Aglifter Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 Admittedly, I don't know if many shooters actually worry about the competition, and shooting is more complicated to practice alone than strongman or lifting, but... At a certain point many lifters tend to lose interest in records, wins, etc. It becomes something quite personal, and all that matters is your own progression. I'm beginning to think that shooting may have the same stage - all activities which focus on a simple physical act may have a stage when you go out by yourself into the mental wilderness, and the acts of others are no longer of any interest... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 It is really cool when you are competing against yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeRush Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 I finally won a local side match that involves drawing to a sliding plate, a reload, and then driving a popper down before your opponent downs his. I have lost plenty of times just based on my personal opinion of my opponent by firing before getting a good sight picture or jerking the trigger. I have been working on mental conditioning, and this month I was able to focus only on hitting that plate, reloading, and driving the popper down. I made it all the way to the end and won- the interesting thing was I had no clue whether I had won each round until I saw my popper on the bottom. I think the principle applies to shooting and that "mental wilderness" you refer to allows more room for sight picture, trigger control, and other elements of actually shooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wide45 Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 It always was irrelevant. The only one who can affect your performance, is you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perjohn Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 I've been experiencing this for a while. I enjoy progressing more than competing. I would rather shoot 300-400 rounds in practice, and see an improvement in some aspect of my shooting, than to shoot a club match. I actually enjoy dry fire. Being able to notice with every session something got a little smoother, a little more efficient. I enjoy getting lost in the process, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Anderson Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 I recently wrote a facebook article on this very subject: The Artist and the Champion The Artist and the Champion were preparing for a match together one day, late summer or early fall. There's not much difference around here... The Artist says to the Champion: I am training very hard these days, I want to shoot to the absolute best of my ability. I'm sure I'll place well if I do. I might even win. The Champion replies: I cannot wait to get to the match and beat the living shit out of the competition! I am going to win this thing because I'm the best shooter ever born. And so they both keep training, but for two very different reasons. Which are you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vluc Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 It is really cool when you are competing against yourself. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vluc Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 (edited) It always was irrelevant. The only one who can affect your performance, is you. Too true! Imagine how much more interesting a major match would be if the super squads were broken up, top shooters scattered into different squads with lower classed shooters, not knowing/seeing how the others are doing.... Edited September 25, 2012 by vluc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 It always was irrelevant. The only one who can affect your performance, is you. Too true! Imagine how much more interesting a major match would be if the super squads were broken up, top shooters scattered into different squads with lower classed shooters, not knowing/seeing how the others are doing.... I suspect we'd be seeing some of the best shooting. No longer tied to how their closest competition is doing, it would possible to completely dis-associate themselves from everything but shooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
okshootist Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 I think competition is very relevant for most. Placing, titles, prizes, classification, bragging rights among your peers, etc. can all serve as the basis for outcome-based goals. Outcome-based goals provide the motivation to improve your skills, physical fitness, equipment and the mental aspect of performance. The down side is that outcome-based goals are a distraction during actual performance. So,the ability to set aside the desired outcomes and shift to a process-based mindset during the actual performance is crucial. For optimal performance, both the desired outcome and the process have to have their place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 I recently wrote a facebook article on this very subject: The Artist and the Champion The Artist and the Champion were preparing for a match together one day, late summer or early fall. There's not much difference around here... The Artist says to the Champion: I am training very hard these days, I want to shoot to the absolute best of my ability. I'm sure I'll place well if I do. I might even win. The Champion replies: I cannot wait to get to the match and beat the living shit out of the competition! I am going to win this thing because I'm the best shooter ever born. And so they both keep training, but for two very different reasons. Which are you? At what point do they merge? Is one path better, or just different? (the answer to that might depend on one's personality?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LINC Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 Seems the artists statements are full of doubt. "if i shoot to the best of my ability, I might win" On the other hand the champions statements are very confident, but possibly too much. "Im the best shooter ever born" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoMiE Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 Seems the artists statements are full of doubt. "if i shoot to the best of my ability, I might win" On the other hand the champions statements are very confident, but possibly too much. "Im the best shooter ever born" I don't think the artist is full of doubt, I think the artist approach is more concerned with the journey. You do your best and then you let the chips fall where they may so to speak. What value do you put to winning? Is it the trophy? Is it the process of doing what it takes to be the best in your sport? Competition gives us that platform to measure ourselves against others. The point when it becomes irrelevant is where winning isn't important to us. I know what it takes to be at the top of this game. I don't have the time or money right now to be competitive. Doesn't mean that I can't go and shoot and just enjoy being in the moment and execute what I know to the ability that I am at. I can't do any better than that without putting in the training and practice it takes to be at the top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MustangGreg66 Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 I recently wrote a facebook article on this very subject: The Artist and the Champion The Artist and the Champion were preparing for a match together one day, late summer or early fall. There's not much difference around here... The Artist says to the Champion: I am training very hard these days, I want to shoot to the absolute best of my ability. I'm sure I'll place well if I do. I might even win. The Champion replies: I cannot wait to get to the match and beat the living shit out of the competition! I am going to win this thing because I'm the best shooter ever born. And so they both keep training, but for two very different reasons. Which are you? At what point do they merge? Is one path better, or just different? (the answer to that might depend on one's personality?) I found myself wondering that as well after reading it. My Journey has been interesting. I started shooting and only concerning myself with how I did compared to me. What is the stage plan, how well did I execute the plan I wanted to. As I started to get better, I liked being toward the top of the list in Production Division. I never considered myself a very competitive person, and finish had never been that important to me, but more and more now, I'm more concerned with how well I do overall than how I personally performed on the stages. I shoot fast enough and good enough points to not worry about a half bobbled reload or keeping the gun high as I'm coming around corners... I have plenty to work on when I think about it, but I'm shooting well enough that locally I don't need to in order to keep winning. I'm headed to the Nationals for the first time this year and I'm sure I'm in for a rude awakening as to where my skills line up with the National Champions. I'm no longer even concerned with my Class, but with OA... I think a re-focus inward will be needed to keep my sanity. That said, I have shot against better shooters in shotgun, 3-gun and Rifle matches, even a few local pistol matches have had some top guys switch to Production and give me some serious challenges. I've noticed that whenever I go into a stage and I tell myself I want to do good, I shoot terrible. I try too hard. I rush myself. I'm learning the balance between shooting relaxed and smooth, and quickly and smooth. I do much better when I just forget everything and just shoot the stage how I want to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSeevers Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 You can do both. I think you can also have an issue by being too much of an Artist or a Champion, being too extreme. I have seen hundreds no really thousands leave this sport. Besides finance, job, family I see a lot of the time it's traced back to extreme personality traits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yagi Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 I recently wrote a facebook article on this very subject: The Artist and the Champion The Artist and the Champion were preparing for a match together one day, late summer or early fall. There's not much difference around here... The Artist says to the Champion: I am training very hard these days, I want to shoot to the absolute best of my ability. I'm sure I'll place well if I do. I might even win. The Champion replies: I cannot wait to get to the match and beat the living shit out of the competition! I am going to win this thing because I'm the best shooter ever born. And so they both keep training, but for two very different reasons. Which are you? Mentally i am Champion in my own right at the same time i paint my own canvas... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Anderson Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 I'll have more to say on this later, but let me throw this out there: Would you rather shoot well or win? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.E. Kelley Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 (edited) I would much rather shoot well. If I shoot to my abilites and a better shooter beat me, that fine. If I suck...I lost on my own and that hurts. (woulda, coulda, shoulda) Edited September 25, 2012 by P.E. Kelley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 If this is be similar to the question "Would you rather be right, or be happy?" I choose Happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoMiE Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 I'll have more to say on this later, but let me throw this out there: Would you rather shoot well or win? Depends on what you win. Is your mind set different if its just a local club match and your the top dog, everyone measures up to you. What if your shooting Nationals, is your self image or mental attitude different. What if a national winning GM shows up to your local match? Do you think you can run with the big dogs, swin in the deep end? To answer the question would you rather shoot well or win, I'd rather win. "If your not first, your last." - Ricky Bobby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yagi Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 I would rather shoot well to win than to win and not sure if i shot well or not... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul-the new guy Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 I want to win! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.E. Kelley Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 Curious...to those who want to win is the win just as good if the ONLY other guy in your division is DQ'ed? I derive more pleasure from a battle well fought and lost than one won without effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoMiE Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 Curious...to those who want to win is the win just as good if the ONLY other guy in your division is DQ'ed? I derive more pleasure from a battle well fought and lost than one won without effort. I don't want to win by default of a DQ nor do I have a win at all cost, like cheat or wish bad luck to anyone. Yes a well fought battle and to come up short makes it a little easier to take a loss, but it still feels good to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toothguy Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 The Artist is realistic about his or her abilities. The Artist knows that you can only shoot to your best potential at that given moment without regard to the skills of others. The Champion is full of pride and pride comes before a fall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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