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Shooting too fast


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Long story as usual so here's the question: how do you go fast without rushing, or what do you do to stay calm and keep yourself from tensing up?

I shot at my first steel match last night. I didn't think I'd be competitive. so when it was my turn I just went up to the line and shot how I knew I could. My first stage was basically perfect - 3 clean rounds under 3 seconds. I was surprised and could hardly believe it. But it got to my head and I rushed through the next stages, thinking I could 'finish strong' and started missing. It was a total waste of the first stage and everything I had learned and been practicing.

I was figuring out I needed to slow down, and someone told me "slow down to speed up". I did that, and obviously started getting more hits with less shots. But I couldn't get back to that place I was in before shooting the first round. It was hard to let myself slow down or be relaxed once I heard that buzzer.

I noticed this last Sunday too - after I shot a stage or two I got 'comfortable' and tried to be faster. My draw got messy and I both missed engaging in targets and shot from the wrong position.

So how does one deal with this kind of thing?

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That affects all of us. :surprise:

The most difficult part of shooting competitively is to make the

speed appropriate to the difficulty of the shot.

That's where Wyatt Earp would say something like: "Shoot

slowly, as fast as you can".

What's great about competitive shooting is The Pressure we feel

when we shoot to shoot Faster. Thin line between shooting too

fast, and just right.

The worst is Man on Man, where you can see out of the corner of

your eye, that the guy you're shooting against is one target ahead

of you - now you HAVE to Speed Up, right? :devil:

No simple answer except "call each shot" - watch the sights, trigger

control - the basics. :cheers:

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Thanks Jack,

"No simple answer except "call each shot" - watch the sights, trigger control - the basics. "
I think that's exactly it. I was reading another thread about improving the draw, and someone pointed out that trying to go faster when you don't know what to improve on is just building bad habits. Then I realized I don't really know the basics, other than a few tidbits I picked up here and there. So trying to go faster just got messy because I didn't know what to do faster.
I saw we have a technique/skill forum or something like that. I feel like the right thing to do is just be deliberate with whatever I'm doing while shooting, and spend time learning the basics of each different part (draw, aim, fire, transition, move, reload, etc). Maybe I would then be aware what part is slowing me down, or what part can be improved upon, etc.
What does 'call each shot' mean?
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You can call where the shot went when you see where the sights were at

the moment they start rising - from recoil.

The sights meander a bit when we're about to break a shot, but if you

see where they were when the gun went off (sights lifted), you'll know

where the bullet went (call the shot).

Not as easy as it sounds ... I'm still working on it. Good luck. :cheers:

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Thanks - I definitely noticed that when I was rushing I lost the sight picture.

I started digging around in the Techniques forum, and from the FAQ's I got to reading about Brian's book. Some parts might be above my head but I think it covers exactly what I'm after - kind of the mental aspect of shooting. I'm going to get it.

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I dealt with my own ill advised rushing by going away from rushing and focusing my effort on hitting all A's and knocking down all of the steel. It makes sense to me to focus first on accuracy and then build the speed in small increments. This is not the only way to do things but it's the model I'm trying to follow.

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going away from rushing and focusing on hitting all A's. It makes sense to me to focus first on accuracy and then build the speed in small increments.

In a field course of fire, we spend much more time doing other things (draw, moving, reloading, etc)

than we do actually shooting. :ph34r:

Always see beginners shoot Very Fast and do everything else in slow motion.

You've seen the beginners who maintain a two hand hold when they're "running"

20 feet - like a nursing home shuffle. :surprise:

Should be the other way around - do everything else like your tail is on fire,

run fast, reload fast) and

shoot deliberately enough to ensure that you hit the target. :cheers:

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going away from rushing and focusing on hitting all A's. It makes sense to me to focus first on accuracy and then build the speed in small increments.

In a field course of fire, we spend much more time doing other things (draw, moving, reloading, etc)

than we do actually shooting. :ph34r:

Slow people spend much more time doing the other things, the quick people do not. I just watched a video of John Harma shooting all of the stages in the process of winning Production division in the 2009 Northern Arizona Classic. He did the non-shooting things so fast that much of his time was occupied by shooting.

In case you don't know who John Harma is, he is a GM in 3 divisions and M in 2 others. http://uspsa.org/uspsa-classifer-lookup-results.php?Submit=Lookup&number=TY24854

At my club, I'm watching younger beginners (I'm about 2.67 times older than most other beginners) try to win by shooting very fast without first building a foundation of accuracy. One guy I'm thinking of does pretty well at the club matches but is still unclassified despite having been to a USPSA all-classifier and having shot at least one other USPSA match. He sometimes presses the trigger faster than his skills allow and his scores are getting destroyed by Mikes and hitting no-shoots. He can move fast, reload fast, etc. Those things aren't helping him get on the map. When he sorts out the accuracy thing, he'll be on his way.

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  • 4 weeks later...

It simply takes a lot of real, live fire practice to know just how fast you can shoot a particular size target at a certain distance. All of that practice and match experience will help you relax when it counts. Dry fire, books and Forums are great tools, but none of them can replace the real thing.

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I shot another steel match today, and of course I was shooting too fast again. One thing I realized is that I was mis-judging the difficulty of the shot. The targets are not that far away so it seems like I should be able to hit them with with a fuzzy front sight. But the reality is I need the sights in focus. Every time I miss I see the white dot, but when I pay more attention to it the dot is in the top left corner of the notch.

When my sights are in focus I get hits. My scores tell me that it's faster to fire less shots and make hits, but my buzzer blank mind doesn't want to believe it for some reason. So I think you're absolutely right - I need to keep shooting, and I need to forget about the scores and just build experience. I don't know what that's so hard to do when a buzzer is involved but I will keep working at it.

Despite some of the crap I shot tonight, I did have my fastest round ever. It was only one round but I was relaxed, and it was after a crappy round so I didn't have any expectations. It was nice to see the low time (5 shots in 2.89 seconds) and hopefully it will help reinforce the 'slow is fast' thing. We'll see!

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A GM once told me Slow is Smooth, Smooth is Fast.

This is absolutely right. I come from motorcycle racing and "Slow is Smooth, Smooth is Fast" as our mantra. Practice the fundamentals until muscle memory takes over. Speed will come when you stop having to think about what you are doing.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I come from a skiing background. At a certain pace, you are in control, and its second nature like chac mentioned. Once you exceed your comfort level/speed you lose control, and bad habits come creeping back and that muscle memory is toast. I've seen people lose control slow quickly in an instant, that they have a massive yard sale and injure themselves and get hauled out.

Ironically, I consider skiing to be far more dangerous...

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unfortunately this longstanding & well meaning advice is not really accurate ...

Why do you think you can learn to be fast by shooting slow? All you'll ever learn to do is shoot slow ....

You must train yourself to see faster, not slow down your shooting ....

Of course it would take about 5 pages worth of typing to try & explain that last statement so ...

The best advise I can give you is to take a class with Steve Anderson or Ben Stoeger. They will put you on the correct path to shooting greatness and after the 2 day class you'll have enough stuff to work on in training for the next year .... it will literally save you years of frustration trying to figure out stuff on your own. And you won't be spending any time on shooting slow as a method to learning to shoot accuracy at speed .... :)

Edited by Nimitz
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A GM once told me Slow is Smooth, Smooth is Fast.

He was wrong. Slow is slow. It's slow in motorcycle racing too.

Smooth *can* be fast, OTOH, done correctly, fast shooting can *feel* slow, if you're just relying on your vision. The thing is, you can't shoot with any consistency any faster than you can see, so it's not productive to rely on anything else but your vision.

For shooting, keep aiming the gun until the sights lift.

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The GM was not wrong because saying "slow is smooth" is not the same as saying "slow is fast." No need to issue a correction in the form of "slow is slow," but it is popular to do so.

I believe the idea with that old adage is to stay smooth as you speed up. You can practice smoothness slowly and then you can accelerate. Max Michel, one of the very fastest, advocates practicing a lot at 50% to 70% of full speed.

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The GM was not wrong because saying "slow is smooth" is not the same as saying "slow is fast." No need to issue a correction in the form of "slow is slow," but it is popular to do so.

I believe the idea with that old adage is to stay smooth as you speed up. You can practice smoothness slowly and then you can accelerate. Max Michel, one of the very fastest, advocates practicing a lot at 50% to 70% of full speed.

Ok, maybe the GM was bad at math, and likes catchy phrases.

If slow is smooth and smooth is fast, then by transitivity, slow is fast. but we know that is wrong.

It would be more accurate to say 'not hurrying or rushing or trying is smooth'. In a way, not trying to go fast is fast.

I don't know what max advocates, but if he actually does suggest practicing at 50% speed, he is the only one I have heard suggest that. It seems pretty bizarre to me. My experience has been that if you do speed practice as fast as you possibly can, it will also speed up everything you do when you're not rushing, only you'll be smooth and consistent when not rushing.

Edited by motosapiens
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He advocates that to learn perfect technique .... Then you learn to increase your hand speed using that perfect technique ......

hmm. interesting theory. What defines 'perfect' technique? I would say it's the technique that is fastest and most consistent, which will probably be the most efficient movements, which will probably be discovered through speed and repetition.

But maybe he means 50-75% effort level (which seems more like 85-90% speed). I don't see any value in doing reloads at half speed, but I see alot of value in adding .2 to the best par time for the first few mins, then knocking it down my .1 every minute or two. If I go .2 slower than my all-out reload speed, I can pretty much nail them every time without thinking, and I can make sure I'm grabbing the magazine just right, looking at the magwell, getting my grip right, etc...

Edited by motosapiens
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I believe the intent of the addage is: getting (your mind) ahead of yourself (your body) can and will slow you down. Slowing down means to keep your mind even with your physical speed.

By getting your mind ahead of your physical capability you send mixed messages to your muscles and they get tense (not smooth), then bad shots and jerky motions happen and slow you down.

I came to this conclusion after reading parts of Brian's book, and by observing my own actions/behaviors throughout the day and while shooting. I am generally 'ahead of myself' and thinking about the next thing before I finish whatever it is I'm doing, especially shooting under monitored time.

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He advocates that to learn perfect technique .... Then you learn to increase your hand speed using that perfect technique ......

hmm. interesting theory. What defines 'perfect' technique? I would say it's the technique that is fastest and most consistent, which will probably be the most efficient movements, which will probably be discovered through speed and repetition.

But maybe he means 50-75% effort level (which seems more like 85-90% speed). I don't see any value in doing reloads at half speed, but I see alot of value in adding .2 to the best par time for the first few mins, then knocking it down my .1 every minute or two. If I go .2 slower than my all-out reload speed, I can pretty much nail them every time without thinking, and I can make sure I'm grabbing the magazine just right, looking at the magwell, getting my grip right, etc...

i wouldn't get too hung up on a number ... I think he is saying that you go at a speed which allows you to execute the technique perfectly so you learn the skill at a subconscious level and then, and only then increase hand speed ... how many people do you know that execute bad technqiue but it's ingrained in their subconscious because they've been performing the poor technique thousands of times ...?

If your speed to execute a technqiue perfectly 20 times in a row is .2 secs slower than that's the right speed to go to engrain it in your subconscious ....

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I've actually adopted this technqiue as I am retooling my open surrender draw for Steel Challenge since that is the one thing holding me back in the Open SC division. I need to develop perfect technique if I ever hope to approach a 1 sec draw so that's the first order of business ....

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I didn't think I'd be competitive. so when it was my turn I just went up to the line and shot how I knew I could.

There you go.."when it was my turn I just went up to the line and shot how I knew I could" That's pretty much the ideal match mode. Wouldn't we all like to be there every time. Or, maybe some folks don't know what that is.

I bet at that moment there was no trying, no judging, no slow versus fast, or any of that garbage. You just shot.

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He advocates that to learn perfect technique .... Then you learn to increase your hand speed using that perfect technique ......

hmm. interesting theory. What defines 'perfect' technique? I would say it's the technique that is fastest and most consistent, which will probably be the most efficient movements, which will probably be discovered through speed and repetition.

But maybe he means 50-75% effort level (which seems more like 85-90% speed). I don't see any value in doing reloads at half speed, but I see alot of value in adding .2 to the best par time for the first few mins, then knocking it down my .1 every minute or two. If I go .2 slower than my all-out reload speed, I can pretty much nail them every time without thinking, and I can make sure I'm grabbing the magazine just right, looking at the magwell, getting my grip right, etc...

I am pretty sure I've seen videos where he specifically says to reduce speed for some of the practice. And if I'm not mistaken, a recent FrontSight issue states he tells students to do some of their practice at slower speeds.

I don't think he precludes doing some of the practice at speeds where the shooter is pushing himself.

This is exactly what musicians do -- practice difficult passages at slow speeds on their instruments, building a foundation for when they really push it. They also practice to a point where they can do it faster than they'll need to in a performance.

As for the "perfect technique" thing, I interpret that to mean technique that involves no wasted motion or effort, and supports the best accuracy the shooter is capable of.

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I am pretty sure I've seen videos where he specifically says to reduce speed for some of the practice. And if I'm not mistaken, a recent FrontSight issue states he tells students to do some of their practice at slower speeds.

I don't think he precludes doing some of the practice at speeds where the shooter is pushing himself.

This is exactly what musicians do -- practice difficult passages at slow speeds on their instruments, building a foundation for when they really push it. They also practice to a point where they can do it faster than they'll need to in a performance.

As for the "perfect technique" thing, I interpret that to mean technique that involves no wasted motion or effort, and supports the best accuracy the shooter is capable of.

Doing stuff at less than top speed makes sense. Doing it at half-speed doesn't make sense to me, for shooters or for musicians.

As a former musician, and the son and brother of two professional musicians, it seems to me that most musicians only play slow down enough to execute the technique. But as nimitz astutely pointed out, perhaps it's better to focus on the technique, instead of on the percentage of slowness.

Edited by motosapiens
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