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.38 "mid" Colt


RevolverJockey

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So I found a way to cut down .38 special cases very quickly and am cutting down some .38 spl brass to .900. I want to start loading soon and have 158gr RN cast lead bullets, Starline brass, and Federal primers and will be roll crimping. I am looking to seat to an OAL of 1.270" and use TG powder to make USPSA minor PF. Can someone start me out with a good safe starting load? Thanks in advance.

Lee

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Good timing! I am looking forward to seeing your method in the video.

This past weekend i culled about 60 or so winchester cases that seem to fit the full moons I have well and was fixing to use a lee trimmer chucked up in a drill press to trim them to "mid" length (.900).

I intend to do some load development with the poweders/bullets I have to see how they work.

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Will standard 38/357 dies for a Dillon 650 go down far enough to seat and crimp 38 'mid' Colt? This sounds like an interesting thing to play with this winter.

I am using standard Dillon dies with a 550 and this works. I may get a conversion kit for my 1050 to speed things up - can't see any reason why it wouldn't work with a 650. However in the final station I am using a Lee factory crimp die (read this as a roll crimp die) and it wasn't even close to working. This particular die has a post loading carbide sizer ring at the base so it really can't be cut off either - I fabricated a stop so the floating roll crimp portion would shoulder out sooner inside the die and this works well. I don't think these dies would make it all the way down to SC - .765" is memory serves without some serious modification, the sizing die not withstanding.

Lee

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I was just messing around with this with LC cases. My solution to the crimp was to use a 9mm Lee Factory Crimp die with the collet replaced with a .38/.357 collet. But the die is too short after just swapping the collets, and a spacer was needed between the adjuster and the collet to get the collet closer to the case mouth. My solution was to use a small socket as a spacer. Voilá. Perfect, with lots of adjustment left, so it'll likely crimp even SC cases.

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I trim mine down to .800" and use TiteGroup behind Berry's 158 TMJ. I run 4.0 grs which gives me around a 142 PF, more than needed for minor, but very accurate load in 4" 686. When using home cast 158 lrn, I run 3.6 TiteGroup for a 132 PF, good luck. I also find that FED and REM brass works best with my TK moonclips, Win not so much

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I looked at my 650 this morning and I can flare the mouth of a Mid Colt length case, I might be able to seat a bullet in Mid Colt but there is no way a Dillon 38 Special crimp die is going to be able to crimp a 38 Mid Colt.

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I looked at my 650 this morning and I can flare the mouth of a Mid Colt length case, I might be able to seat a bullet in Mid Colt but there is no way a Dillon 38 Special crimp die is going to be able to crimp a 38 Mid Colt.

I have a lathe and monoset grinder, how much needs to be taken off?

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Or perhaps Dillon would sell you just a 9mm insert for the crimp die?

Lee

Edited by Mitch_Rapp.45
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I looked at my 650 this morning and I can flare the mouth of a Mid Colt length case, I might be able to seat a bullet in Mid Colt but there is no way a Dillon 38 Special crimp die is going to be able to crimp a 38 Mid Colt.

I have a lathe and monoset grinder, how much needs to be taken off?

<image snipped>

Or perhaps Dillon would sell you just a 9mm insert for the crimp die?

Lee

A 9mm crimp die is only $24.45. For the matter a complete 9mm set is only $63.95. Who know one of these days I might actually own a 9mm handgun in the mean time I could use them to load 38 Mid Colt. The seating die would ensure I could seat the bullets as deep as I want.

Edited by mcb
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I use a .357 sizing die, a shortened .357 flare/powder die (in a Lee Pro 1000) and a 9mm taper crimp die. The roll crimp doesn't seem to play well with plated bullets, plus, some moly coated bullets aren't cannalured. My brass is .920 BTW.

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You can remove the carbide insert from Lee FCDs. It's held in place by an internal shoulder in the die, and a dab of locktite. Just thread the die in your press, remove the guts, and knock the ring out with a small cold chisel from the top. You'll end up cutting through the non-hardened internal shoulder with the chisel, and the ring will pop right out. You'll probably want to smooth any rough edges created when the shoulder got cut.

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When I began loading short colt, I cut the bottom off a Dillon 38 special crimp die. I also put the locking ring on the underside of the toolhead of a 1050. You can use a 9mm crimp die also.

Seiichi

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Ha Ha! I thought I was the only one crazy enough to cut down a crimp die and a powder /flare die! Guess that's why it's called a "die grinder"... I put the locking rings on the bottom also. I still use the roll crimp die on 38/357 stuff. Works fine. Learning curve!

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I got some brass from Star Line and before they shipped it they sent an email saying the order of

38 Short Colt brass was ready. Emailed them and advised it was 38 Super Comp. Glad I caught

that before it had to be shipped back, etc.

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I got some brass from Star Line and before they shipped it they sent an email saying the order of

38 Short Colt brass was ready. Emailed them and advised it was 38 Super Comp. Glad I caught

that before it had to be shipped back, etc.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/941317504/starline-reloading-brass-38-short-colt

38 short colt in stock @ midway

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Made my first range trip today with the new ammo. 2.8gr TG gave me about 700fps - roughly 110pf with 158 cast RN. I will bump up to 3.0 and see where that leaves me.

Here are some pictures of the cutoff saw I set up for making mid colt. I can do about 15-20 a minute then square them off on the trimmer/lathe. I tried to get a video to work, but couldn't figure it out. I am also in the process of making a more permanent/ square brass holder out of aluminum with a "W" drill (.386ish). I will post more pictures when I get it finished - in the meantime this works well enough.

Lee

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You know we'll do anything to get that little edge over the competition. :goof:

Now that the limited barrel rules have changed, I'm thinking about rebarreling a perfectly good gun! Whereas I should probably spend the time and money on practice. But that's no fun!

Seiichi

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I know this is subjective, but as I work up this load in .38 mid - it seems like at about 110pf in .38 with a 158gr bullets, the recoil appears to surpass the felt recoil of my 610 with 200gr .40 SW rounds at about 128pf. By my math the .38 will need to reach about 820fps while the .40 will need 650fps to have about the same PF. Both revolvers are 5" and without 4oz of each other. Has anyone else experienced this or is it in my head? I will be shooting both side by side tomorrow at the same PF with a chrono to get some more data.

Lee

I used to shoot .40 minor on production and it always felt less snappy than 9mm - even a bit sluggish at times. Could it be that the .40 recoil is "slower" due to the larger caliber?

Edited by Mitch_Rapp.45
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