arm/brain tuned right, things will go much easier.

Edited December 19, 2015 by Beastly

[9x45]

Yup, you know, just like that little poonk sound your open gun just made when it should have gone BLAM!

Poonk?

poonk

Slang for anus or rectum. Well-known term to Native Americans

You don't know your poonk from a hole in the ground.

I hate it when my poonk goes blam.

How do you know this stuff?..... But it still sounds like that. By the way, rectum is Southern medical terminology for "dang near kilt m"

Edited December 18, 2015 by 9x45

[lefty o]

almost have to laugh, read about this stuff, and sporadic warnings not to use federal primers in dillon presses, and right in the blue press dillon sell's their primer flip tray and the sales pitch for it is " big enough for the large federal primer trays". some things are just to ironic not to mention.

[Nik Habicht]

When I teach people how to use my 1050 I tell them "there are basically only two things you can feel on this machine and both occur near the bottom of the stroke".

1. a berdan primed piece of brass. Obvious hard stop of the machine. Sometimes broken de-cap pin.

2. a primer that is STILL in the pocket and attempting to get swaged. Not so obvious, but the last 10-15 degrees of the bottom of the stroke become extremely hard, although you can(and usually HAVE TO) push through it and then remove that case.

If you let #2 get to the primer seater you will(in my experience) blow a primer. Ive blown ~10 in close to 70k rounds on my press, all on 9mm because its, for the most part, not pre-prepped where this stuff would get caught without having live primers or powder in the machine.

With BOTH of these, when I am teaching somebody new to run my press, I take a piece of berdan brass I have and feed it in the machine and let them feel it. I then take a normal piece of spent brass and let them feel it when the swage rod crushes the primer. AFTER I started doing that, I dont think we have had any blown up primers since.

I'll disagree that you have to push through it if you feel that you're about to swage a stuck primer. You can back out of that situation -- but you'll need to clear all brass from the rotated tool head and may need to move it back one station/discard a piece/dump the powder out -- I can usually back it off enough to remove the piece at the swaging station, then complete the down stroke to seat the primer on the case at the priming station. If you opt to do that ODDS ARE THE CASE THAT WAS FILLED WITH POWDER DURING THE MANIPULATION WILL HAVE AN OVERCHARGE IN IT! You must weigh that charge, and possibly set that case aside to be manually reinserted at the end of the session.

In either case -- if you get stopped by something like this, make sure YOU CHECK EVERY CASE ON THE SHELL PLATE TO ENSURE THAT CRITICAL PROCESSES WERE COMPLETED CORRECTLY.

[rjacobs]

I can usually back it off enough to remove the piece at the swaging station, then complete the down stroke to seat the primer on the case at the priming station. If you opt to do that ODDS ARE THE CASE THAT WAS FILLED WITH POWDER DURING THE MANIPULATION WILL HAVE AN OVERCHARGE IN IT! You must weigh that charge, and possibly set that case aside to be manually reinserted at the end of the session.

Thats why I simply opt to push through it vs. backing off. push through it, pull that piece of brass, and continue running. I then take those pieces of brass and will punch the primer on my single stage and if the primer pocket looks ok, I will generally put that piece of brass back into the hopper. Easier for me to do that(push through the primer) vs. having to stop and check powder in the one case, did the primer seat in the case and if I run the handle again will I set off a primer, is the bullet seated correctly, crimped correctly, etc... It also can be a pain to get the shell plate to not advance and to actually back up depending on where the advance pawl is sitting.

[Nik Habicht]

I can usually back it off enough to remove the piece at the swaging station, then complete the down stroke to seat the primer on the case at the priming station. If you opt to do that ODDS ARE THE CASE THAT WAS FILLED WITH POWDER DURING THE MANIPULATION WILL HAVE AN OVERCHARGE IN IT! You must weigh that charge, and possibly set that case aside to be manually reinserted at the end of the session.

Thats why I simply opt to push through it vs. backing off. push through it, pull that piece of brass, and continue running. I then take those pieces of brass and will punch the primer on my single stage and if the primer pocket looks ok, I will generally put that piece of brass back into the hopper. Easier for me to do that(push through the primer) vs. having to stop and check powder in the one case, did the primer seat in the case and if I run the handle again will I set off a primer, is the bullet seated correctly, crimped correctly, etc... It also can be a pain to get the shell plate to not advance and to actually back up depending on where the advance pawl is sitting.

I used to push through it and chuck the piece of brass -- right up until I had to call Dillon to order a new main shaft for the 1050. Yep -- that's right, I broke one doing that.....

And was once again reminded that sometimes a soft touch beats brute force.....