BGREID Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Of course I check a gun I handle. I understand what you are saying. But if you see the mag come out before a round is ejected, where would the round come from? It doesn't matter where it (theoretically) might come from - we check, because that's what works. We're not supposed to assume, we use the procedures. For instance, we don't "assume" the gun is clear after ULSC, even after "seeing" them unload and even after looking in the chamber - we have them drop the hammer/striker to *prove* it. This isn't hard, and it isn't difficult, it's the right thing. And that's why I don't have to look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racerba Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 Of course I check a gun I handle. I understand what you are saying. But if you see the mag come out before a round is ejected, where would the round come from? Then why do you check a gun you handle when you just saw the person check before handing it to you???? You just saw them check it and there was no mag in the gun... What happen is that you get compliant...one time someone is gonna leave the mag in and you will just assume that they dropped the mag... I will still ask the shooter to show me clear again if I did not see the chamber...although they just hammer down and it didn't go bang... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarkeg Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 Of course I check a gun I handle. I understand what you are saying. But if you see the mag come out before a round is ejected, where would the round come from? It doesn't matter where it (theoretically) might come from - we check, because that's what works. We're not supposed to assume, we use the procedures. For instance, we don't "assume" the gun is clear after ULSC, even after "seeing" them unload and even after looking in the chamber - we have them drop the hammer/striker to *prove* it. This isn't hard, and it isn't difficult, it's the right thing. And that's why I don't have to look. And what RO/SO class taught you that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemphisMechanic Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 (edited) I'm smiling. Wanna see something really fun, ask a left handed shooter to do flip n catch without changing hands.You need more creative lefties. Do I need to make a video?Aim the muzzle about 20 degrees below horizontal and angled off to the right about 30 degrees. Gun laying almost on its side. Then grip the slide from underneath the dustcover with the index finger and thumb to "pinch rack" it at the right speed. Presto. The round flips up cleanly to be caught and only a slight bit of effort is required to avoid sweeping yourself - make sure your right hand comes around the right side of the gun to catch the flipped round, instead of passing around the front of the gun. Same thing a righty has a responsibility to learn to do if they want to catch ejected rounds. I always ALWAYS show clear after doing so, since no RO ever expects this move from a lefty, and there's not much chance they'll see the chamber is empty. I'm also the "rack 2-3 additional times before hammer down" guy. I'll flip & catch if I can do that safely. If I can't for some reason, I roll the gun so the right side is facing straight down and rack the gun overhand just behind the muzzle, slowly, so the round drops at my toes. THAT is a move righties have problems replicating. Using either of these techniques, my weak hand is well clear of the ejection port the entire time. Personally, that's what I want to ensure I avoid doing. Edited July 5, 2016 by MemphisMechanic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Youngeyes Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 Well that's 30 minutes of my life that I'll never get back... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 Well that's 30 minutes of my life that I'll never get back... Go spend a winter in Antarctica. ...that will make that 30 minutes seem like a split second, so you'll never miss it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tanks Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 I'm smiling. Wanna see something really fun, ask a left handed shooter to do flip n catch without changing hands.You need more creative lefties. Do I need to make a video? Please do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemphisMechanic Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 Here you go: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=236301 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teros135 Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 Bravo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weever82 Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 Being new I never would have guessed there is so much talk and issues with show and clear. Wow... glad I read it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaterHead Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 You really read all of this? Wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnkill Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 On 6/2/2011 at 4:36 PM, ima45dv8 said: Love it! +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnkill Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 On 6/5/2011 at 1:04 PM, juan said: how about we remove the mag and fire the last shot into the berm since its so dangerous otherwise I swear some people here work for OSHA. we can protect people from themselves. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnkill Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 On 10/16/2013 at 7:26 PM, Neomet said: I didn't witness but got the email. The comment as I read it was about people covering the ejection port with their hand as they remove the round. I don't believe this is the dreaded flip but rather where you see the shooter cover the ejection port with their weak hand as they slowly rack the slide so the round theoretically rolls out into their hand. I've seen someone frag their hand with this technique before. Did you see the event? Pete's note indicates it actually happened up on the main range. This sounds more likely that the extractor hit the primer as he let go of the slide Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnkill Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 On 8/11/2014 at 10:34 PM, Jim Norman said: Personally I do not like the Flip, Catch routine. I am sure that there have been a lot of uncalled DQs on people doing this. My 'routine' Droop the mag to my left and and pocket and then rack teh round out onto my hand, verify clear, shot the RO, point the gun downrange and drop the hammer. Then holster. I know it takes no more time and frankly is in my NSHO much safer than flip and catch. I've had some ro's I don't like but I've never shot the Ro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revoman Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 On 10/16/2013 at 6:26 PM, Neomet said: I didn't witness but got the email. The comment as I read it was about people covering the ejection port with their hand as they remove the round. I don't believe this is the dreaded flip but rather where you see the shooter cover the ejection port with their weak hand as they slowly rack the slide so the round theoretically rolls out into their hand. I've seen someone frag their hand with this technique before. Did you see the event? Pete's note indicates it actually happened up on the main range. 10 hours ago, jnkill said: This sounds more likely that the extractor hit the primer as he let go of the slide This happened to me as I was clearing a 10mm Colt Delta Elite. I did not let the slide go and the round went off as soon as I had the slide partially open. The round went down the barrel and down range and the majority of the brass ended up in the knuckle of my weak hand thumb. Brass shows up real good in x rays. Last time I ever did that and when I see people do it I kindly show them my thumb and give them some friendly advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauldierickx Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 On 5/31/2011 at 3:11 PM, aztecdriver said: No rule I know of. I'm mixed. I've see a lot do this, I don't like it because you take your attention off the gun and I've seen a few people reach out and almost sweep themselves. As far as the mechanics of jacking the round out like that - I think it's much safer than that slow, hand roll over the top of the gun that some people contort all around to show clear afterwards. Personally I hold it straight out with a slight elbow bend and sharply yank it back. Usually it's somewhere near the RO or it smacks them in the chest. If they want to catch it - it's fine. Otherwise, I know where it went. Although - if I were shooting 18 stages of 38SC - I can understand not wanting to leave 1/3 of a box of ammo lying on the ground. Most that I've seen do this do it fairly easily - and if they have any problem catching the round - they don't bother trying trying to recover the catch. Agreed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StratRider Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 I didn't read every post but I have practiced doing this with snapcaps and didn't do it at a match until I was sure that I could also lock the slide open during the move. And another bravo for the video of the lefty doing the catch, but now I'd like to see that with a slide locked open too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tattooo Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 I just watch where it lands and pick it up afterwards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyops Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 On 8/3/2017 at 8:44 AM, tattooo said: I just watch where it lands and pick it up afterwards That...exactly!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Norman Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 On 8/11/2014 at 10:34 PM, Jim Norman said: Personally I do not like the Flip, Catch routine. I am sure that there have been a lot of uncalled DQs on people doing this. My 'routine' Droop the mag to my left and and pocket and then rack teh round out onto my hand, verify clear, shot the RO, point the gun downrange and drop the hammer. Then holster. I know it takes no more time and frankly is in my NSHO much safer than flip and catch. On 8/1/2017 at 9:17 AM, jnkill said: I've had some ro's I don't like but I've never shot the Ro OK, So I can't type SHOW the RO that the gun is Clear, then... I also DROP the magazine, not Droop(?) it, what ever that is. Seriously, The flip and catch is showboating. I really dislike it. Yes there are some real acrobats out there, but then Ned New Guy sees this and tries it an we have an ISSUE. Hopefully only a DQ, but it could be a lot worse. ULSC is NOT a timed event, Draw fast, Holster S L O W! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemphisMechanic Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Jim Norman said: Seriously, The flip and catch is showboating. I really dislike it. Yes there are some real acrobats out there, but then Ned New Guy sees this and tries it an we have an ISSUE. Thats a wonderful straw-man you've set up there. We better not shoot faster than the novices, shoot on the move because they might trip attempting it, or draw in less than a second. Imagine all the novices blowing holes in their own feet - the horror! I flip the round clear safely and cleanly, and it has nothing to do with showboating. The alternatives are to hope you can find it on the ground, or to cup the ejection port, which actually has resulted in documented injuries when the primer freakishly hit the ejector. Edited August 10, 2017 by MemphisMechanic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B_RAD Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 (edited) I Don't think the flip and catch is "showboating" It's just my preferred way to get the round out of the gun without bend over and pick it up. I flip and catch but make sure I don't reach out for one that flies in front of my muzzle, which does/has happend. I rack the slide so that I launch the bullet torwards the rear. I use the rear cocking serrations and that helps. Which brings up my real pet peeve. All these timmies wanting to look cool by using the front serrations with this lame thumb thing. Look like a bunch of slack jaw fa@&ts if you ask me. Ok. Kidding. I don't care about that either. I agree with Memphis that the cup over the ejection port actually causing accidental boom booms. Edited August 10, 2017 by B_RAD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrackCage Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 As another wrong-handed specimen, I simply put the pistol in my right hand and flip-n-catch. I've never tried the lefty technique referenced in video, and my method works fine for me. Then I just pull the trigger with the gun still in my right hand, pinch the back of the slide with my left (dominant) hand to get it back in the holster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shootin-blanks Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 I can't believe this thread is still going for over 6 years.. anyways,, I think it's dangerous.. I turn the gun clockwise to face the ejection port toward the ground and eject the round. I don't let RO's try and catch it and neither do I. I just leave it on the ground.. your welcome to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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