9mm Major Load Data

[matt2ace]

Did a subjective test last night that was interesting.

Had 4 different 9mm Major loads all with 124 gr bullets out of a Bedell full size gun. (AA#7, AutoComp, 7625, and True Blue)

Had a buddy load 2 rounds in a mag and write down the order. I did not know the order I just told which one I thought felt the best. We did this 3 times and he would switch the order each time and again I would not know the order. Each time I picked the autocomp load first followed by the True Blue load second. 7625 was a close second but really fell into third place. All I would do if shoot the gun watching the dot and feeling the recoil impulse.

I want to do the same test using AutoComp, HS-6 and Longshot next.

I am doing something very similar with Silhouette (7.8gr), Autocomp (7.2gr), and AA#7(10.2gr) I have not done the blind test yet. My first impression is that Autocomp has the most consistent dot track, but AA7 was the softest. I did try TB but found it had more felt recoil than any of the other powders I am comparing. I am using MGD 124 CMJ with all loads making 169-170PF. I run 1.185 OAL and once-fired RP cases and Wolf SPM primers. I am shooting a Gans built 5 inch gun with no barrel holes. I post my impressions to compare to yours.

Edited February 26, 2010 by matt2ace

[8082011]

Just wanted to check with paulw and matt2race on how the blind test of the different powders were doing and if there's any updates. thanks.

[CocoBolo]

Just back from testing and Chrono work. 9 mm Major. Gun is STI with 4.30" no poppel holes with Brazos ThunderCompSX aka a shorty with full length recoil system.

125gr Zero JHP set at 1.140 temp 70 (all 10 shot runs) MagTech small pistol primers.

N350 6.8gr avg 1241 fps 155pf ES 47 SD 15

AutoComp 7.0gr Avg 1361 ES 32 SD 10 pf 17212

AA#7 9.8gr avg 1324 ES 18 SD 6 PF 165.5

HS6 8.1gr Avg 1312 ES 42 SD 14 pf 164

3N37 7.8gr Avg 1354 pf 169.250 ES 22 SD ?

115gr Zero RN set at 1.155

HS6 8.8gr Avg 1429 ES 47 SD 15 pf 164.335

Perceptions: HS6 wins for softest and has good dot tracking. Autocomp comes in second, and AA#7 third because of more straight back recoil. 3N37 comes in next with more filp and recoil than the other three but non the less a shootable load. N350 gets no rank since it was way minor.

The 115gr HS6 load reminds me a lot of a N105 load in a 38 Super full size gun, very flat with little dot movement, I'm talking stays in the a zone, the straight back recoil is about like 3n37 above.

No pressue signs on any of the loads. The HS6 8.8 was strting to take the edges off the primer.

The bottom line is with 125gr load HS6, AutoComp, and AA#7 are almost the same its very hard to tell the difference. I did a couple runs on plate racks with rounds mixed up in 2's and 3's and could not tell difference which speaks will of Autocomp since it was the highest PF.

If the SD's look odd I loaded these on a Hornady LNL, and I think the powder measure is just a little more consistent.

[matt2ace]

Ran my first side-by-side comparison of Silhouette (7.7gr), Autocomp (7.2gr), and AA7 (10.2gr).

All loads used 124gr MGD CMJ, Wolf SPM primers, 1.185 OAL, and RP once-fired brass.

Ran all loads through a CED chrono with IR source. All load come in at 169-171PF through my full lenght Gan's gun.

First impression puts AA7 as best for dot movement and feel (softness).

Autocomp has stronger recoil feel, but dot movement is very nice (almost equal to AA7)

Silhouette, not as snappy as Autocomp, dot movement a bit more than either.

In my experience to date, I would say it is a toss-up with AA7 my choice so far. I am going to try AA7 at my next match and continue to compare the 3 powders. Silhouette has been my powder of choice for 3 years, but I have experienced occasional pressure signs (bulged cases) which I have not observed in Autocomp or AA7 to date.

Edited March 22, 2010 by matt2ace

[BigTinVA]

125gr Zero JHP set at 1.140 temp 70 (all 10 shot runs) MagTech small pistol primers.

HS6 8.8gr Avg 1429 ES 47 SD 15 pf 164.335

No pressue signs on any of the loads. The HS6 8.8 was strting to take the edges off the primer.

That seems like a pretty healthy dose of HS-6 under that 125gr bullet especially at that OAL. I'm surprised that you still came in sub-major with that load. I know all guns are different, but am I way off base here?

[Xfactor]

Ran my first side-by-side comparison of Silhouette (7.7gr), Autocomp (7.2gr), and AA7 (10.2gr).

All loads used 124gr MGD CMJ, Wolf SPM primers, 1.185 OAL, and RP once-fired brass.

Ran all loads through a CED chrono with IR source. All load come in at 169-171PF through my full lenght Gan's gun.

First impression puts AA7 as best for dot movement and feel (softness).

Autocomp has stronger recoil feel, but dot movement is very nice (almost equal to AA7)

Silhouette, not as snappy as Autocomp, dot movement a bit more than either.

In my experience to date, I would say it is a toss-up with AA7 my choice so far. I am going to try AA7 at my next match and continue to compare the 3 powders. Silhouette has been my powder of choice for 3 years, but I have experienced occasional pressure signs (bulged cases) which I have not observed in Autocomp or AA7 to date.

Interesting - thanks Matt.

I guess AA#7 is pretty dense if you can fit 10.2 gr into a 9mm case without having to compress it with the bullet (?)

[CocoBolo]

125gr Zero JHP set at 1.140 temp 70 (all 10 shot runs) MagTech small pistol primers.

HS6 8.8gr Avg 1429 ES 47 SD 15 pf 164.335

No pressue signs on any of the loads. The HS6 8.8 was strting to take the edges off the primer.

That seems like a pretty healthy dose of HS-6 under that 125gr bullet especially at that OAL. I'm surprised that you still came in sub-major with that load. I know all guns are different, but am I way off base here?

It is what it is the Crono tells the story. The sharp recoil of the 115 doesn't go with my shooting style so for now I'm going to stick with the 125gr loads, and in the end it will be either HS6 or AA#7 just need to get both of those up to 170pf and test accuracy. I also want to sample some Silhoutte which works well with 115gr.

[BigTinVA]

125gr Zero JHP set at 1.140 temp 70 (all 10 shot runs) MagTech small pistol primers.

HS6 8.8gr Avg 1429 ES 47 SD 15 pf 164.335

No pressue signs on any of the loads. The HS6 8.8 was strting to take the edges off the primer.

That seems like a pretty healthy dose of HS-6 under that 125gr bullet especially at that OAL. I'm surprised that you still came in sub-major with that load. I know all guns are different, but am I way off base here?

It is what it is the Crono tells the story. The sharp recoil of the 115 doesn't go with my shooting style so for now I'm going to stick with the 125gr loads, and in the end it will be either HS6 or AA#7 just need to get both of those up to 170pf and test accuracy. I also want to sample some Silhoutte which works well with 115gr.

Roger that! I just wanted to ask the question. Thanks.

[Alan Adamson]

I'm really not an expert, as I've simply been doing this far too short of time.

However, I ran a couple of tests as well - just felt tests - in a 5" no holes, 3 port, 2 side port comp gun.

I ran 10 each - 7.16g AutoComp, 10gr AA7, and shot some rounds from AAA that I'm fairly sure use a commercial powder from Win called 248. I also ran some 7.2g AutoComp

All my rounds were in

WCC brass - all casepro sized prior to reloading

with 124g MG JHP bullets

CCI SP Primers

@ 1.175 oal

All the above but the AAA rounds were *hand trickled* and triple checked for powder weight, all were then seated and crimped on a Dillon 1050 with Redding comp seating and dillon crimp( just to take the bell away)

All made 168-172 PF in my gun.

Just some observations while shooting on the chrono.

AutoComp 7.16gr

High: 1381.0 171.2

Low: 1353.0 167.8

E.S.: 28.0

Ave.: 1370.1 169.9

S.D.: 8.5

95%: 6.7

AutoComp 7.2gr

High: 1405.0 174.2

Low: 1347.0 167.0

E.S.: 58.0

Ave.: 1383.4 171.5

S.D.: 15.4

95%: 12.3

AAA Ammo

High: 1394.0 172.9

Low: 1334.0 165.4

E.S.: 60.0

Ave.: 1366.3 169.4

S.D.: 15.8

95%: 12.6

AA7

High: 1391.0 172.5

Low: 1346.0 166.9

E.S.: 45.0

Ave.: 1357.7 168.4

S.D.: 12.4

95%: 9.9

NOTES:

a) the most consistent in E.S and S.D was the 7.16 AutoComp load, it was also almost dead nuts on the 170 mark that I wanted in my gun

the softest feeling of the bunch was also both AutoComp loads (note I didn't say *flattest* feeling)

c) the AAA and AA7 rounds were significantly *harsher* in recoil

d) neither AutoComp loads showed any signs of over pressure, the primers were still rounded on the edges

e) both the AAA and the AA7 rounds show a very small amount of flatting on the primers, still rounded, but you could see a noticeable different between them and the AutoComp rounds. No of these rounds showed any extreme pressure signs

f) the AA7 rounds showed a little bit of bulging on the sides, but this was inconclusive, it happened to also be approximately consistent with where the sizing mark was on the brass, so it made for a bit of an optical illusion - more testing needed

I'm not a good enough shooter (C - very close to to judge *flatness*, I also have been shooting AutoComp for a few months, so it is somewhat ingrained in my muscle memory. I also didn't run enough of the AAA or the AA7 to answer the clean/dirty question. AutoComp is very clean and while about every 500 rounds I need to clean the comp, it's a fairly simple thing to do.

As another point of reference, this gun is a Nov 09 new JVDynamics 9Major gun. It has something less than about 1K rounds thru it... probably not even broken in. It also runs all day long on an 8lb recoil spring.

Just figured I'd share,

Alan

[BMartens]

What was the outside air temperature?

Does AutoComp show temperature sensitivity?

Your results are almost axactly what I am seeing with WSF but, WSF is certainly reverse temp sensitive.

[CocoBolo]

the softest feeling of the bunch was also both AutoComp loads (note I didn't say *flattest* feeling)

c) the AAA and AA7 rounds were significantly *harsher* in recoil

d) neither AutoComp loads showed any signs of over pressure, the primers were still rounded on the edges

e) the AA7 rounds showed a little bit of bulging on the sides, but this was inconclusive, it happened to also be approximately consistent with where the sizing mark was on the brass, so it made for a bit of an optical illusion - more testing needed

Your testing numbers are right in with mine and I agree with almost everything you have stated. The exception is in the soft and flat. I found AA#7 to be a little softer and flatter than AutoComp.

I am loading 7.0 AutoComp with 125 @ 1.160 and AA#7 at 10gr @ 1.180 with a 125. Both are right at or just above 170 pf. The MagTech SPP I am using were looking a little flat with the AA#7. You can bet the brass is a little streched but I just leave it for the vultures.

Sunday at a match I ran out of my AA#7 loads so I had two mags with mixed up bullets, some AutoComp some AA#7. I shot the mix in the last stage and never noticed any difference.

[Alan Adamson]

What was the outside air temperature?

Does AutoComp show temperature sensitivity?

Your results are almost axactly what I am seeing with WSF but, WSF is certainly reverse temp sensitive.

I've shot the above from about 30degrees F to 75degrees, nothing too hot yet.

So far, not seeing any temp stability issues, but still need more data there.

Alan

[Alan Adamson]

the softest feeling of the bunch was also both AutoComp loads (note I didn't say *flattest* feeling)

c) the AAA and AA7 rounds were significantly *harsher* in recoil

d) neither AutoComp loads showed any signs of over pressure, the primers were still rounded on the edges

e) the AA7 rounds showed a little bit of bulging on the sides, but this was inconclusive, it happened to also be approximately consistent with where the sizing mark was on the brass, so it made for a bit of an optical illusion - more testing needed

Your testing numbers are right in with mine and I agree with almost everything you have stated. The exception is in the soft and flat. I found AA#7 to be a little softer and flatter than AutoComp.

I am loading 7.0 AutoComp with 125 @ 1.160 and AA#7 at 10gr @ 1.180 with a 125. Both are right at or just above 170 pf. The MagTech SPP I am using were looking a little flat with the AA#7. You can bet the brass is a little streched but I just leave it for the vultures.

Sunday at a match I ran out of my AA#7 loads so I had two mags with mixed up bullets, some AutoComp some AA#7. I shot the mix in the last stage and never noticed any difference.

Ronnie,

That's really good to know... it could be this gun as well on the felt side... It's a bit heavier than my MCG version, one uses a bull barrel/comp the other a cone comp. And they both have different comp designs.... However, in shooting AC, I find the dot track better in the JV gun than the MCG version, it's pretty much straight up and down while I get a bit of side to side in the MCG version, both with the same AC load - hence all my testing of late is using my Jojo gun.... I'll move back at some point just for a reference.

Alan

Edited March 29, 2010 by Alan Adamson

[CocoBolo]

Alan - My most recent round of testing was at 88 just shy of being hot. In my dot tracking testing the AC tended to bounce a bit and the AA#7 was just up and down very trackable. After testing and before the match I added a tungsten guide rod to balance the gun a little better and put a 11# recoil spring in it, I could not find a 10# what I usually start tuning with. It is a 4.25" shorty cone with a Brazos it tamed it consideralby. Before the match my smith shot it and his only comment was you better crono again no way that thing is making major (172 pf), he could not tell the difference in AC & AA7 either, ok what he said in english is it shot soft like a minor load. Then I handed him my 38 Super 5" with Bedel Ti at 175 pf load in it again much softer than his gun also AA#7 10.5gr. He is shooting TruBlue in his gun, go figure.

The true test is on the timer, running drills, that will be the next round in testing soon as I get time.

[kgunz11]

Susan wants me to load up some 9Major for her shorty. It's a 9Minor gun at the moment but I plan to spring it to handle the major loads. Bullets will be 124gr MG CMJ's and I'll load up both Silhouette and 3N37. Read this entire thread start to finish tonight and the only thing I learned from you guys is none of you can agree on anything!

I'll contribute to the thread with my results.

Loads will be with CCI SP Primers loaded to a COAL of 1.170" and shot through a PVN-21 chronograph. When I find one that makes pf I'll load up some and take her to the range to let her decide which one she wants to shoot. If it were me, I'd stay with the 4.6gr of N320!!! :roflol:

3N37

7.4

7.6

7.8

8.0

8.2

8.4

8.6

8.8

Silhouette

7.4

7.6

7.8

8.0

8.2

8.4

8.6

8.8

[Alan Adamson]

Susan wants me to load up some 9Major for her shorty. It's a 9Minor gun at the moment but I plan to spring it to handle the major loads. Bullets will be 124gr MG CMJ's and I'll load up both Silhouette and 3N37. Read this entire thread start to finish tonight and the only thing I learned from you guys is none of you can agree on anything!

I'll contribute to the thread with my results.

Loads will be with CCI SP Primers loaded to a COAL of 1.170" and shot through a PVN-21 chronograph. When I find one that makes pf I'll load up some and take her to the range to let her decide which one she wants to shoot. If it were me, I'd stay with the 4.6gr of N320!!! :roflol:

3N37

7.4

7.6

7.8

8.0

8.2

8.4

8.6

8.8

Silhouette

7.4

7.6

7.8

8.0

8.2

8.4

8.6

8.8

I've shot both above and wouldn't even waste my time...

go to 7.1g of Autocomp at 1.175 with a MG 124 JHP - mixed brass, runs 100% in both my 5" guns (means you might have to go to a bit more powder), very clean and 172PF at A6 this past weekend. 171PF at SC Championships weekend prior.

YMMV

Alan

[CocoBolo]

the only thing I learned from you guys is none of you can agree on anything!

Kgunz - You wrong. I'll agree with that 3n37 is a bit violent (7.8 will get you in the zone), and AutoComp puts out more gas and less recoil and will shoot softer and flatter, it seems fairly clean. Depending on the comp you have you will find one powder better than the next. I'm shooting two loads AutoComp @7.0 and AA#7 @10gr. I can't tell them apart. Its a shorty 4.25 with Barzos ThunderComp II no holes, I went to a 11# recoil spring + tungsten guide rod, it runs nice with a 10#, but with a 9 it starts to jump a bit. Everyone that shot the gun (and they are all open shooters) gets a big grin and says sweet, or No way that is major.

The only other powder I think might be a better choice is HS6, I started testing with it but ran out of it. I was at 8.8gr with a 115 and it was super flat but just under PF. We all know its dirty but heck got to clean the gun anyway. I've been using AA#7 for a year and it is chunky dirty unless you use enough, I punched my load up for a Bedell comp and it now runs clean, and others say they can't finish a match without stopping to clean the gun.

[JorDanO]

Alan, that's just about the same AutoComp load I use, and my results are really close to yours. I really like the stuff.

[Too_Slow]

STI Trubor, MG 121 IFP, WSR, 8.56 gr. HS6, various headstamps at 1.18 +/-.002. ES 16 at 171 PF. It feels really good. Now I just need to load some more up to be able to shoot it in Sundays match.

Brian

Edited April 23, 2010 by Too_Slow

[kgunz11]

OK, I have a large quantity of AutoComp and HS6 on the way.

[eric nielsen]

Once you get a load that you really like, take an empty mag & try this:

Put in 4 rounds of your pet load with nickel cases. Then 4 rounds of brass. Then 4 more nickel, then 4 more brass.

Shoot that mag, 4 at a time, paying attention only to what the dot does.

[kgunz11]

Well I just went to the range with Susan's gun and shot some of Boz's HS6 load and the Autocomp load. Don't know Boz's load but the Autocomp had 7.3gr in Win brass with CCI SP primers loaded to 1.170 and it was 175pf. Both this load and Boz's load were indistinguishable from each other, but his load barely made major in her 4.25" gun.

Neither of them were anywhere close to the load that we shot Saturday that I got from a friend. It registered 176pf and was by far the softest shooting major load I have ever seen/shot. Matter of fact, the first 5 rounds I fired were not through the chrono but at a target. I fired one shot into one of the targets and it was so soft I double taped the other 4 into the other 2 targets. All were snake eyes in the center A zone of a turtle target. I would have sworn the loads would not make major. I shot them through the chrono and was shocked to see it went 176.2 pf across 3 different chronos at the same time! Nothing else even came close. Unfortunately, this powder is no longer being imported and is impossible to get now. It's the old SP2, and I feel in love with it!

It actually had ME consider shooting Open!!!

I guess the next step is in finding something very close in burn rate to the SP2. Any of you more distinguished gentleman that use to shoot SP2 know of anything like it?

[CocoBolo]

Well I just went to the range with Susan's gun and shot some of Boz's HS6 load and the Autocomp load. Don't know Boz's load but the Autocomp had 7.3gr in Win brass with CCI SP primers loaded to 1.170 and it was 175pf. Both this load and Boz's load were indistinguishable from each other, but his load barely made major in her 4.25" gun.

Neither of them were anywhere close to the load that we shot Saturday that I got from a friend. It registered 176pf and was by far the softest shooting major load I have ever seen/shot. Matter of fact, the first 5 rounds I fired were not through the chrono but at a target. I fired one shot into one of the targets and it was so soft I double taped the other 4 into the other 2 targets. All were snake eyes in the center A zone of a turtle target. I would have sworn the loads would not make major. I shot them through the chrono and was shocked to see it went 176.2 pf across 3 different chronos at the same time! Nothing else even came close. Unfortunately, this powder is no longer being imported and is impossible to get now. It's the old SP2, and I feel in love with it!

It actually had ME consider shooting Open!!!

I guess the next step is in finding something very close in burn rate to the SP2. Any of you more distinguished gentleman that use to shoot SP2 know of anything like it?

My shorty responded very well to increasing the recoil spring rate. With a 9# the gun is wild and harry, with a 10# it settles down a lot, and hapiness happens at 11#. You should do some spring rate testing with the load. I'm running a Brazos Thunder comp and the gun just shoots great, no holes it is just 4.25" and no buffer. It makes 1368 fps avg with 7.0gr of AutoComp set 1.160 125gr Zero JHP. Its a Clark barrel with 2K rounds on it. I also put a tungsten guide rod in it, which made it even a tick tamer but still lighter than most guns.

[kgunz11]

I'll put a heavier spring in it in the morning, but I still can't get over how soft SP2 was the way it sits now. It does appear to be a bit slower than Autocomp and maybe the lack of a sharp rap to the hand had an influence on the overall feel of the gun. It had considerably less recoil than my .40 which I had just put down. As I said, I was shocked.

[seba1976]

CZ 75 Champion 9mm

Powder: SP-2 Practical - 8,2 grain

Bullet: 125 grain RNSBBNG - ARES Slovakia

Brass: used S&B, CCI, GECO.

Primers: Remington, CCI.

OAL: 29,2 mm +/-0,1mm

Velocity: 1320-1330 ftp/s

PF: 165

Regards

Sebastian

Edited May 6, 2010 by seba1976