SISIG Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 I'm not sure if this is the right venue but do you guys follow a Live fire practice? Drills? How do you compliment your Dry fire with Live fire practice while staying in the training loop? In my range sometimes the RO would just put a mini stages and people run it and not really know what they are practicing for and I realize I'm not really knowing my mistake, weakness, and reinforcing things that I'm doing ok. What are the key things to work on to continue to validate your skills? Any live fire plan? Can i just follow what I have in my Dry fire book and run it in live fire? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 get Ben Stoeger's, Steve Anderson's or Mike Seeklander's training books & videos. All have outlined comprehensive training including dry fire & live fire. You must setup a regular training schedule of dry & live fire to methodically work through the required skills based on wherever you currently are WRT what you shoot (USPSA, Steel Challenge, IDPA, etc) if you expect to progress ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 (edited) in terms of broad skills you must be able to do the following: 1. Execute fundamental marksmanship skills 2. Be able to stand and shoot accurately at speed 3. Be able to shoot accurately at speed while moving through a course of fire Most people skip right to step 3 ... and most people never make it out of 'B' class ... Edited July 23, 2014 by Nimitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SISIG Posted July 23, 2014 Author Share Posted July 23, 2014 get Ben Stoeger's, Steve Anderson's or Mike Seeklander's training books & videos. All have outlined comprehensive training including dry fire & live fire. You must setup a regular training schedule of dry & live fire to methodically work through the required skills based on wherever you currently are WRT what you shoot (USPSA, Steel Challenge, IDPA, etc) if you expect to progress ... I have Ben Stoeger's book and have been following the 4 week cycle and have noticed little things and able to correct them and validated via live fire in terms of broad skills you must be able to do the following: 1. Execute fundamental marksmanship skills 2. Be able to stand and shoot accurately at speed 3. Be able to shoot accurately at speed while moving through a course of fire Most people skip right to step 3 ... and most people never make it out of 'B' class ... This 3 point is why I dont like to run around COF for practices and would rather work on Fundamentals, Markmanship and Shooting on the move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 I think you have 2/3 of it correct .... Shooting on the move is an advanced skill for sure and while it looks really cool, the average C/B class shooter would be far better off working on other skills with their limited training time. About 6 months ago I stopped incorporating movement drills in my training ... And will not add them back in until I can shoot a typical classifier (stand and shoot) at the 75% level on demand. I picked up a pistol for the first time 2 years ago and my classification has gone from 47% to 58% to 67% (2 weeks ago) so I have no intention of changing my training program since it is clearly working ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 (edited) I think you have 2/3 of it correct .... Shooting on the move is an advanced skill for sure and while it looks really cool, the average C/B class shooter would be far better off working on other skills with their limited training time. About 6 months ago I stopped incorporating movement drills in my training ... And will not add them back in until I can shoot a typical classifier (stand and shoot) at the 75% level on demand. I know you spend alot of time and thought on your training plan, so I'm certainly not saying you're wrong, but I think stuff works differently for different people. I have found that incorporating some movement drills (into and out of positions as well as shooting on the move) has significantly improved my sight awareness and shot-calling, and has helped my stand-and-shoot skills as well. I don't overdo it tho, maybe 10-20% of my time at most. I think a key is constant self-evaluation, with the help of friends and video if you have them available. Find your weak points and focus most on them, but there's no need to neglect the things you aren't weak on. If you dry-fire every day, variety helps keep it from getting stale, and helps me stay focused. After a match, think about what went right and what went wrong. Talk about it with training buddies during and after the match, so you can put extra training focus on the things that are really holding you back. With respect to the original question, I have a bunch of simple live-fire drills I do. From bill drills to el-prez, to strader's 4-aces. Sometimes I'll set up a simple classifier (usually after I've tanked it at a match, lol) and work on those skills in dry-fire for a bit and then live fire once or twice. I think the simple classifiers are good because you have a standard you can measure yourself against. Ben's live-fire drills are also good, but the standards may be a bit unrealistic for a newer shooter, even in dry-fire. The whole point tho is to keep track of the scores (hit-factor, not just time) and improve them. Edited July 27, 2014 by motosapiens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 Fair enough .... I just see way too many shooters who focus on movement stuff like its some magic pill and when you have them do something simple like the Acceletator drill they can't put 2 in the A zone of the 25 yd target to save their lives... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Fair enough .... I just see way too many shooters who focus on movement stuff like its some magic pill and when you have them do something simple like the Acceletator drill they can't put 2 in the A zone of the 25 yd target to save their lives... We can agree on that. You really have to be able to make the shots, but working on several things at once can help keep it fresh for folks that dry-fire every day. I'm pretty confident that every GM can shoot redonkulously small groups whenever it is required, and it seems like most good instructors really stress the importance of fundamentals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckie45 Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Define the skill you want to improve and build your drill to maximize it and give you the means to measure improvement. I regularly use Anderson's dry fire book, and Stoeger’s live fire book. I'm one of the people that did it all backwards though. I jumped straight to the advanced skill first. I made big gains on the field courses, but stayed the same on the classifiers. I'm focusing back on the fundamentals now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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