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Kasteel

Titanium Nitride barrel

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Kasteel   

I see that SV offers barrels with this treatment. Some long range rifle guys (and Loki Weapons in the AR-15 world) are nitriding barrels in order to extend barrel life. Does anyone have personal experience with nitrided barrels in pistol or rifle? Is TiN a different process?

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Kasteel   

There are some good articles out there (I'll track them down and post them) but I don't see much in the way of personal experience.

Thanks for the contact though. I'll reach out and update with any info I get.

Edited by Kasteel

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My highest round count pistol is my 6" limited pistol. The barrel has the TiN coating from Infinity. I've got over 10K rounds through the pistol and the barrel shows absolutely no wear on it. I'm told it should last 100K with proper lubrication.

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Kasteel   

My highest round count pistol is my 6" limited pistol. The barrel has the TiN coating from Infinity. I've got over 10K rounds through the pistol and the barrel shows absolutely no wear on it. I'm told it should last 100K with proper lubrication.

Wow. No need to ask whether the cost of the process is worth it I reckon. Thanks. That is precisely the kind of input I was looking for.

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I see that SV offers barrels with this treatment. Some long range rifle guys (and Loki Weapons in the AR-15 world) are nitriding barrels in order to extend barrel life. Does anyone have personal experience with nitrided barrels in pistol or rifle? Is TiN a different process?

By definition Titanium Nitride is TiN. Just another way of writing it. Very very long lasting. I believe it's the coatings lubricious values that prolong the longevity.

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Kasteel   

Right. I'm wondering what the difference is between simple nitriding, as opposed to titanium nitriding. Is the titanium merely cosmetic, or does it add hardness or (as you mention) additional lubricating properties to the barrel?

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raz-0   
<br />Right. I'm wondering what the difference is between simple nitriding, as opposed to titanium nitriding. Is the titanium merely cosmetic, or does it add hardness or (as you mention) additional lubricating properties to the barrel?<br />
<br /><br /><br />

I believe what Loki and other rifle barrel sellers are doing is nitro carburizing, which is a molten salt bath. It's like melonite and tennifer. Since it is a bath, it can do inside a barrel. It makes the surface very hard, and on non-stainless steels, imparts corrosion resistance. It is very hot, so it can change the temper of metals.

Coatings like Infiniti uses and diamond black are sputtered coatings that are done at a much lower temp. They are hard, and lubricious, but not corrosion resistant. They also can't go very far into an enclosed area of a coated object. I was lead to believe that the whole interior of a pistol barrel can't be coated in this manner.

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Kasteel   

Your comment about the temperature involved in the processes was interesting. I understand that nitrided barrels become very hard--which makes me wonder if breaking in a barrel that comes nitrided from the maker might be a long, unpleasant process!

Maybe break a barrel in first and then send it out for treatment?

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<br />Right. I'm wondering what the difference is between simple nitriding, as opposed to titanium nitriding. Is the titanium merely cosmetic, or does it add hardness or (as you mention) additional lubricating properties to the barrel?<br />
<br /><br /><br />

I believe what Loki and other rifle barrel sellers are doing is nitro carburizing, which is a molten salt bath. It's like melonite and tennifer. Since it is a bath, it can do inside a barrel. It makes the surface very hard, and on non-stainless steels, imparts corrosion resistance. It is very hot, so it can change the temper of metals.

Coatings like Infiniti uses and diamond black are sputtered coatings that are done at a much lower temp. They are hard, and lubricious, but not corrosion resistant. They also can't go very far into an enclosed area of a coated object. I was lead to believe that the whole interior of a pistol barrel can't be coated in this manner.

Infinity uses a Chemical Vapor Deposition process on their barrels which allows for the inside of the barrels to get fully coated. Gas infused with the material being coated to the part is pumped into a chamber that surrounds the part and reacts with it depositing the coating to the part. It is different than the physical vapor deposition coatings they do on the rest of the gun. PVD coatings are a line of sight coating process that would not allow for the entirety of the inside of the barrel to be coated. Depending on the material that is coated to the part, it will offer better lubricity, corrosion resistance, and wear properties. TiN is used on cutting tools frequently in the machining world to increase tool performance and life. It is quite hard. All of the CVD and PVD coatings used by Infinity increase corrosion resistance significantly.

The temperatures the parts see during CVD are typically higher than during PVD processes. The temperatures seen in coating processes range widely depending on the process and the material being coated to the part.

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<br />Right. I'm wondering what the difference is between simple nitriding, as opposed to titanium nitriding. Is the titanium merely cosmetic, or does it add hardness or (as you mention) additional lubricating properties to the barrel?<br />
<br /><br /><br />

I believe what Loki and other rifle barrel sellers are doing is nitro carburizing, which is a molten salt bath. It's like melonite and tennifer. Since it is a bath, it can do inside a barrel. It makes the surface very hard, and on non-stainless steels, imparts corrosion resistance. It is very hot, so it can change the temper of metals.

Coatings like Infiniti uses and diamond black are sputtered coatings that are done at a much lower temp. They are hard, and lubricious, but not corrosion resistant. They also can't go very far into an enclosed area of a coated object. I was lead to believe that the whole interior of a pistol barrel can't be coated in this manner.

Infinity uses a Chemical Vapor Deposition process on their barrels which allows for the inside of the barrels to get fully coated. Gas infused with the material being coated to the part is pumped into a chamber that surrounds the part and reacts with it depositing the coating to the part. It is different than the physical vapor deposition coatings they do on the rest of the gun. PVD coatings are a line of sight coating process that would not allow for the entirety of the inside of the barrel to be coated. Depending on the material that is coated to the part, it will offer better lubricity, corrosion resistance, and wear properties. TiN is used on cutting tools frequently in the machining world to increase tool performance and life. It is quite hard. All of the CVD and PVD coatings used by Infinity increase corrosion resistance significantly.

The temperatures the parts see during CVD are typically higher than during PVD processes. The temperatures seen in coating processes range widely depending on the process and the material being coated to the part.

Yeah, what he says!! He learned it in College and applied it at the Factory......

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Kasteel   

What he says . . . indeed.

OK SV-COP, that sheds some light on the issue. The treatment should add significantly to barrel life of handgun barrels.

A couple questions to follow up: first, could the SV TiN process be used on rifle barrels? Second, how does the nitride process that Loki uses differ from the TiN process that SV uses?

Thanks for the input!

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What he says . . . indeed.

OK SV-COP, that sheds some light on the issue. The treatment should add significantly to barrel life of handgun barrels.

A couple questions to follow up: first, could the SV TiN process be used on rifle barrels? Second, how does the nitride process that Loki uses differ from the TiN process that SV uses?

Thanks for the input!

Rifle barrels are not well suited for CVD coating processes. Depending on the process there is a limit to how deep a hole can be coated based on the depth of the hole in increments of diameter. Most rifle barrels will exceed the that limit. Pistol barrels are better for it due to the larger caliber and shorter length. I am not fully familiar with Loki's nitriding process so I can not speak on it to any great detail. It appears to be a melonite type process that is less of a coating and more of a chemical surface finish treatment that improves the surface properties of the barrel. This process work better for rifle barrels because it is done in a salt bath instead of a gas chamber reactor. The process should be much more affordable, but would not provide nearly as high of a level of wear reduction or surface hardness improvement that a TiN coating would provide.

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We do salt bath nitirding at my work, but it is on molds and such, after being familiar with this process I would not recommed using it. Stay with the vapor or cyro treatment.

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Kasteel   

I've done just enough reading to be dangerous, I guess. There do appear to be several different processes of salt bath nitride. Is it possible that the process used on molds is different from that used on gun barrels?

For instance, from the comments by SV-COP, it appears that the TiN process would be great for pistol barrels, but not rifle barrels.

What is it about the process you use at work that gives you concerns for the effects on gun barrels?

Thanks for your input.

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