2015 Pro Am Shooting Championship

[gmshtr]

I'm really saddened to hear this. I had hoped that having the new owners there last year would have helped ensure a smoother transition.

Hopefully moving it back to their SC home club will take some of the kinks out. I can say that putting on a match with this kind of track record for the first time can be daunting. I was lucky in that most of the people who attended the first Pro-Am had never experienced the original match in the early 90's (the Colt Pro Shootout).

My door will remain open to help in any way I can. I would encourage the owners to utilize the resources at your disposal...the website is the most invaluable asset you have...half of the registrations I received were website downloads. Secondly, if you intend to use a different scoring software than in years past, run a test match with it...twice! Lastly, if you intend to run a prize table, do it with full force. The biggest downfall of matches is poor pre and post event coordination, and high match fees with minimal prize return. Even if the PASC becomes a trophy match with a raffle-ticket prize table system, the pure shooters who enjoy the format will attend, assuming the entry fee is reasonable.

To my fellow competitors, I hope that you will give them a second chance to nail down the administrative details. The match is inherently the most fun you can have with a pistol...that will take care of itself. Registration, matchbooks, scoresheets, sponsors, shirts, scores, awards, catering, etc, etc...that's the hard part. It took me a couple years to get it perfect (IMO).

I'll be anxiously awaiting the 2016 PASC entry form...I have every intention on attending, as a shooter or in any other capacity that's requested (short of sponsorship!!).

[Capt2045]

Final Scores are up on Practice score and are being sent to the Pro Am web Site

[Magnus DUX]

I see the same incomplete results on Practiscore.

[hab25]

Wow complete fail

[ZackJones]

Secondly, if you intend to use a different scoring software than in years past, run a test match with it...twice!

PractiScore was used to score the SE Pro Am match last year and it worked like a charm. I seriously doubt there's anything wrong with PractiScore. If there were problems using it at this match I'd love to hear what they were.

[Scootertheshooter]

Final Scores are up on Practice score and are being sent to the Pro Am web Site

Please make sure the results are indeed the total FINAL results posted you seem to keep digging yourself into a hole. Posted are not the final results. I wish it were I would have done great

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Edited July 22, 2015 by Scootertheshooter

[bafsu92]

As one of the RO's that worked the match I can see where everyone is coming from but I'd also say don't give up on the new owners so fast. As far as how things were run I have no idea about shooter briefings since I was on my stage waiting for shooters. We got a decent briefing Friday for the staff shoot so I would've expected they did at least that much for the paid shooters. The new owners were really nice people and treated the staff very well. Was it as smooth as a Universal run match at Universal, of course not but less than a third of the staff were made up of those of us who work regularly at Universal so they didn't have the "home range advantage" of knowing how things work there.

I agree as far as the wait for awards, I hung around to 10:00 PM myself just to see how things ended and I'd been there since 6:15 AM. Everyone knows the after-match deal is always like herding cats, Smitty does an exceptional job of this process so those of us that shoot and work at USA are a little spoiled compared to what I've witnessed some other places. I will say if you're going to keep people that long it would be nice to get a realistic estimate of the wait. Sort of like when you go out to eat and they tell you it will be 20 min but it's really closer to an hour. You end up being much more pissed than if they just said it may be close to an hour to start. Hopefully they learned that better communication and a more streamlined prize process would've made a huge difference. As one of the hot, tired and hungry masses I would say if they provided a few coolers of beer and some pizza delivery post match this discussion would be a moot point. Hopefully these things will be fixed the next time because it was a very fun match with some great people and it would be a shame to see it go away.

[9X23Guy]

It would be nice to hear from the new owners, hear their side of things.

[Scootertheshooter]

As one of the RO's that worked the match I can see where everyone is coming from but I'd also say don't give up on the new owners so fast. As far as how things were run I have no idea about shooter briefings since I was on my stage waiting for shooters. We got a decent briefing Friday for the staff shoot so I would've expected they did at least that much for the paid shooters. The new owners were really nice people and treated the staff very well. Was it as smooth as a Universal run match at Universal, of course not but less than a third of the staff were made up of those of us who work regularly at Universal so they didn't have the "home range advantage" of knowing how things work there.

I agree as far as the wait for awards, I hung around to 10:00 PM myself just to see how things ended and I'd been there since 6:15 AM. Everyone knows the after-match deal is always like herding cats, Smitty does an exceptional job of this process so those of us that shoot and work at USA are a little spoiled compared to what I've witnessed some other places. I will say if you're going to keep people that long it would be nice to get a realistic estimate of the wait. Sort of like when you go out to eat and they tell you it will be 20 min but it's really closer to an hour. You end up being much more pissed than if they just said it may be close to an hour to start. Hopefully they learned that better communication and a more streamlined prize process would've made a huge difference. As one of the hot, tired and hungry masses I would say if they provided a few coolers of beer and some pizza delivery post match this discussion would be a moot point. Hopefully these things will be fixed the next time because it was a very fun match with some great people and it would be a shame to see it go away.

Not sure I agree a couple of beers and pizza would have negated this thread. There is still an issue of how the prize table was distributed and scoring concerns. Being hungry I will admit added to the frustration but it doesn't seem that the correct shooters got the correct prizes/ guns/ plaques etc. If I'm completely off on this please correct me

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[hab25]

Communication hasn't been their strong suit

[bafsu92]

As one of the RO's that worked the match I can see where everyone is coming from but I'd also say don't give up on the new owners so fast. As far as how things were run I have no idea about shooter briefings since I was on my stage waiting for shooters. We got a decent briefing Friday for the staff shoot so I would've expected they did at least that much for the paid shooters. The new owners were really nice people and treated the staff very well. Was it as smooth as a Universal run match at Universal, of course not but less than a third of the staff were made up of those of us who work regularly at Universal so they didn't have the "home range advantage" of knowing how things work there.

I agree as far as the wait for awards, I hung around to 10:00 PM myself just to see how things ended and I'd been there since 6:15 AM. Everyone knows the after-match deal is always like herding cats, Smitty does an exceptional job of this process so those of us that shoot and work at USA are a little spoiled compared to what I've witnessed some other places. I will say if you're going to keep people that long it would be nice to get a realistic estimate of the wait. Sort of like when you go out to eat and they tell you it will be 20 min but it's really closer to an hour. You end up being much more pissed than if they just said it may be close to an hour to start. Hopefully they learned that better communication and a more streamlined prize process would've made a huge difference. As one of the hot, tired and hungry masses I would say if they provided a few coolers of beer and some pizza delivery post match this discussion would be a moot point. Hopefully these things will be fixed the next time because it was a very fun match with some great people and it would be a shame to see it go away.

Not sure I agree a couple of beers and pizza would have negated this thread. There is still an issue of how the prize table was distributed and scoring concerns. Being hungry I will admit added to the frustration but it doesn't seem that the correct shooters got the correct prizes/ guns/ plaques etc. If I'm completely off on this please correct me

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No, I'm sure there were some issues with the prizes. I'm just saying when you know there are going to be delays pacifying the crowd ahead of time can alleviate a lot of the issues. I honestly don't know how classes and divisions got mixed up but I did hear them verifying everyone when they checked in the little bit of time I was in there. I think the issue to that lies in no one sanctioning body. The did classification by what you said your USPSA, IPSC or IDPA class was and it seemed to be basically an honor system registration so without a uniformed sanctioning body or a way to really accurately confirm how shooters registered it's hard to say where the blame lies if someone got a D class prize but should've been C class etc. I will say it would've been much smoother to have all the winners listed in the correct order on one sheet of paper so you could work right down one list rather than flipping through multiple pages. I guess they didn't want to take any more time to get out and start the prizes than they already had but that's just speculation. The RO's that I know we're just as in the dark as the shooters as far as the cause and duration of the delay.

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[PatriotMRD]

Assuming that we get notice of next year's dates so that I can bid the vacation slot. I will give them another chance. I like the format. I met some phenomenal people from as far away as Norway (that's you Folke). The ROs were great. I hope they can get things pulled together and not let this die.

[Scootertheshooter]

As one of the RO's that worked the match I can see where everyone is coming from but I'd also say don't give up on the new owners so fast. As far as how things were run I have no idea about shooter briefings since I was on my stage waiting for shooters. We got a decent briefing Friday for the staff shoot so I would've expected they did at least that much for the paid shooters. The new owners were really nice people and treated the staff very well. Was it as smooth as a Universal run match at Universal, of course not but less than a third of the staff were made up of those of us who work regularly at Universal so they didn't have the "home range advantage" of knowing how things work there.

I agree as far as the wait for awards, I hung around to 10:00 PM myself just to see how things ended and I'd been there since 6:15 AM. Everyone knows the after-match deal is always like herding cats, Smitty does an exceptional job of this process so those of us that shoot and work at USA are a little spoiled compared to what I've witnessed some other places. I will say if you're going to keep people that long it would be nice to get a realistic estimate of the wait. Sort of like when you go out to eat and they tell you it will be 20 min but it's really closer to an hour. You end up being much more pissed than if they just said it may be close to an hour to start. Hopefully they learned that better communication and a more streamlined prize process would've made a huge difference. As one of the hot, tired and hungry masses I would say if they provided a few coolers of beer and some pizza delivery post match this discussion would be a moot point. Hopefully these things will be fixed the next time because it was a very fun match with some great people and it would be a shame to see it go away.

Not sure I agree a couple of beers and pizza would have negated this thread. There is still an issue of how the prize table was distributed and scoring concerns. Being hungry I will admit added to the frustration but it doesn't seem that the correct shooters got the correct prizes/ guns/ plaques etc. If I'm completely off on this please correct me

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

No, I'm sure there were some issues with the prizes. I'm just saying when you know there are going to be delays pacifying the crowd ahead of time can alleviate a lot of the issues. I honestly don't know how classes and divisions got mixed up but I did hear them verifying everyone when they checked in the little bit of time I was in there. I think the issue to that lies in no one sanctioning body. The did classification by what you said your USPSA, IPSC or IDPA class was and it seemed to be basically an honor system registration so without a uniformed sanctioning body or a way to really accurately confirm how shooters registered it's hard to say where the blame lies if someone got a D class prize but should've been C class etc. I will say it would've been much smoother to have all the winners listed in the correct order on one sheet of paper so you could work right down one list rather than flipping through multiple pages. I guess they didn't want to take any more time to get out and start the prizes than they already had but that's just speculation. The RO's that I know we're just as in the dark as the shooters as far as the cause and duration of the delay.

If someone wants to lie about their classification that is something they will have to live with and is hard to control. Some issue with not enough GM in their class and receiving more guns then they should came up. That's the Pro Am rules not ours. The placement of shooters in the final results ,wherever they are regardless of classification , seems not to be accurate. This has no bearing on telling the truth about how you registered . Just to be clear I have heard no real issues with the RO's and thought you guys did a great job. It is not your responsibility to inform the shooters what the bleep is taking so long. Someone should have came to the mic and informed us in the 4 hours we sat there. I know Shannon did once which was appreciated but that was it.

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Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Edited July 22, 2015 by Scootertheshooter

[Scootertheshooter]

If someone wants to lie about their classification that is something they will have to live with and is hard to control. Some issue with not enough GM in their class and receiving more guns then they should came up. That's the Pro Am rules not ours. The placement of shooters in the final results ,wherever they are regardless of classification , seems not to be accurate. This has no bearing on telling the truth about how you registered . Just to be clear I have heard no real issues with the RO's and thought you guys did a great job. It is not your responsibility to inform the shooters what the bleep is taking so long. Someone should have came to the mic and informed us in the 4 hours we sat there. I know Shannon did once which was appreciated but that was it.

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[bafsu92]

If someone wants to lie about their classification that is something they will have to live with and is hard to control. Some issue with not enough GM in their class and receiving more guns then they should came up. That's the Pro Am rules not ours. The placement of shooters in the final results ,wherever they are regardless of classification , seems not to be accurate. This has no bearing on telling the truth about how you registered . Just to be clear I have heard no real issues with the RO's and thought you guys did a great job. It is not your responsibility to inform the shooters what the bleep is taking so long. Someone should have came to the mic and informed us in the 4 hours we sat there. I know Shannon did once which was appreciated but that was it.

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Totally agree with you on that. It wasn't even up to Shannon to do that either since he really wasn't any more involved as the rest of us but still cares about it being a good match and everyone being satisfied even if he wasn't running it. A large percentage of the shooters were regulars to marches there And from working matches at USA I know that the first goal is for everyone to have a good time and feel like they get what they pay for or more.

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[pmd]

I think Scootertheshooter was talking about the prize table prior to the order of finish.

[Finbox]

Whats the name of the MD so I can steer clear of future clusters

[Chills1994]

Just stopping by to say I think classifications for this kind of match are stupid.

[itchy]

Except for the first year, which was basically an invitational match, I've shot every ProAm. I followed the match from Tulsa to Frostproof, when USSA had an uncertain future. This year was definitely different than past years.

Let me start off with the good.

I feel that the shooting aspect was very similar to the previous years. Our squad shot both the limited and open matches without having to wait on the squad in front of us. I shot limited on Saturday afternoon, and I believe there were only five squads shooting, so things kept moving. Sunday morning open ran smoothly also, and there was a squad starting on each stage. The stage ROs were very efficient, and I recognized several ROs who have worked the match in the past. In terms of stage design, this was the first year where we had target arrays where a standing reload was pretty much mandatory. But hey, everyone has to shoot the same stages, so it's fair.

Now for the not so good.

As everyone is aware, there was very limited communication about the match. I don't want to rehash what's already been said, but I feel I need to touch on one topic. I requested to be squadded with a couple of local friends. We didn't receive any squadding information until the week before the match. We were flying from Los Angeles on different days, so coordinating rooms, car rental, and travel to and from the range was very difficult without knowing if we were actually able to shoot together.

There was very little information at the shooters' meeting. Scoring needs to be better addressed, at least for the benefit of the new shooters.

Many of the poppers were set up backwards. I brought this to the attention of the stage ROs, but they argued that they were actually correct. The two piece poppers are meant to lean forward against the bolt, and fall away from the shooter when shot. And then there are the forward falling poppers with springs. The springs were meant to be towards the rear, so that the shot popper would compress against the spring, and then fall forward. Everyone who shot the match must have seen the popper (4th from the right) on stage 8, that just wouldn't fall. Well, it was backwards, like several others.

We waited 4 hours for results and there were no updates during the entire time we waited. They used Practiscore, so I had hoped that the results would be compiled more quickly. Even when Phil was running the match, the wait for results was painfully long. He was keeping score on paper and entering them into Excel, but he gave us updates in between. Phil also provided a prize table list, so that kept us distracted.

As others mentioned, the prize and award distribution was a debacle. On the "interim" practiscore results at the end of Saturday, there were 18 "A" class open entries. The rulebook states: "4th place in a class will be awarded if there are 15 or more competitors in that class." I finished 4th A open and was told that there was no plaque for fourth. When I showed the match director the page in the program, he stated that as of a couple weeks ago, there weren't the required number of shooters, so he didn't order a plaque. Then he went on to say that if I wanted a plaque, I could get one if I went to next year's match. Now, I really don't mind that I didn't get a plaque, but I wanted to see if he'd try to make things right.

As for the limited match prize table, I somehow got skipped. I walked up on my own and asked what place they were on, and was allowed to just grab a bag.

The prizes were pretty thin this year. I saw people get bags with just a hat and an extractor, or a hat and a mug, and a few people with AR15 mags. Except for the firearms certificates that were for the top finishers, it appears that the average value of the bags was about $30. We don't always shoot matches for the prizes, but in the past, the awesome prize table made the $270 (open+limited) entry fee, palatable.

As much crap as we gave Phil about the match, it's now apparent how hard he worked to make it successful. I hope the new owners make the necessary adjustments to keep this match afloat.

Seiichi

[gmshtr]

Actually, it was only you who gave me crap about the match Itchy!! HAI!!!!!

あなたは、ラウンド目にいくつかの敬意を！

Edited July 23, 2015 by gmshtr

[PatriotMRD]

For those that haven't noticed the final complete scores are up on the pro-am site.

[gmantwo]

I too worked the match. In fact, as we've done in the past, my two sons and I worked all day Wednesday & Thursday helping set up the stages, paint, clear bays, generally do anything asked to help get the match together. Were not provided lunch either day, even working 7:30-5 both days. In the past, the RO dinner was an opportunity to hand out by ranom draw, a really nice prize to EACH RO in appreciation. This year we each got a shirt and 1 gun was eventually drawn for.

The match itself was as fun as always, but I think they toughened it up a bit too much. Not one single stage was cleared by anyone, including the pro's.

The trouble with the results was mostly caused by them being posted WITHOUT any classes being included. In a match where the prize table is visited by class finish, your standing in your class is essential to know. Really upset me that if they called a winner who wasn't there, they skipped that place finish completely. Should have immediately gone to the next finisher in that class, not skipped it completely.

From what I understand, the new owners have had sponsor trouble running matches in their home state, called 41 companies for sponsorships and got 8. And nothing was said about them at all. No call to thank those that did give. Be sure to get out your match book and heap praise on the 8 who donated.

I hope the match survives, it is the second best match I've ever participated in, and sadly, the best one(The Masters), is now no more because of failing administration issues as well.

As usual, the staff at USA were great, range was awesome, especially with the upgrade of bathrooms and pavillion. Personal thanks to Shannon for taking some of his time at the end of a long hot day to work a bit with my boys on their shooting, that was the highlight of their whole trip.

In order for me to do all we did again, I'll have to see better communication early, and be confident that the owners aren't in over their head again

[gmantwo]

Chills 1994, the reason this match has been so popular, and draws so many shooters of the lower classes, is because of the way the prize table is ran. And that wouldn't be possible at all without classes. All prize tables were ran like this late 80's early 90's, and I think they still should be. The bulk of the money spent on manufacturers parts, guns and related items comes from B-C-D shooters, not the pro squad. Yes, they drive sales by people wanting to shoot what they shoot and emulate their favorite's, but when's the last time they laid out cold hard cash? And I'm not bashing them, they are the reason the game gets the press and recognition we enjoy. Take away the classes and then I'm not competing against others of my class, I'm competing against the top shooters, where I have Zero chance. Do that and I, and lots of others, will stay home

[Folke]

Assuming that we get notice of next year's dates so that I can bid the vacation slot. I will give them another chance. I like the format. I met some phenomenal people from as far away as Norway (that's you Folke). The ROs were great. I hope they can get things pulled together and not let this die.

Hi man, hope you made it home safe and sound. I havent been on here since we came home a couple wees after the match, but as I guessed, a lot of negative feedback about the match. I have to say I was also a bit disappointed of the way the "awards show" was run. A little more information would have helped. We were there with a 9 year old who was bored even before the announced time and we had left Universal Studios to make the "awards show", so he was less than pleased with the delay. I enjoyed the shooters and the RO's and the match, so will definitely consider a return next year. Hopefully a little smoother ride by then :-)

[PatriotMRD]

Assuming that we get notice of next year's dates so that I can bid the vacation slot. I will give them another chance. I like the format. I met some phenomenal people from as far away as Norway (that's you Folke). The ROs were great. I hope they can get things pulled together and not let this die.

Hi man, hope you made it home safe and sound. I havent been on here since we came home a couple wees after the match, but as I guessed, a lot of negative feedback about the match. I have to say I was also a bit disappointed of the way the "awards show" was run. A little more information would have helped. We were there with a 9 year old who was bored even before the announced time and we had left Universal Studios to make the "awards show", so he was less than pleased with the delay. I enjoyed the shooters and the RO's and the match, so will definitely consider a return next year. Hopefully a little smoother ride by then :-)

The drive home was LONG but, uneventful. I hope they get the dates for next year out soon. I have to put in for vacation time in December. I have at least 2 more interested in going after seeing video from this year. Also, hoping to have real Open gun by next year (shot Open with my Limited this year).