Walk thru confusion

[CHA-LEE]

I don't understand the "Develop a contingency plan" step. You either pick a plan that you can succeed in executing or you don't. If you are picking a stage plan that you have a low probability of executing successfully then you are picking the wrong plan.

Its hard enough to program a single stage plan properly much less a "Backup Contingency Plan". Why make it harder than it needs to be?

[pjb45]

CHALEE, I like shooting single stack. So if I blow a shot, I need to know its consequences; sooner reload, slow down, whatever. I want to adapt a change in circumstances.

Some of our stages are not straight forward with shots available from different areas so again it helps me determine my game plan and any changes if needed. If a called shot and it is not what I needed then I have a make up shot. This could put to 'slide lock' so I can either shoot to slide lock for the remaining arrays or reload, drop reload to make sure I have 9 rounds going into the next array.

For example: a recent stage of mine had 10 mini-poppers and 10 targets, all with hard cover of NS. No one survived the stage without a miss or extra shot, including master class, and/open shooters.

I can see your point if I was shooting Open or Limited but Production/L10/SS contingency plans make sense.

[CHA-LEE]

pjb45> Your example stage is a perfect example of picking a proper strategy or not for the shooting conditions. If there are a bunch of difficult shots to make then why paint yourself into a corner by expecting to shoot everything 1 for 1 verses simply building some padding into your stage plan and do an extra reload or two so you have more ammo to work with? Using a SINGLE stage plan that gives you some wiggle room to screw up and not shoot the gun dry will always end up in a more consistent and usually better overall result than picking a more risky plan then trying to deploy a backup plan while doing the "Where's waldo" dance in the middle of the stage run.

It really does not matter how many rounds you have in the gun. If you are picking a stage strategy that is too risky, you are making the wrong strategy plan. Making a backup plan to justify a risky plan does not fix making the first strategy mistake either. Just like wood working, measure twice and cut once. Not buy twice as much wood so you have double the chance of screwing it up.

[Nimitz]

When I first started shooting USPSA I had a lot of trouble will long range steel and Texas stars. My mentor taught me to build my stage plan around my current abilities, not on what I " should be able to do". When I would run across a stage with a 15 yd Texas star I would never plan that as a 5-6 shot piece of the stage. Initially I would always plan that as requiring 2 full mags and if my fundamentals were better that day I'd reload with a mag that had a lot more bullets in it then my stage plan which assumed it would be empty. My stage plan now for that same stage would be 6 shots since I have demonstrated many times in matches that at 15 yds & in I can clear a TS at 5/5 ....

I've trained with 3 of what most consider to be the top instructors/shooters in our sport over the last couple of years & every one of them has said what he said: develop a single plan that you know you can execute and just shoot that ..... Contingency planning makes things way too complex ...

[pjb45]

Ok, I did not communicate effectively. Let me set some other context. For relatively inexperience shooters, it can be confusing to plan a good strategy much less execute it.

It all comes down to three universal concepts: Process(plan), execution, results. Contingency planning to me means that during the execution phase there is a boo-boo that may impact the results, so what is the potential remediation????

Real life example: WSSSC- shooting a stage with Nils. Nils had to burn an extra shoot early in the stage. Each subsequent shooting area/target array was 8 shots. So he had a choice: he could go to slide lock at each location or load a mag and drop it and load another so he had nine rounds in his gun. His contingency plan was to load, drop and load so he would not have to go to slide lock.

I have found that on high accuracy targets if I pin the trigger, my accuracy goes way up, sometimes this epiphany does not reveal itself until and have started shooting. So when I find my shot calling remiss during a stage, I will change techniques of trigger control to bring back my accuracy.

My plan stays the same, but I adjust my execution.

Edited January 6, 2016 by pjb45

[Posvar]

This is hard for me as I am new but does get better each match. Confidence is coming up some what. Already had my first DQ out of the way in October which was good I guess. Planning is coming a little more second nature. Breaking it down as explained above has helped.

[9x45]

For confusion (mind) stages, there will always be positions that you must go to in order to see a particular target, ie, no other place to get it from. So figure the positions first, then see how many more targets you can get while you are stopped there, then shoot everything left while moving in-between the must go to positions. Plus for a newbie, it's better to shoot the same target twice versus a failure and 2 mikes.

[turbopower18]

All it takes is one lefty to screw up the whole rotation on walk-thru. I myself like to put my earpro in so i cant hear the Production counting shots aloud and focus. First walk for me is finding all of the targets. After a first quick pass i start counting positions at where i can engage the most targets from one location and count my shooting locations. Lastly i figure out according to round count as to where im not doing a standing reload. Then the timer sounds and i throw it all out the window and just blast away! lol

[MemphisMechanic]

I seem to be do pretty good until I see a more advanced shooter do it a different way than i imagined I would and poof my plan disappears. Very aggravating!! What is the best way to get around that or should I embrace the advanced shooters method?

First you need to know why they shot it the way they did. If they are highly skilled at shooting on the move due to nonstop practice and you are new, or they went the opposite direction than your plan because they're left handed...

See where I'm going with this?

[LoadMakeReady]

This is something I need to work on myself . I'm somewhat new to Uspsa this year so my plan is to not overthink and just go with it . I figured the more I watch the more I'll learn over time .

[L3324temp]

It does get easier with experience. In the beginning I just focused on a plan that would give me the best chance of not forgetting a target. As time went on it got easier to plan the most efficient way to shoot it and where I should reload.

[Jmob50]

I'll agree that it does get easier with experience. For the most part, the more experienced shooters are going to plan similar runs through a stage so it doesn't hurt to watch them and try to figure out why they chose a certain path. Just be sure to watch someone shooting the same division as you. A L10, SS or Prod shooter would plan a completely different run than an Open shooter would. Also, do NOT change your plan right before you shoot. If the shooter before you burns it down with a completely different plan than yours I wouldn't change if I were you. You need to burn your plan in and be able to go over it while they are reseting your stage. Also, consider the fact that sometimes you may go to war with a piece of steel and possibly change your reload points. Again, more experience will make this easier to manage but you'll still have moments of complete confusion every now and then.

[pskys2]

Lot of good points made.

But remember "a bad plan done well, will beat a good plan done poorly". The more complicated the stage, the simpler your attack needs to be.

Even if it means doing an extra reload or taking a tougher shot because it's easier to see.

Until you feel comfortable with stretching your limits, try to break the course down to something you can remember.

[seadog_99]

In my experience it seems to get easier as you get more competition under your belt. The more that you make the other items you're doing reflex (draw, reloads, moving) the more brain power you'll have to spare for stage execution.

[Nightops]

The more options and variables you try to put in your stage plan, the greater the chance of it falling apart when the buzzer goes off. Break the stage up based on all the positions you need to get to for the targets, break those positions up in chunks based on your division, reload as necessary. When you start getting into if's and maybe's, you are usually out-planning your ability, or just over complicating the plan.

[bradsteimel]

I wish i had an answer for you! I've been shooting competitively for 4+ years... and some stages just plain baffle me. At times i'll walk up to a stage and the breakdown just seems to present itself to me, even on some difficult stages (especially when i'm shooting well). Then other times, i don't know if it's my mindset, how i'm shooting, or maybe my general frustration level, but i seem to go brain-dead while walking the stage... and can't even come up with a bad plan?!? That's when i resort to asking another shooter at my level or above, and hope they'll bail me out.

After a stage like that, i just hope there are lots of shooters ahead of me so i can mentally rehearse the stage dozens of times before i step to then line. There's nothing worse the having to start a stage while you're still not sure how to run it!

[Nick179]

I had this problem too my first few matches. I started by counting all the paper and steal targets. Then I would go to the start position and look out and see how many targets I could see from there. Then I would break them in to 2,3,4,5 target groups. Shooting production. Then I would plan my reloads. Then I would walk through 1/4 speed then 1/2 speed then 3/4 speed. By that time I had found any mistakes or FTE areas. Then a few more times at 1/2 speed to just seal the deal in my head. I still make mistakes but I'm more confident when the buzzer goes off and that's what matters to me.   

Sometimes you need to just back away like 20 feet from the start signal and look around, maybe you'll find something you missed or a "short cut"

Edited September 13, 2016 by Nick179

[Nick179]

Double posted my bad. 

Edited September 13, 2016 by Nick179

[MemphisMechanic]

On 9/24/2015 at 11:56 PM, Tmcfarland said:

I seem to be do pretty good until I see a more advanced shooter do it a different way than i imagined I would and poof my plan disappears. Very aggravating!! What is the best way to get around that or should I embrace the advanced shooters method?

 A mediocre plan executed perfectly always beats an excellent plan that's a total train wreck.

I just keep telling myself that, and use the knowledge that he's shaving a full second or two off of my time as motivation to really sprint from position to position and get all the alphas I can.

[Glock26Toter]

If you are in the initial planning stages and haven't rehearsed it much than it's OK to change to the plan you see someone else do.  If you have already rehearsed it several times then stick to your plan and analyze whether it was a good or bad choice later.  The way I see it, if it's before the match starts or within the first minute of the 5 minute walk though it's OK to change.  The remaining 4 minutes of the walk through needs to spent rehearsing YOUR PLAN.  Whether it was influenced prior to that or not. Own it and rehearse it.   

This is where video comes in handy.  Video yourself.  When you see a more advanced shooter that you know has a different (better?) plan video him too.  Compare and contrast later.  

[johnbu]

On 09/12/2015 at 8:37 AM, wav3rhythm said:

Always pick a simple plan that you can execute well. Here is what I do during walk through:

1. Figure out where all the targets are - don't forget a target.

2. Figure out where you have to go.

3. If you see a target from multiple shooting positions, always take the easy shot.

4. Figure out what order you want to shoot them in.

5. Run through the stage in your head 25 times before you step up to the line.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I still get stuck on step 1.  when there are butt loads of targets, seen from multiple areas and then ones ONLY seen from one spot I have confusion mixing them up.  it's common for me to need the whole 5 min just to find the targets and I still can't get the spacial relationships understood.  very frustrating. 

 

[GregJ]

- First time through, walk behind the targets to count them. This is usually easier than trying to count them as you walk through, at least for the larger more complicated stages. This should only take once.

- Targets that can be seen from multiple areas, find an identifying mark on the target to help differentiate it from the others. It could be shorter or taller than the ones next to it, odd patch of patches, mark on the stick, next to barrel, etc.

- Then walk through counting the targets you will engage from each position. e.g. move to position A, engage the 3 targets plus the one next to the barrel, move and reload to position B, etc, etc, etc  Repeat for each walk-though until you have it burned in.

[johnbu]

I'll have to try those things, but there is only 1 match left until May.

[alucardus]

When there is an especially complex stage where I can shoot multiple targets from multiple positions I always go with the plan that comes to my mind first as this is the one I will default to should I space mid stage. The 2 most important things to do during a walk through are count rounds and plan reload. So find out the round count for the stage and as you are walking through mentally shoot the targets and count. If you get to the end and your count doesn't match the stage rounds you know you messed up. If it does match then you know you got them all and didn't engage anything twice. While you are doing this the first time pick your reload target or targets depending on how many times you have to reload. This is a target that after engaging you will reload your mags. I always pick a specific target rather than a position as it helps me be more exact on my plan. Now repeat your walk through count with a mental reload on your target as many times as you need until you are confident.

 

Remember once your given the make ready command the stage is yours and you can take a final walk through before you load.

[DASR4]

it get easier the more matches that you shoot. Whenever you get a plan figured out stick to it