XL 650 - cases sometimes catching on resizing die

[bozrdang]

I am reloading 9mm on a XL 650 and have been experiencing an issue where the top of my cases sometimes catch on the resizing die. This can be very subtle and the case is deflected up into the die while stroking the machine or it can literally stop the press. It appears as though the case is pushed into the shell plate as far as it can go but the cases are slightly tilted outward away from the center of the press and not aligned such as to go straight up into the die. All l I have to do is gently tilt the top of the case towards the center of the press and it enters the resizing die without issue.

I have made sure the shell plate is tight enough to eliminate any wobble and I've made sure the that rod the moves the "case pusher block" (not sure what it's really called) is set so that the pusher is not restricted from going all the way in. I have noticed the "case pusher block" has a fair amount of wobble on the rail it rides on. I'm not sure if that is normal or not.

Anyone else have this issue or know how to solve it?

Edited November 28, 2015 by bozrdang

[Sarge]

Loosen the die and run brass up into it then tighten. See how that does before we explore further.

[bozrdang]

I meant to add that I tried that also. It was one of the last things I tried.

[Sarge]

OK so brass is fully inserted into the plate? It's not getting drawn back by the plastic ram gizmo. That happens a lot if it gets gunked up with lube etc. Use a qtip and some cleaner to clean the face really well. Where on die is it catching exactly? If its to one side or the other then it's a little out of alignment. How does primer station line up? What brand of Die? This usually happens with other than Dillon dies but is still usually not a problem. If it's a Dillon die something is seriously screwy because of the huge radiused mouth.

[bozrdang]

I didn't think to check for gunk on the plastic ram. I'll look into that. It looks as though the case is going into the shell plate as far as it can go. Even when the case goes into the die without any felt interference, you can see that the case straightens as it goes in.

I am using Dillon dies and the case catches on the other most edge of the die. The edge furthest away from the shell plate bolt. The primers seem to line up fine and I don't have any problems seating them except for the occasional S&B case.

[yoshidaex]

#5 shell plate and #3 locator pins installed?

[Just4FunLP]

I have the same issue.

First I noticed that if I concentrated on keeping the handle pushed all the way back while inserting the bullet it seemed to get better, but didn't solve the problem 100%.

Next I started brushing off the stray powder and spinning the cases a few times to help clean out the grooves. I do this whenever I reload primers. This seemed to help even more.

Recently I switched from a finer powder to WSF which seemed to dramatically reduce the stray powder thing quite a bit, and the machine seemed to run smoother. In fact I ran 500 last night and I didn't even think to brush or spin my cases.

All this helps, but it's still not 100%.

Edited November 28, 2015 by Just4FunLP

[BritinUSA]

How old is the brass? Too many reloads will eventually reduce the rim of the case so it can wobble a little even if the shell plate is not loose. If the brass wobbles no matter what, then try putting a couple of washers on the right side of the press so it leans (very slightly) to the left.

[Sarge]

I didn't think to check for gunk on the plastic ram. I'll look into that. It looks as though the case is going into the shell plate as far as it can go. Even when the case goes into the die without any felt interference, you can see that the case straightens as it goes in.

I am using Dillon dies and the case catches on the other most edge of the die. The edge furthest away from the shell plate bolt. The primers seem to line up fine and I don't have any problems seating them except for the occasional S&B case.

I would look at the shell plate and see if one or more of the cut outs is gunked up or damaged which won't allo the case all the way in. Then finally call Dillon. The plate or another part could be out of spec. On mine there is no tilt as the case feeds into the die. It seems to be pretty well centered.

[AzShooter]

I had a small problem with my cases coming in sideways and wouldn't go into the shell plate.

Called Dillon and in 5 minutes they were able to help me. Glad they work on Saturdays.

[TANFARM]

I had the exact same problem on station1....I had to reach in and adjust the brass as to properly align it with the shell plate and the die.

What a pain.....my solution...I got a new 9 mm shellplate...adjusted it properly...and the adjusted the die as close to the shell plate as possible without actually making contact.

This seems to have solved my problem...don't ask me why.

I clean the shellplate on a regular basis and make sure my brass does not have extractor damage from previous firing.

Please let us know how you solve your problem....it was a major pai there for awhile.

One nice thing about the 650...... You gotta "feel " it...it will defiantly tell you if something is amiss.....and I believe I've done some stuff to create my own problems......keep us posted!!!

[Pat Miles]

Check the timing between the shell plate and the case insert slide. The case insert slide should be pushing the case into the cutout of the shell plate on time and cleanly. If it is pushing the case into the shell plate BEFORE the cutout is in place, the case insert slide which is powered by the case insert slide spring, will slam the case into the cutout hard and the case will rebound back out a bit where it will not enter the resizing die smoothly and sometimes will be crushed.

[bozrdang]

I've check everything you guys suggested and everything looks good. I am using the correct shell plate and pins, I removed the shell plate and inspected and cleaned the grooves that accept the case, I inspected the face of the ram for grease and gunk and it was clean and the timing looks perfect. Tested some cases after all that and I can still see them tilting inward while they are entering the resizing die.

I guess I'll have to put in a call to Dillon and see what they have to say about it.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

[Sarge]

That's what I would do. Keep in mind they prefer you call while sitting at your press.

[Miranda]

weeeeee!

lots of causes.

for my solution I switched to a lee decapping/sizing die.

the RCBS die would baulk at about 1 in 20.

before I did that... I made sure the shellplate was clean and wobble free.

... uh, If you size a case that has been through the powder expander, it may need 'guidance.'

[sarnburg]

weeeeee!

lots of causes.

for my solution I switched to a lee decapping/sizing die.

the RCBS die would baulk at about 1 in 20.

before I did that... I made sure the shellplate was clean and wobble free.

... uh, If you size a case that has been through the powder expander, it may need 'guidance.'

I had the same problem. Called Dillon their first question was what dies are you using. I was using the EGW U-die, switched to a Dillon die and problem went away.

Scott

[Sarge]

weeeeee!

lots of causes.

for my solution I switched to a lee decapping/sizing die.

the RCBS die would baulk at about 1 in 20.

before I did that... I made sure the shellplate was clean and wobble free.

... uh, If you size a case that has been through the powder expander, it may need 'guidance.'

I had the same problem. Called Dillon their first question was what dies are you using. I was using the EGW U-die, switched to a Dillon die and problem went away.

Scott

I run a udie at 1200 rounds an hour on my 650 with no tilt or other issues. That sounds like a "company line" answer. But in the end it's whatever works for each of us

[BeerBaron]

yeah I run lee sizing dies on my 650 on all toolheads. and in fact one toolhead had 2 lee sizing dies (size+decap at station one, size with pin removed at S2, powder S3, seat S4, crimp S5).

I have zero problems with brass hitting the die, or not centering in the die or any other problem related to that die. I average 100 rounds loaded between 4-6min. lets say 5 min average which is also right on 1200 per hour.

so my assertion would be if there's a problem it's not with the die. switching to the dillon die with it's larger mouth and not sizing as low on the case may mask the problem but it's not solving the root cause. I'd be looking at the usual culprits:

timing and distance travelled of the case insertion slide into S1

any damage or gunk on the case pusher slide
any damage on the station one locator

enough grease packed under the station 1 locator

check you're using the correct station 1 locator

check shell plate cut outs for damage or manufacturing defects

make sure die is centered (as per sarges instruction, loosen it off, run a case up then tighten back down)

also make sure the other dies are centered too

check shell plate tension

check platform alignment (possibly request the platform alignment tool and perform a re-alignment of the platform).

check toolhead for any damage to the threads of any manufacturing issues

That's about all I can think of that could cause this problem. A die like the lee with less chamfer and a very straight entry may show up the problem. but the problem isn't the die. the problem is mis-alignment at station one.

[TightLines]

I've also experienced this problem recently. Haven't tried since I tightened the shell plate down a bit though.

[Just4FunLP]

enough grease packed under the station 1 locator

BeerBaron

As I mentioned earlier I've had the same issue. Keeping the grooves in my shell plate clean seems to help, but even when everything is perfect the cases tend to lean outward just a little.

You mentioned grease under the station 1 locator. I didn't know there was any grease under this. Does this lift it up a bit?

[Sarge]

enough grease packed under the station 1 locator

BeerBaron

As I mentioned earlier I've had the same issue. Keeping the grooves in my shell plate clean seems to help, but even when everything is perfect the cases tend to lean outward just a little.

You mentioned grease under the station 1 locator. I didn't know there was any grease under this. Does this lift it up a bit?

Mostly dampens vibration but you could I guess have too much?

[BeerBaron]

Yes there should be a decent amount of grease packed under the s1 locator. It helps dampen vibration and may help with this problem.

[bozrdang]

Finally had a chance to call Dillon while they were open and they weren't any help. They said if it's only happening once in a while, it's not a machine problem and probably just a result of slightly different sized brass. They guy also said machines aren't perfect and it's to be expected to have a hang up every once in a while.

I checked the grease under locator 1 and it looks pretty light. I'll try adding some more and see if that helps.

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[shooterDrew]

Finally had a chance to call Dillon while they were open and they weren't any help. They said if it's only happening once in a while, it's not a machine problem and probably just a result of slightly different sized brass. They guy also said machines aren't perfect and it's to be expected to have a hang up every once in a while.

I checked the grease under locator 1 and it looks pretty light. I'll try adding some more and see if that helps.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

I've had this issue since I got my 650 last year. Sometimes it's very infrequent and sometimes it's 5 out of 10. Very frustrating. I chalk it up to me using it the cheapest possible brass (range pick ups). If I was buying new brass and still having this problem I would not be satisfied till it was fixed.

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[hceuterpe]

What brand dies, and what brand cases? Do you sort by headstamp? Do you lube your 9mm first?

By chance, did you buy your 650 in 9mm from the get go or do you load rifle at all? It's reversible depending on which you load. I recall watching a video that reversed the two, and I had feeding issues...

Also with everything Dillon factory (lots of people sells aftermarket parts related to that shellplate indexing), if I recall, there was a tight margin on the center bolt for the shellplate and set screw between too tight such that it no longer indexes smooth, to being too loose.