My draw time is horrific!

[jarcher]

Well, I just spent 45 minutes playing with my new timer doing Steve Andersons first drill. My pistol is a Sig P239 and the holster is a High Noon slide guard. What I have to show for it is a 2.2 sec baseline and the start of a nasty blister on the second finger of my right hand (where it hits the trigger guard).

Seeing Steve say that this drill can get down to 0.6 is truly depressing, although I do understand that this is the time for a GM, probably running faster equipment. But I will stay with it!

Just wondering, what kind of draw times are typical for people running production equipment?

[D.Hayden]

I draw like a snail... I'm a low 'C' class.. my baseline is 1.5, but 1.4 might be more accurate now. When I shot it live-fire, it's closer to 1.4..

Production Beretta from a Blade-Tech

Added:

I think it's more important to be good than fast starting out. Be consistant and the speed will come. Look back at this time a year from now, you'll be laughing. And truth be told, in the lower classes .5 - 1.0 second on the draw isn't noticebale in the overall...

Edited July 31, 2004 by BerKim

[Matthew_Mink]

Well, I just checked my book, and my par time for that drill is .6 with Production gear. Keep at it, keep an open mind, and keep learning. You'll get there.

[EricW]

Flying on the Steve plan is absolutely excellent. You might consider a different goal right now, though. Turn off your timer and make the goal a perfect presentation. As in: no fumbling whatsover out of the holster and straight out to your freestyle hold with a perfect sight picture. Once you can do that on demand, *then* you can start worrying about times.

My par time for a *perfect* presentation hovers in the .9 to 1.0 for that drill. I can can push it down to .8 but things start getting sloppy.

[rhino]

In practice last week, Kimber 1911A1 with a Blade-Tech belt scabbard, I was averaging 1.35-1.55 seconds (live fire). In matches I'm usually around 1.8 seconds (steel challenge, maybe faster on a paper target).

So ... jarcher, I am definitely in your ball park.

My problem is I have to "dig" for the gun since it lays against my side (it is a concealment holster, after all!).

[jarcher]

Thanks everyone for the encouragement and advice! I’ll definitely keep at it.

Is getting a blister on the second finger (where it hits the trigger guard) of the strong hand normal? Is there anything I can do (or not do) to avoid this problem?

Also, I forgot to mention. The Sig had a Houge finger grove grip installed. I often noticed that when I drew if I didn't gram the grip just right the finger groves caused a problem, so I put the factory grip panels back on. I'll try those next time to see if I do any better. Has anyone else tried these?

[kevin c]

Remember to go when the beep STARTS, don't wait until it stops. You want to be moving already by the time the beep is over. That saved me a lot of time once that was pointed out to me (though a garden snail in cold molasses is still faster than I am...).

[jarcher]

Remember to go when the beep STARTS, don't wait until it stops.

This is one I did figure out! The beep is 0.5 seconds long. I was certianally moving before it stopped. But what is really stunning is that in order to complete this drill in 0.6 seconds, you would be finishing it 0.1 seconds after the beep stops!

Running this drill did give me an appreciation for how long 2 seconds is, and even how long 0.1 seconds is. As I changed the par time by adding 0.1 second or removing it to find my baseline, I did notice the time difference.

But I think I am going to work on solid presentation without the timer for a while, as was suggested.

[GRD]

Don't sweat your time - you can't compare your times now to some of the times you see posted by GM's around here. It'll give you heartburn.

Your time is your time. That's where you start. It's all downhill from there!

- Gabe

PS: Steve didn't pop out of the womb with a .6 on that drill. It takes time.

[GRD]

PPS: At your stage, cutting out wasted movement is going to be your big winner. Do your draws in front of a full-length mirror or video camera in slow-motion and see where you are moving unnecessarily.

Does your head move? Do your shoulders hunch up? Is the gun coming up too high and you're having to bring it back down? Are you 'slamming' it to a stop or decellerating? How quickly is your hand finding an acceptable grip?

That's a huge key for me: the "muscle memory" of my hand finding the gun in the holster and getting a solid grip with no adjustments. Practice 'dry grips': just start hands at sides and grab the gun (don't draw). Do that about a thousand times. Don't forget to move your off-side hand to it's position too when you do it.

[Flexmoney]

I will agree with everything posted so far..

I don't lose much (if any) time coming out of my Production rig. The only thing a race holster did for me was to help "show me the way".

I think that is where you are. You need to work on breaking down the draw and presentation. Eliminate the waste. That is where the true speed comes from.

So, don't worry so much about the time for now....find the technique (search for post here).

Only use the timer to keep track of your progress right now, don't race against it.

As for the blister...is there a sharp edge on the trigger guard? If so, you might do something to excellerate the wear...without doing an illegal external modification to the gun. (get some sandpaper and break the sharp edge a little, but don't hog on it too much...cause that would be illegal))

[Harmon]

get brians book too, it will help get the draws down..

it will also show some tricks/tips on the draw.

i would say get rid of the houge finger groove grip. on fast draw, it causeds my (big) fingers to stack up wrong, theres nothing worse than a really wierd grip on a speed shoot stage...

i would say use the factory grips, and skateboard tape the crap out of it..

the skate tape might be a little hard on your hands at first, but youll toughen up

[jarcher]

The trigger guard is nice and smooth. It's just that my finger rubbed on it quite a bit, causing the blister. Should I look into shooting gloves, or is this just an indication that my grip is wrong?

I bought Brian's book some time ago. And I have read it a few times, but it's a little beyond me right now. I am still trying to stop flinching and blinking so I can call my shots and shoot tight groups. I think a good chunk of Brian's book will be more helpful to me after I master those skills.

[Jake Di Vita]

My base par time is .6 - .7....depending on the day I'm having.

Just keep it up and always strive to improve and you'll get there.

[Flexmoney]

If you have a smooth trigger and you are getting blisters from your finger rubbing..that sounds like your grip is shifting.

That needs fixed.

Calling the shot needs to be the on the very top of your list.

Don't worry so much about draw speed just yet. Most of that (and a lot of the other stuff we do) is technique. You can learn it, just like many of us had to.

[Steve Anderson]

My Berettas did the same thing to me on the second finger. Over time, a callous will develop. I used to wear a band-aid on that finger if it bothered me.

I'm not sure what kind of holster you refer to, but I doubt it is holding you back too much.

I would look at:

Where are your hands at the beep?

Are your shoulders up in the socket?

Are you staring a hole in the A-zone of the target?

Are you relaxed? Tense = slow.

I remember very well starting out with my Beretta in a yaqui slide holster with those same par times...you'll get there, I promise.

SA

[Ron Ankeny]

Developing a good draw and awesome index is something that doesn't happen over night, it evolves over time. I bought Steve's book and I took a serious approach to getting those draw times down where they belong and it's paying off. My par time on drill one is down to .8 seconds. In live fire the time goes up to 1 second.

Some folks will perhaps never develop a blazingly fast draw, but such is life. I have had a lot of C and B shooters tell me their 1.4 second draw is why their classifiers suck. FWIW, I have shot a lot of classifiers in the 75%-80% range with a 1.4 second (or worse) draw.

[Steve Moneypenny]

First make sure you know HOW to draw the gun.. can you post a pic of this holster on some one, thats really the only way we can tell if it's a hindrance.... on YOU is best.

that callous gotten from the beretta and sig only requres you bevel the edge of the trigger guard ernie at www.langdontactical.com can do this very tastefully and you'll never be able to tell it's done.. me, i have the callous like anderson and jake divita just be careful with the blister and put a piece of tape or bandaid on your finger

the good thing about a slow draw.. u know where to improve :-)

[mcoliver]

Handling my glock eveyday also gave me the "glock knuckle." Since it was plastic, it was easy to round-off the area.

If you're having trouble with the draw phase, try doing a reverse draw. That is, start with your firing position and re-holster the gun. Pay attention to what your body needs to do to make the draw and more importantly, pay attention to what your body is doing totally un-related to the draw.

I'm not sure about your type of holster, but the last time I practiced with my concealment rig I noticed several things:

1. I need to bend slightly to one side to get to the gun's grip.

2. My weakhand may need to access the covering garment.

3. Moving laterally is a good way to practice filling that dead time when reaching for the gun.

Going back and forth between this type of rig and the one I used for IPSC, I realized I can get my draws to within a few tenths of each other. But you really need to start slow, be smooth and break each action into little pieces. Practice those little actions until consistency sets in then start combining them into the full draw.

HTH. Goodluck.

[BigDave]

You'll get there. Focus on your abilities and prepare to push yourself. You're faster than you think.

As for the blister: take some white athletic tape (split down the middle on the wide rolls) and wrap the area loosely with a single layer. Try not to make the overlap on the trigger guard side of your finger. Works for me

[jarcher]

Thanks again everyone. I'll keep at it!

Jim

[uscbigdawg]

My draw was around a 1.2 for a long time and the best advice I got was from Mike Voigt. We were doing a class and even the "warm" draws were around a .95. He just said, "draw faster" and that (along with cleaning up some movement) had it down around an .80. Granted that's still a "warmed up" draw, but the match draws are around .90-1.0 on a consistent basis. Now if I can just focus a little better and do one of them KC .70 draws on Smoke and Hope I'll be rockin'!

The simple things are annoying.

Rich

[38supPat]

OK so whats the drill you are refering too?

[Shooter Grrl]

Pat - dude, welcome back - now catch up Start in the dealer forum, under Steve Anderson's Dry Fire book! I think he's even posted Drill #1.

[warpspeed]

The thing that guys like KC have is the ability to anticipate the beep and react to it as soon as it starts. It is scary. Try to clear your mind and focus on hearing the first part then GO! It takes a while but it will come.

What helped me the most was using a video camera to clean up the mechanics. Shaved 10ths.