The answer to Benelli slugs and pattern off from point of aim

[kurtm]

Oops, I should have given Jed the Readers Digest version of The answer. YES, it has been the wrong way all these years, and just so you know it was and is a problem with the M1 Benelli as well.

BTW one of The first gauges is going to my good friend Taran, do you happen to know him? He and I have been corroborating on Benelli shotguns for a long time, and i was saying that it cant be the barrel now for a long time, it just took a while to figure out what was square on the receiver to measure from and then figure out how to make the gauge.

[MarkCO]

Good show Kurt!

I won't be at FB3G. Going to try and improve my terrible pistol skills over the next few months.

BTW, you did catch one of the quotes in my signature line?

[latech15]

A bit of a thread drift here, but would you mind explaining how exactly a barrel is air gauged? I have heard the term before, and I looked it up on wiki, but I am still a little fuzzy as to how it works with a barrel to determine straightness. Would a slight bend in a barrel as large as 12 gauge, be enough to make a measurable difference in back pressure???? or am I understanding it all wrong?

Thanks in advance. Feel free to pm me or move this to a new thread if posting this question here is out of line.

[kurtm]

I don't know how they did it. I just sent the barrels and they did the test. I also sent them a barrel that had been whacked good and hard to "fix" the poi. In all the barrels I had tested they said one was way off, the rest arrow straight. I had them Mark the barrel, and low and behold, when I got it back and checked it, it was the whack attacked barrel i sent as a test dummy. I really don't know the process, sorry.

[kampr]

A bit of a thread drift here, but would you mind explaining how exactly a barrel is air gauged? I have heard the term before, and I looked it up on wiki, but I am still a little fuzzy as to how it works with a barrel to determine straightness. Would a slight bend in a barrel as large as 12 gauge, be enough to make a measurable difference in back pressure???? or am I understanding it all wrong?

Thanks in advance. Feel free to pm me or move this to a new thread if posting this question here is out of line.

"A high-end application could include a special 6-inch diameter rifle-barrel twist air spindle with a 10-foot long connector to measure a cannon bore."

That barrel as large as a 12 gauge,...doesn't seem so large anymore...

More than you really need to know about air-gaging......... http://www.qualitymag.com/articles/84748-quality-measurement-why-air-gaging-still-matters

Edited September 24, 2013 by kampr

[jedpeters]

Oops, I should have given Jed the Readers Digest version of The answer. YES, it has been the wrong way all these years, and just so you know it was and is a problem with the M1 Benelli as well.

BTW one of The first gauges is going to my good friend Taran, do you happen to know him? He and I have been corroborating on Benelli shotguns for a long time, and i was saying that it cant be the barrel now for a long time, it just took a while to figure out what was square on the receiver to measure from and then figure out how to make the gauge.

Wouldn't say I "know" him but as a customer one of the things that I was sold on was the point of aim/impact tuning.

It's good to know you are getting things worked out with him and getting this taken care of, it will be interesting to see how it all plays out.

[Jadeslade]

Kurt should be jailed.

[Ontarget]

So a gun with a misaligned tube that shoots high or shoots left will have the same problem with almost any barrel that is put on it?

[kurtm]

Yes OnTarget. You got it! That was my first hint long ago that it wasn't the barrels, but it took a long time to figure the rest out.

[P.E. Kelley]

It is weird, now that YOU have figured this out, it feels like we should have known this was the problem!

Damn I coulda had a V8!

(I want a tool Kurt…please)

[kurtm]

I know Pat! I knew it wasn't the barrels for a long time, I just couldn't prove it nor had any way to quantify it. The whole key was running into the right machinest that understood the problem and could figure out what was square and where to measure it from. The rest is history. Ill shoot you a p.m. when I get the first batch done amigo, but we will get you one, or at least access to one.

[P.E. Kelley]

Since your first post on this, I have been working though the process. Thinking of using my mill table to dial in, then indicate, but then

like you said….what is straight or square? Turn and fit a bushing into the receiver and bore that for a rod to index off of? Maybe, but

then again what is square and what does the barrel 'square too" really?

A brain twister for sure. Again thank you for working though this and coming up with a solution.

Knowing you, I know you would not breath a word… if this was not…the last word.

Redneck tactical strikes again!

Best my brother

PK

[Jesse Tischauser]

So is the Benelli factory drilling the hole for the tube crooked or is the factory mag tube crooked or am I still lost?

Now that Taran has a tool may e he can unbend my barrel back to straight after he lines everything else up correctly.

[kurtm]

Nope a bent barrel is a bent barrel.

He doesn't have one yet, there is only one right now and it is in my possession.

The mag tube bore in the receiver is square. The tubes are mostly straight. The interface of the Ajax threads, the spacer and no jig to hold it all square when the thread locker sets at the factory is the problem.

What shops do with the tool is up to them. You will have to call him up and ask after he gets one.

Edited September 25, 2013 by kurtm

[Jesse Tischauser]

So Benelli can true everything up with a jig during assembly possibly?

This is really interesting stuff. Great job man!!!

I can hardly wait for Rocky Mountain next year now that everyone will have straight shooting shotguns. JJ is likely to have us shooting flying clays with slugs at 50-100 yards.

[No.343]

This is great news. My inability to shoot slugs with my M2 was very discouraging when I tried my hand at 3 gun.

[kurtm]

Ahh, but after 6:00 p.m. tomorrow Mr. 343 you wont have that trouble any longe, see ya then.

Edited September 25, 2013 by kurtm

[Ontarget]

Kurt: Please post when you have a gunsmith who will correct this problem. I think he will see a lot of business. Thanks.

[kurtm]

I am hoping that the gauges are finished late this week early next week. I wont "have a gunsmith", but I imagine if you think of the top builders, they will have them.

[abn-rgr]

Kurt, any chance you will have one this weekend in fayette? What kind of bourbon was that u liked again????

[Bryan 45]

Chad, I think his favorite is "Fighting Cock." Or at least it will be after he tries it.

And for you guys that think I'm making it up- http://www.bourbonenthusiast.com/forum/DBvd.php?id=70&task=displaybottling

[JPeel]

Chad, I think his favorite is "Fighting Cock." Or at least it will be after he tries it.

And for you guys that think I'm making it up- http://www.bourbonenthusiast.com/forum/DBvd.php?id=70&task=displaybottling

Good gawd man!!! Fighting Cock ??? It's ok but...

I'll bring a bottle of Booker's to be shared after the FB3G. Surely Kurt's contributions are worth that much.

[kurtm]

Thanks for the thought, but due to medical reasons I can't drink anymore......or less

[JPeel]

Thanks for the thought, but due to medical reasons I can't drink anymore......or less

Ok - I've got dibs on Kurt's share

Edited September 25, 2013 by JPeel

[Vlad]

This is pretty cool stuff, and it makes perfect sense. I am curious though, how much is this an issue on brands other then Benelli's ? Is it a problem likely to happen on other brands? Logically, I guess so as the mechanics are the same, but in practice is this an issue for say a Versamax or Mossberg, or are their assembly procedures less likely to lead to this issue?