shotgunone Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 (edited) I was just wondering because APEX website says that you have to have the FSS to use the Flat Face Trigger. So I guess I need to buy the whole kit for $170 and not just the trigger for $70 to get it to work in my stock M&P CORE, is that correct? Edited November 24, 2014 by shotgunone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkreutz Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 I was just wondering because APEX website says that you have to have the FSS to use the Flat Face Trigger. So I guess I need to buy the whole kit for $170 and not just the trigger for $70 to get it to work in my stock M&P CORE, is that correct? If you haven't already installed the FSS, then you need to install the complete Apex kit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magsz Posted November 24, 2014 Author Share Posted November 24, 2014 I was just wondering because APEX website says that you have to have the FSS to use the Flat Face Trigger. So I guess I need to buy the whole kit for $170 and not just the trigger for $70 to get it to work in my stock M&P CORE, is that correct? This is correct. You must have the FSS components in order for the flat faced trigger shoe to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondakilla98 Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 Will it be available in polymer for us cheap people? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ftjandra Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 (edited) For a drop in kit, the trigger feels better than the M&P trigger job that was on this gun prior to installation, and the trigger job was by a very, very renown M&P gun smith. Compared to my bro's Accu-shadow, this drop in trigger has less over travel, but a bit more pre-travel, but we're talking fractions of a fraction of an inch. The Accu has 1/16 inch over travel and about the same for pre-travel.(I'm not dropping names) Edited November 26, 2014 by ftjandra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Therealkoop Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 Well since the trigger itself is offered without the rest of the apex kit, maybe ill pick one up to give it a shot. When they are in stock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcracco Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 Well since the trigger itself is offered without the rest of the apex kit, maybe ill pick one up to give it a shot. When they are in stock Yeah, I wasn't excited when I say the product released then I went ahead and ordered (backordered) the trigger only from Brownelle. I have an electroless nickel 4.25" with FSS that I will throw it in along with a fast twist S&W barrel. Something different to play with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkreutz Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 Well since the trigger itself is offered without the rest of the apex kit, maybe ill pick one up to give it a shot. When they are in stock Yeah, I wasn't excited when I say the product released then I went ahead and ordered (backordered) the trigger only from Brownelle. I have an electroless nickel 4.25" with FSS that I will throw it in along with a fast twist S&W barrel. Something different to play with. I think you can actually get the trigger alone now. On the Apex site it says "out of stock" but if you go to the page with the trigger only it says "this is only for those who have already installed the FSS kit, call us if this is your situation." (or something like that). It gave me the impression that Apex is trying to prevent people from just buying the trigger and installing it in a pistol without the FSS. I haven't called them but I'm thinking that they want to personally ensure that they are onlly selling it to previous customers who have already bought the FSS kit. I'm going to call them either Friday if they're open, or Monday and see if my suspicions are true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Therealkoop Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 Well since the trigger itself is offered without the rest of the apex kit, maybe ill pick one up to give it a shot. When they are in stock Yeah, I wasn't excited when I say the product released then I went ahead and ordered (backordered) the trigger only from Brownelle. I have an electroless nickel 4.25" with FSS that I will throw it in along with a fast twist S&W barrel. Something different to play with. I think you can actually get the trigger alone now. On the Apex site it says "out of stock" but if you go to the page with the trigger only it says "this is only for those who have already installed the FSS kit, call us if this is your situation." (or something like that). It gave me the impression that Apex is trying to prevent people from just buying the trigger and installing it in a pistol without the FSS. I haven't called them but I'm thinking that they want to personally ensure that they are onlly selling it to previous customers who have already bought the FSS kit. I'm going to call them either Friday if they're open, or Monday and see if my suspicions are true. That sounds plausible. Let us know what you find. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkreutz Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 (edited) I had a vendor confirm that what I suspected was true. (that Apex wanted to make sure that the buyer had a FSS kit installed, not wanting a potential problem to come up if someone installed the FSS trigger in a M&P that didn't have the FSS). This vendor had them in stock for $5.00 less and free shipping so I ordered one. Here's a link to the store page. http://www.twobrostactical.com/collections/m-p/products/m-p-aluminum-flat-faced-action-enhancement-trigger Edited November 27, 2014 by Bkreutz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Therealkoop Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 Just ordered one, thanks! Apex's video states you can have a 2lb trigger pull. Is this realistic while still being able to ignite primers? I have some light strikes here and there with my FSS already. Adding a wolf striker spring (4lb) throws my reliability out the window. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iowashooter Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 Just ordered one, thanks! Apex's video states you can have a 2lb trigger pull. Is this realistic while still being able to ignite primers? I have some light strikes here and there with my FSS already. Adding a wolf striker spring (4lb) throws my reliability out the window. I run the polymer fss kit with competition springs and mg teigger pull weight is in the neighborhood of 2 lbs. I never had a light primer strike until the last match and had about 25 of them. It was 12 degrees so I would attribute it more to that then anything. But I plan on cleaning the striker channel thuroughly and I may tune the loop of the trigger bar to give alittle more clearance on the sear. I am currently using cci primers but I will probably go to federals as they are softer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkreutz Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 Just ordered one, thanks! Apex's video states you can have a 2lb trigger pull. Is this realistic while still being able to ignite primers? I have some light strikes here and there with my FSS already. Adding a wolf striker spring (4lb) throws my reliability out the window. Trigger pull has nothing to do with how hard the striker pin hits the primer, the trigger pull is how much force it takes to release the striker. The problem comes in when people change the trigger return spring and the striker spring at the same time, the lighter striker spring (or the filthy striker channel) causes the inconsistent primer ignition and the light trigger pull gets the blame. Conceivably one could have a half pound trigger pull and a 20 pound striker spring (that would probably affect the cycling a bit though). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Therealkoop Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 I use CCI primers which doesnt help. Adding a lighter or heavier striker spring noticeably changes the trigger pull. Either there is a slight camming action of the striker to the sear, or the increased friction is causing it. This all based off the butt dyno however as I dont have a gauge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkreutz Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 I use CCI primers which doesnt help. Adding a lighter or heavier striker spring noticeably changes the trigger pull. Either there is a slight camming action of the striker to the sear, or the increased friction is causing it. This all based off the butt dyno however as I dont have a gauge. I'd have to do an actual experiment (or see the data from someone else). I can't imagine the tiny bit of camming that the M&P sear does on the striker ear making much effect on the trigger pull. (but I've been wrong before). I use the stock M&P striker spring and CCI primers. The only light strikes I get is when I didn't clean the striker channel regularly, but even then it took over 10K rounds. I now clean the striker and channel every 4th cleaning (around 4K rounds). I like CCI because I find them easier to load into Dillon tubes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Therealkoop Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 I like CCI because I can actually find them lol. I figure there is a reason Apex includes lightened striker springs in their competition AEK kit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bthoefer Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 (edited) I used the stock striker spring with the rest of the Apex competition kit. I went to the lighter apex striker spring to help with the slide not going into battery with a light recoil spring. I tested trigger pull weight with each and there was no change. Exact same pull weight with stock or apex striker spring. The stock sear cams the striker more as the trigger is pulled. I would guess that the striker spring would make a difference with the stock sear, including the performance center sear. Edited November 29, 2014 by bthoefer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Therealkoop Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 I think you guys are right. I might be carrying over information from the competition AEK style sear to the FSS. I just spent some time switching between the Wolf, Apex, and Factory 9L striker springs and I cant tell a difference. If I do this on my M&P with the CAEK there is noticeable difference. Im running a 15lb IMSI recoil spring, so Im going to actually experiment with buying a heavier striker spring now. Thanks guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magsz Posted November 29, 2014 Author Share Posted November 29, 2014 Guys, Dont kill the messenger please! I was told that Brownells would have the items in stock and i was a little surprised that they dont appear to have any in stock or they sold out. Im really not sure which one it is. I am noticing a difference in pull weights when adding the competition striker spring BUT this is also coupled with the competition trigger return spring as well. I havent tested each one individually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rack&roll Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 The kits and triggers only are available @ Apex...just call. You must call. I just installed the flat trigger today (already had the FSS polymer trigger kit in my CORE), it's quite simply - Amazing! I'm gonna get another for my limited Pro M&P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondakilla98 Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 The kits and triggers only are available @ Apex...just call. You must call. I just installed the flat trigger today (already had the FSS polymer trigger kit in my CORE), it's quite simply - Amazing! I'm gonna get another for my limited Pro M&P. Two brothers has them, and they're on sale. Here's just the trigger. http://www.twobrostactical.com/collections/m-p/products/m-p-aluminum-flat-faced-action-enhancement-trigger And the fss kit with trigger. http://www.twobrostactical.com/collections/m-p/products/m-p-forward-set-sear-flat-faced-trigger-kit-aluminum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rack&roll Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 I shot my CORE today with the new flat trigger I installed last night. The only thing I changed was the trigger shoe itself, as I already had the polymer FSS kit in the gun. I used the same tried and true ammo (reloads) that I have been using for about a year with no problems. Out of 100 rounds fired I had 6 failure to fire. Click...nothing. Hits on the primer were centered and looked good. Put them back in the mag after ejecting them and they went off with no problem. Again every thing else is the same. Springs, firing pin, trigger spring, sear, plunger, etc. What could cause this? Any suggestions would be appreciated...thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magsz Posted November 29, 2014 Author Share Posted November 29, 2014 That's a really good question. You may have a timing issue between the striker block and the new trigger. I would give Apex a ring on Monday and see what they say. So far, zero light strikes with my kit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkreutz Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 I shot my CORE today with the new flat trigger I installed last night. The only thing I changed was the trigger shoe itself, as I already had the polymer FSS kit in the gun. I used the same tried and true ammo (reloads) that I have been using for about a year with no problems. Out of 100 rounds fired I had 6 failure to fire. Click...nothing. Hits on the primer were centered and looked good. Put them back in the mag after ejecting them and they went off with no problem. Again every thing else is the same. Springs, firing pin, trigger spring, sear, plunger, etc. What could cause this? Any suggestions would be appreciated...thanks! In my experience, if they go off the second time through, the cause was primers not fully seated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rack&roll Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 (edited) Forget this post I was wrong! (hey...it happens!) Edited December 2, 2014 by rack&roll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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