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Acceptable Time Frame to Post Scores


djeffers

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South River Gun Club scores 50-60 competitors (no pre-registration) shooting 6-7 stages on paper and we get results done while stages are being torn down and scores up on uspsa.org that evening. (Sometimes stopping by the clubhouse to glom onto their wifi to upload before we leave the range.)

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the last time I had an issue with the delay in getting scores out, I phrased the question like this to the match director, "Hey I noticed the scores taking a while" What can I do to help next time ?" He replied if I could just go through the squad's score sheets and make sure they are totaled at the end of the day. If one persone from each squad did that it would make things much easier on him.

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For you guys who can post scores before the end of the match - what is your process?

The stats guy at my club took on a new gig so I volunteered to take over the stats job. I almost always try to shoot the match on the setup day so I can run around and fill in the missing registration info and then start tallying scores during the match. I still spend a good many hours after the match doing data entry. If I have a helper reading the scores it speeds up the process but I haven't been able to get the scores out in under 24hrs.

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For you guys who can post scores before the end of the match - what is your process?

The stats guy at my club took on a new gig so I volunteered to take over the stats job. I almost always try to shoot the match on the setup day so I can run around and fill in the missing registration info and then start tallying scores during the match. I still spend a good many hours after the match doing data entry. If I have a helper reading the scores it speeds up the process but I haven't been able to get the scores out in under 24hrs.

Nothing special, and I score it all myself. We register on paper the day of the match, and it takes about 30 minutes to get them all into ezws, with all divisions and classifications noted and updated. There are separate scoresheets for each stage, so squads bring their paperwork to stats when they move from one bay to the next. (You people using 6 in 1 scoresheets obviously can't do that, and that's the only downside to that type of form.) Our folks know enough to write their competitor numbers on the scoresheets and everyone also totals the hits, and many total the times on multi-string stages. And it also helps that I can burn up a 10-key pad.

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A couple of clubs around here try and post the scores shortly after the match is complete. The stats guy shoots through at the start of the match, then heads to the computer and starts typing in scores. With 30-40 shooters they are usually done shortly after we are done tearing down the stages and putting the props away.

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You people using 6 in 1 scoresheets obviously can't do that, and that's the only downside to that type of form.

The choice of form probably follows the choice of how to score the match.....

In other words, those matches that have the scorekeeper shoot through, and score on the range, will quickly realize that they need stage dedicated scoresheets, and a delivery or pickup method to get them to stats.....

Those matches being scored at home later, probably benefit from the consistency of having a single piece of paper per competitor -- though the risk is that all scores for a particular competitor could be lost....

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I was wondering the same thing, until I took over stats/scoring for my local club. :roflol:

We had about 70 shooters last month, and all in all, it took about 8 hours to do the scores, that includes register, input new, go through score sheets, find missing info, enter scores, run reports.

Believe it or not, I don't know whats worse, not having columns totaled up, or the fact that some people can't add them up properly. Then there are the missing info scoresheets, scoresheets for whom their friends filled them out, etc. =)

So I can easily see why it takes some clubs a few weeks to post scores, especially if they don't use palms, and you don't have too much help. It is a volunteer sport, and I am just glad to help and give back some way to keep the matches going.

Maks,

that will get faster, as you gain experience. My method used to be to sort the scoresheets in alphabetical order by shooters last name, and then to review each sheet for correct totals. I'd do that while watching TV. Then I'd get everyone registered, and deal with the classification verification. Finally I'd enter scores, entering all scores for each competitor....

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To answer the original question: As a competitor I want results for the stage when I finish shooting it, and for the match before leaving the parking lot. How else can I bust my friends chops over dinner? Alas, that's a tad unrealistic -- but I certainly sympathize with the desire for fast results.

Having been on the other side -- as the guy doing stats, in addition to having directed the match, set a stage or two, and then having shot it and put it away -- I understand that there are sometimes other pressures, be they familial, school or work related. If any of those areas needed attention on Sunday night, it might be Monday at the earliest before I could get started. Given the amount of totaling/correcting/researching necessary, I might get to start registration at that point.

That would mean that wrapping up registration and entering scores might take another two nights -- so if I could work on this for three consecutive nights, we'd be looking at Tuesday night in an ideal scenario. Then back in the day, it meant sending an e-mail to ~50 people, so it would take a little while to find those contacts in my address book....

Given the pressures of the rest of my life, I was happy if I could get scores out by the following weekend.

While I'm supremely grateful for those efficient folks who manage it within a couple of days, I think anything within two weeks is acceptable from volunteers.....

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Somewhere else on the forum I brought up an idea of a swipe card, kinda like a credit card, that you would use for registering. Not that, that would make registering go any faster...it would make the expenses for USPSA HQ go up since they would have to print new cards (but when you moved up in class, they could theoretically save the printing and mailing expense of sending out a new card, which I have never seen anyone check at a match, anyway), and of course, at the club level, the club would have to buy a card reader and have some sort of interface with it, like an iPad.

I'm not really digging Palm pilot scoring. I think Rob or somebody else had chimed in and said that some application maker in Utah is working on either an iPhone or iPad app to do scoring.

EDITED to add this: we have somebody with a laptop with EZWin in our stats shack doing the registering as they are signing up and signing waivers and what not. it goes fast.

Edited by Chills1994
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For me, the real time sink is entering the scores and points especially with Steel Challenge where multiple runs/guns are common and there are five times per stage. I'd love to see an Open Source IOS/Android/QT app that could provide a fairly consistent interface across all of the major practical shooting disciplines (USPSA, IDPA, SCSA, etc). Hell, it would be great if a the timer was built right into the score keeping device. I think the big issue is finding a cheap device to use as a platform that every club could afford to buy in enough quantity to make the system viable.

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Somewhere else on the forum I brought up an idea of a swipe card, kinda like a credit card, that you would use for registering. Not that, that would make registering go any faster...it would make the expenses for USPSA HQ go up since they would have to print new cards (but when you moved up in class, they could theoretically save the printing and mailing expense of sending out a new card, which I have never seen anyone check at a match, anyway), and of course, at the club level, the club would have to buy a card reader and have some sort of interface with it, like an iPad.

I'm not really digging Palm pilot scoring. I think Rob or somebody else had chimed in and said that some application maker in Utah is working on either an iPhone or iPad app to do scoring.

EDITED to add this: we have somebody with a laptop with EZWin in our stats shack doing the registering as they are signing up and signing waivers and what not. it goes fast.

Actually, it doesn't have to be an expensive magnetic swipe card. It can be a simple individualized QR code like:

post-10187-0-76175300-1322773170_thumb.p

that encodes the following URL:

www.uspsa.org/uspsa-classifer-lookup-results.php?number=TY58436

Somebody has to do some printer hacking to make the current dot matrix printer at USPSA headquarters also print the QR code on the USPSA classification card.

If somebody loses their USPSA card, but they know their USPSA number, they can always regenerate a QR code like at sites like: http://qrcode.kaywa.com/

That's only part of the equation. The individual clubs still need a way to scan in the QR code, and that would still require some investment on the clubs part. If nobody has a smart phone to do the scanning, a brand new barcode scanner gun seems to run in the $300 range.

Edited by Skydiver
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If you have individual score sheets like Nats AND you have a stats crew doing the scoring you can get the scores out within the hour after the match is over doing paper scores.

If you use one of the Palm or potential IPad systems, you can do it just as fast but without the need to have all the print costs and the poor guy sitting inside scoring and trying to read the sheets. It does require that you have pre-registration OR that you have a very quick data entry person and you can load the palms immediately after registration closes. We find pre-reg works best as it also gives us an idea how the match needs to be built.

Jim

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It is actually an interesting idea, to have people registered into EZWS at signup, although that would mean I either do that or build a stage. :roflol:

Nik, It really was not bad at all to do it for CJ, 8 hours including TV/Dinner/learning the software. I am confident I can do it in half the time now, and may con the wifey into doing it at registration.

The other idea, is to see if there is a Palm OS emulator avail for the android phones that can be used to load the software/score.

Edited by Maksim
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No expected time frame. If they were paid to post scores, then maybe. Cut the volunteers a break.

Hey, I would just like to know a timeframe of when to expect them. I am NOT DEMANDING that they come in on a cetain day or a certain time. But, I do get your point.

I apologize, I was a bit too quick to respond, and I did so too harshly. I see more clearly now the purpose of the post and it's a good post.

Although I've never volunteered or helped in any way with the stats, I usually volunteer once a month to do a stage. Most of the time I could care less about the folks that never show up early to help with setup, but on occasion and when I've really busted my butt it really annoys me when some guy comes along and criticizes my stage that never shows up early for setup or never volunteers to do anything. With this in the back of my mind, that's probably why I was so quick to respond to the post.

I think a week or more to post scores is a bit too long, and that's when it's time to suggest some changes.

Thanks again for your post.

Chris

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No expected time frame. If they were paid to post scores, then maybe. Cut the volunteers a break.

Hey, I would just like to know a timeframe of when to expect them. I am NOT DEMANDING that they come in on a cetain day or a certain time. But, I do get your point.

I apologize, I was a bit too quick to respond, and I did so too harshly. I see more clearly now the purpose of the post and it's a good post.

Although I've never volunteered or helped in any way with the stats, I usually volunteer once a month to do a stage. Most of the time I could care less about the folks that never show up early to help with setup, but on occasion and when I've really busted my butt it really annoys me when some guy comes along and criticizes my stage that never shows up early for setup or never volunteers to do anything. With this in the back of my mind, that's probably why I was so quick to respond to the post.

I think a week or more to post scores is a bit too long, and that's when it's time to suggest some changes.

Thanks again for your post.

Chris

Don't worry about it. I could have reworded the post and used a word other than "acceptable" as it was the first thing that came to mind. I really didn't expect this much of a repsonse from everyone, but I am glad as a few ideas have been thrown around.

Addressing someone elses post, I did find a bar code scanner/reader for $60.00 and it came with some software....but I am not sure how user friendly it is.

I like the idea of an all in one device scores & a timer (brilliant)!

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yeah, that would be cool!

if it had "buttons" for the "alphas", bravos, charlies, deltas, and mikes, procedurals, no shoots, etc. that would be sweet.

EDITED to add: Skydiver and I posted at the same time, so that CED7000 Pro would be sweet. I wonder which printer they are using.

Edited by Chills1994
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It has buttons for A, C, D, M, and P. No-shoots, extra hit, extra shot, etc should be entered as P. Since USPSA scoring says B's and C's are equivalent, then the C button can used. I can't figure out how to enter late shots for a fixed time stage.

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For me, the real time sink is entering the scores and points especially with Steel Challenge where multiple runs/guns are common and there are five times per stage. I'd love to see an Open Source IOS/Android/QT app that could provide a fairly consistent interface across all of the major practical shooting disciplines (USPSA, IDPA, SCSA, etc). Hell, it would be great if a the timer was built right into the score keeping device. I think the big issue is finding a cheap device to use as a platform that every club could afford to buy in enough quantity to make the system viable.

Check out Saul Krish's web site. He has IPAD apps for both IPSIC and Steel challange scroing.

Double Alpha IPAD apps

MDA

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I really didn't expect this much of a repsonse from everyone

Ask a question around here and just sit back and watch the answers AND opinions just start flooding in.cheers.gif

It's how we roll!

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I run scores weekly for several different matches and twice a month for a couple bigger matches. I usually get them done the next day or 2. Like others have said, and I'm not saying the OP is, if your complaining about the time it takes the scores to get sent out the volunteer for the job. I'm sure the person that does the scores will gladly let you take it over. Same goes with anything you don't like, volunteer to be the one to do it and change it, if not DON"T COMPLAIN :cheers:

CorEy, I want to thank you for all the hard work you and your crew put in at BGSL matches. I know they are paper scores, and sometimes upwards of 50+ shooters, and everytime I have shot there, you have had them out within a day or 3, meaning you worked your butt off to get them out. Thanks very much! :cheers:

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I really didn't expect this much of a repsonse from everyone

Ask a question around here and just sit back and watch the answers AND opinions just start flooding in.cheers.gif

It's how we roll!

No kidding! I am going to have to unsubscribe to my own post. :roflol:

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  • 3 months later...

Match day is sunday. I like to have scores posted by monday night or tuesday afternoon. I took over scoring several yrs ago. Prior to taking the reins, scores took 2-3 weeks. I felt this was a total disservice to the integrity of the match, the club and the competitors.

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