Is there a point when competition becomes irrelevant

[P.E. Kelley]

Please do think I don't relish most every win as I most certainly do, just some more than others.

Allow me to get back to the initial question asked in the title of this thread. No, I do not think their is a time when competition becomes irrelevant.

Competiton is how I gauge my abilities.

[toothguy]

For me to shoot my best while shooting the competition the competition is irrelevant. After the competition thats different.

[Steve Anderson]

"Seems the artists statements are full of doubt. "if i shoot to the best of my ability, I might win"

I don't see doubt there, I see possibility. And posibility can be negative or positive.

"The Champion is full of pride and pride comes before a fall."

I don't see pride, I see confidence. Provided of course he has the skills to back up the bravado.

You will never be a national champion without a high level of confidence. It's not an accident that just happens.

Flex wrote about their merging, and I think they absolutely do.

I originally wrote the article in order to decide for myself which I am.

Regardless of what I would like to be I know I am the other one.

Hell, I as much as stated it on the back of my second book.

The goal is excellence, perfection of motion.

But if our artist doesn't win, he knows there is more excellence out there.

What does our champion know if he doesn't win?

And so so they both continue to train, but for very different reasons.

I'm really enjoying this one...

Edited September 25, 2012 by Steve Anderson

[benos]

I'll have more to say on this later, but let me throw this out there:

Would you rather shoot well or win?

I was an artist. Which I realized, after I retired, was my weakness.

[HoMiE]

But if our artist doesn't win, he knows there is more excellence out there.

What does our champion know if he doesn't win?

I like that part right there. To me, I think the artists in each of us tries to perfect the talent we have within us and then the competitor is us puts our work on display to see how we do against others. There is an objective component to it, did i shoot the most points in the least amount of time. There is also the subject part that is our own take away, did I shoot the stage/match to the best of my abilities, where there things I could improve on. If we are not happy with any of the results, then you either work and improve or you stay content with where your at. Competition becomes irrelevant if you dont care about what you get out of it.

Edited September 25, 2012 by HoMiE

[toothguy]

Beating the shit out of the competition and being the best shooter ever born sounds slightly arrogant, unless you are. If you are not then you maybe setting your self up for an ego adjustment. It seems like a hard way to play.

[Steve Anderson]

"I was an artist. Which I realized, after I retired, was my weakness."

Brother, that's as obvious as the day is long. I just needed to hear it from YOU.

I realized it fully when I began to get more satisfaction from helping others reach their goals. All my easy goals are accomplished.

Next up: The hard ones.

Thanks Benos!

[Steve Anderson]

And, a little arrogance is good for you. It is best groomed internally. Otherwise you're just a dick.

[Steve Anderson]

And when you've written more books than you have National titles, well...

[toothguy]

Steve, I know you are an artist because you are constantly learning and sharing your observations with others. From my experience those that think there the best that have ever lived have stopped learning and are usually undone by themselves.

[BillChunn]

USPSA shooting is a competition. That's why the results are posted. After 20-some years of pulling the trigger, a smile still crosses my face if I'm first "Senior".

These days, more satisfaction is gained by helping the new guy and watching them progress up the ranks.

HH

[Flexmoney]

Would you rather shoot well or win?

Is there a difference?

[Flexmoney]

I'll have more to say on this later, but let me throw this out there:

Would you rather shoot well or win?

I was an artist. Which I realized, after I retired, was my weakness.

Brian, care to compare and contrast you and some other names (TGO, Doug, Burner, Jet, whoever comes to mind...) ? Also, gives some observed pros and cons?

[Steve Anderson]

You can desire to shoot well and win... but I think deep down you'll still have a preference.

I've shot badly and won, and I've shot brilliantly and lost.

The days I shot brilliantly... Man, those are the ones.

For a true Champion, the shooting becomes a vehicle that takes you to the winner's circle, where you pour champagne on yourself and make out with the trophy girl.

For the artist, shooting brilliantly gives him the motivation to keep at it.

SA

[toothguy]

USPSA shooting is a competition. That's why the results are posted. After 20-some years of pulling the trigger, a smile still crosses my face if I'm first "Senior".

These days, more satisfaction is gained by helping the new guy and watching them progress up the ranks.

HH

A Master is one who has become enlightened, but one desire is left. That desire is not a trouble in becoming enlightened but to help others to become enlightened. - Osho.

[toothguy]

You can desire to shoot well and win... but I think deep down you'll still have a preference.

I've shot badly and won, and I've shot brilliantly and lost.

The days I shot brilliantly... Man, those are the ones.

For a true Champion, the shooting becomes a vehicle that takes you to the winner's circle, where you pour champagne on yourself and make out with the trophy girl.

For the artist, shooting brilliantly gives him the motivation to keep at it.

SA

The Artist is the true Champion.

[Flexmoney]

The Artist is the true Champion.

Or, the Champion is the true Artist?

[toothguy]

The Artist is the true Champion.

Or, the Champion is the true Artist?

Yes, the champion is the true Artist whose performance was judged to have a higher numerical value than that accessed to other true Artists at a particular point in time.

Edited September 27, 2012 by toothguy

[BSeevers]

Look at my Sunday performance by the results I didn't win but I did because I shot like a Champion. Mega jams on a 8 sec 90 pt stage cost me and made me 2nd overall but I came to win and inside I did because I shot fast and accurate and won most of the stages. I have great confidence going into the next match because of it. I can fix a gun but I can't fix bad shooting that quickly.

Artist if you look at the results I have to say that you are part Champion

Many are afraid when I say something like I shot like a Champion. They interpret that as arrogance. I don't get that at all but it is a free country for at least 40 more days. I see arrogance as saying something like I am the greatest shooter ever born. Only people like Max TGO TJ etc can say that and not really after the next competition

I started this sport considering myself a Martial Artist who likes to win competitions. Now it's my one of my social outlets but I still like to win.In fact if I didn't think I could anymore I am not sure what I would do.

[lugnut]

I'll have more to say on this later, but let me throw this out there:

Would you rather shoot well or win?

Shooting well is relative to only yourself. Winning is relative to what others are doing. Two totally different things. I want both. I don't want to win when I shoot poorly nor do I want to lose when I shoot well.

Edited September 26, 2012 by lugnut

[benos]

I'll have more to say on this later, but let me throw this out there:

Would you rather shoot well or win?

I was an artist. Which I realized, after I retired, was my weakness.

Brian, care to compare and contrast you and some other names (TGO, Doug, Burner, Jet, whoever comes to mind...) ? Also, gives some observed pros and cons?

Robbie (and the other 3 guys) was there for one reason: To win.

In contrast, of course I'd like to win, but my deepest motivation was to perform at the highest level humanely imaginable.

I think I've told this story before, but it fits here so bear with me if you've heard it before.

After I quit competing, I came across a magzine article that was written big a multi-time world champion Sporting Clays competitor. I can't remember his name at the moment, nor the name of the competitor he described in the article. So I'll name them "Author" and "Competitor." The Author described his mental approach to breaking targets. Once he figured out how to break a specific target, he NEVER varied that technique for that target, no matter how many times he shot that target for the rest of his life. Then he described the Competitor's approach to breaking targets. He said he'd be out there, in a world championship, experimenting with a "better" or "more efficient" way to break a target. That was me.

be

[Sam]

There is a point where competing to "win" or "lose" becomes totally irrelevant.

You may reach this point if you ever come to the full realization that there is no "I". Then, it's irrelevant if "I"

win or "I" lose.

Competing for other reasons may never lose relevance. Depends on the motivation......

[Steve Anderson]

Great post Bill!

You always have the right amount of arrogance. Just enough for the self-image to be healthy, yet still short of @$$hole.

(That's a compliment. No misconceptions allowed)

And the fact you didn't win has already made you a better shooter.

And it's so obvoious that TGO is programmed to win. It's what he is. He's made of it.

That's the champion's default position.

Maybe the artist over thinks it a bit, while the champion just commences with the ass-kicking.

And then Benos read my mind:

"In contrast, of course I'd like to win, but my deepest motivation was to perform at the highest level humanely imaginable"

SA

[toothguy]

On the last Shooting USA they covered bullseye shooting at Camp Perry. There was a short interview with TGO he spoke about being frustrated with bullseye and had a list of things that made him good at the style of shooting that he does but poor at bullseye. He made a joke about how he hated it but could not stop shooting it. He wanted to be able to shoot it as well and was making the necessary refinements patience follow through ect. Sounded like the thought process of a artist or craftsman.

Edited September 27, 2012 by toothguy

[toothguy]

I'll have more to say on this later, but let me throw this out there:

Would you rather shoot well or win?

I was an artist. Which I realized, after I retired, was my weakness.

And your greatist strength without which you would not be the shooter you are. It's really not something the artist-scientist can control anyway it's in the DNA.

Edited September 28, 2012 by toothguy