Labradar Chrongraph first impression.

[Daddyman]

Just got mine a couple days ago. I still have to get a SD card for it before I can use it. I'm gonna try and get to the indoor range this weekend (it was -6 out this morning) to give it a try. I'm hoping I'll like it as much as I think I will. The unit appears to be made very well. I opted to get the base with the ball head for it. While it looks very nice, the metal is a little thin a the ball head small. I'll give it a try though.

I'll give a little review after I put it through its paces. I'll only be shooting pistols, no rifles allowed at the indoor range.

[ChuckS]

we used one at the Canadian IPSC Nationals this year, while cool, I think the time delay it has in providing the velocity was annoying. I think for long range rifle use and similar it is useful, but for pistol (unless for long range) I don't see any value at all.

There are some significant differences between an optical chrono and this radar unit. The optical chrono is simply a timer that is started and stopped by the shadow of the projectile over the sensors. So, the delay is simply the time it takes for the software to read the timer value and format the data for the display.

The radar has a huge task on its hands. I have no direct knowledge of the LR but I do understand some things about radar. The LR is reported to be Continuous Wave Doppler Radar. That means that it must detect a slight frequency shift of a received signal relative to the transmitted signal that is broadcast. The power level has to be fairly low to not need to be FCC licensed. That weak signal is sent down range and a very small percentage of it is reflected back by the bullet. So, the LR has to sample the environment and see if there are any slightly shifted signals coming in. Keep in mind that most everything in view of the antenna is reflecting some energy so the signal to noise ration is not all that good. Also, if there is anything moving (fans, etc) in the range, it can produce false targets. (In some cases, this is a good thing, but not here )

The device has to accumulate many samples of the environment, determine if there are any shifted signals for multiple sample periods (sometimes known as a track) and build and report the track. This takes some very serious mathematics and at the price of this device, you are not going to get near real time digital signal processing performance. If you order an F-35 radar from Lockheed, you may get faster reporting, but the price and delivery time is not all that attractive.

There are 2 real advantages to this type of chrono. First of all, ambient light is not an issue. You can use this thing pretty much anywhere*. All of us who have tried to convince the indoor range staff that we need to go downrange to set up some equipment will appreciate this. Secondly, this type of device can actually be calibrated. That is, a known signal can be injected into the device and the velocity calculation can be verified. The timer accuracy and stability of an optical chrono can be measured but there is always some uncertainty in the timer start and stop pulse due to the lighting conditions and reflectivity of the bullet shape.

2 Seconds is worth the wait

This is all conjecture, but probably accurate.

Later,

Chuck

* imagine having chrono built into an actual scoring stage

[9x45]

Are Radar chrono's legal for USPSA?

[ChuckS]

Are Radar chrono's legal for USPSA?

Have you looked in the rule book for chrono specs?

[ecolyer325]

Thanks to this topic, I just put my pre order in for one.

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[9x45]

Yes, I read the following, which only seems to refer to standard chrono's, not radar or magnetic... That's why I asked

Match Chronograph and Equipment Set-up
Chronograph(s):
1. The chronograph(s) must be shielded from the effects of changing sunlight. Setting the chronograph(s) in the shade of a tree, or under a cover which allows a differing amount of sunlight to touch any part of the skyscreens or skyscreen brackets is prohibited. The recommended method for outdoor locations is to use an enclosed “chrono box”. In all locations, the use of either infrared sensors or incandescent lighting provides the most consis-tent, repeatable results.
2. Two chronographs should be used when possible and set up in tandem so both units measure each shot fired.
3. In all cases, the skyscreens must be positioned and spaced per the manufac-turer’s requirements for the chronograph in use. The closest skyscreen must be placed no less than 10 feet from the shooting location.
4. When possible, the chronograph(s) should be run on AC power. If using generator power, the chronograph readings must be monitored for consis-tency. If using battery power, the battery must be changed or recharged as necessary to insure consistent results.
5. Failing these conditions, or in the absence of a chronograph, the match must use each competitor’s declared Power Factor for match scoring.

[9x45]

Ok, Radar chronos have been deemed acceptable by Troy in this months Front Sight.

[PKT1106]

Troy didn't "deem" anything acceptable. There was never a specification on a particular model or manufacturer in the rules. You can use a Shooting Chrony if it is consistent with the calibration gun and ammo.

The first issue I see using the radar chronos is cost. I don't think any Level 2 matches, or level 3s, will pony up the $1200 for two Labradars with accessories. Maybe have a set for Nationals. The second issue is the distance requirement. Will you place the radar at 10 feet and use the muzzle velocity? Or does the radar have small enough measurement increments to show 10 feet?

I would love to see them in use. No more box to lug around. No more spare parts for chronos to keep just in case.

Edited March 30, 2016 by PKT1106

[Dirtchevy841]

I had one in order in the beginning of 2015. They kept pushing back Del date got really sick of their bs cancelled the order almost a year later. For that kind of money they should have a grip on their production time of he product.

[ecolyer325]

I actually put my order in for one mid February of 2016, so less than two months ago, and I just got an email today saying it's ready to ship and just need to confirm my credit card.

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[apdsgt806]

I got a e-mail notice from Midway on the the 18th at approximately 7:40 am that they had them in stock. I immediately placed my order and was informed a few minutes later that my unit would ship that day. Three hours later when I checked the status of my order and they had already sold out at that time. I have been out of town until now and hope to get to the range tomorrow to check it out.

[apdsgt806]

I took mine to the rang today. The weather was windy and cloudy, none of the standard chronographs that I have owned would have worked well, if at all. i fired over 100 rounds, 22LR, 380 Auto and 45 Auto. I had no problem with any of them. I can not say enough good things about it. This is what chronographs should have been all along. Fast and simple set up, no wasting rounds getting the skyscreens set just right, in fact nothing down range to mess with at all. All in all a very pleasant experience.

Edited April 26, 2016 by apdsgt806

[BritinUSA]

If you fire multiple shots quickly can it track them all, or is it necessary to wait for the unit to process each round before firing the next one ?

If it can track multiple shots and catch up after a few seconds then it would be a neat way to chrono shooters at a local match. Just set it up on the classifier stage and you can chrono them as they shoot the stage.

[OneEyedSam]

Got mine last week. Shot 200 rounds using it found that it was very accurate (compared to my CED). Found that if I shot fast one of the rounds would not register. After looking through the manual and contacting LabRadar you have to have at least a 2 second delay between shots.

[Ming the Merciless]

I bought one two months ago when my antique Pact MkIV Chrono finally gave up the ghost. I'm very pleased with the Lab Radar. Setup is so easy compared to conventional sky screens although at one local public range the 100 yard targets are so close together that it does occasionally pick up a shot from an adjacent shooter. I use the same tripod I used with my Pact and an external USB power cell. I've used it with .308, .223, 38 Super, .40 S&W, and 44 Mag, so far it has worked very well with only a couple of missed rounds when I was shooting into the berm in an empty bay without a target so I may not have aimed (chrono or rifle) very well. The only gripes so far, the menus could be better organized/ordered and the Excel data format isn't very convenient, but I just need to fiddle with converting it to match my existing chrono records.

[darkvibe]

These are in stock at midway.

[Boxer1]

Also have the Bags and Plates in stock at the same time for the first time ever.

[kendive]

Any updates on this LabRadar Unit? I have the Green Chrony with printer and the MagentoSpeed V3 and I use both alot. I shoot mostly suppressed and I have alot of PCP airguns from .177 to .50 and all in between. I would most likely need the external mic for airguns and shooting suppressed.

I am really interested in buying this new Radar type chrono but there are still alot of mixed reviews.

[darkvibe]

You can also set the labradar to doppler trigger instead of the regular trigger.  Measured an airgun fine for me. Also measured a potato cannon.  

[bwxmas]

Have had an Oehler for ever.

I received the Labradar, and must say I am impressed.

I am working on some pretty small cases right now, and it does not like to read anything over 3800-3900, and will miss quite a few. Anything below that, and I have had very few misses, and it is handy as all get out. Its a big thumbs up from me, but I won't be getting rid of the Oehler anytime soon. They were both within 10-15fps when I set both up in case anyone was wondering.

This is the only complaint, and its a small one because I dont go over 4000 much, but I really wanted to push this one cartridge to see what I could get out of it.

The Oehler did not miss a single shot. It is still hard to beat when the chips are down, but the Labradar has done everything else I asked, and I know that it is not supposed to pull anything over 4000, but I was hoping it would.

Here is what the final number on the Oehler was. I wrung out everything it had, and no I won't go into loads. I know what I am doing, and do not need for someone to try, and follow. With a picture of 4 shot average. Yes, it was setup 12 ft from muzzle. I have now backed off to a reasonable 4100fps

I will tell you its a CZ 204 ruger, that is accurate as anything I have, even at these speeds.

You might see it on other forums, as I will post my results where there are postings..Big thumbs up, but get a battery pack..