Dillon 650 primer seating problem

[alpha-charlie]

I've noticed that I have alot of problems properly seating a primer on my 650. I would say 1 out of 10 does not seat at all or gets "crushed." I'm using mixed brass and there is no pattern as to which type of brass it affects the most. I'm using Federal small pistol primers. I use a slow controlled motion when reloading and complete follow through when seating primers. Sometimes it seems that the casing isn't lined up properly on station 2. Anyone encounter this before or have any ideas? Are Federals known to be difficult? Also, I've noticed every once and awhile that the downstroke is difficult. So much so, that it feels like something is blocking it. To fix this I have to loosen the shell plate and frees everything up. Is this normal??

[BritinUSA]

There should be enough movement in the shell plate to allow it to rotate smoothly but not enough to wobble. Check the spring tension on the priming station, it should not actually touch the case when it is in the shell plate.

You don't mention what caliber you are loading, if .38 SuperComp are you using the correct shell plate for SuperComp or are you using the regular .38Super shellplate?

[Rolex]

You may also have to adjust the shell plate.

Look in the Dillon book-you have to do this

from the left side of the press-where the

tray would go to hold buletts.

[benos]

From my Dillon notesheet:

650 Rotary Priming System Adjustment Notes

• Periodically (every 10,000 rounds or whenever you change primer size) lube the Axel Pin (in the middle of the primer disc) with grease.
  
• Make sure the primer seating punch / bushing assembly is threaded all the way up into the platform. The top of the bushing should be flush with the platform.
  
• The primer seating punch should be between flush with the top of the bushing to .020" below the top. There's no adjustment, it would be out of spec because of a collapsed spring or it's dirty.
  
• Clean the interior of the primer magazine tube periodically. (Small cleaning patch with alcohol.)
  
• If the disc doesn't rotate full travel (the primer hole in the disc isn't lined up with the primer seating punch) there are 3 possible causes:
  
  1. Short stroke on the handle is the most likely.
     
  2. Either wear to the primer cam, or the primer index arm is damaged.
     
  3. If the primer index arm fails to return, either the srping is damaged or the arm is bent.
     

  [*]If an unused primer doesn't fall out of the primer disc, that can be a problem. Polish each end of each primer hole with a tapered cratex wheel/Dremel Tool.

Also, more here in a Forum thread on 650 priming:

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=68532

be

[benos]

Also, since you said:

Sometimes it seems that the casing isn't lined up properly on station 2.

I'm wondering if the Shellplate is advancing all the way every time. That would cause what you described.

And no, Federal primers will not be causing the problem.

be

[MarcusT]

I have used federal CCI and win primers and have noticed that federal primers are much easier to crush than CCI or win. Most of the crushed Fed primers I have had has been on S&B brass but CCI's seat without crushing in S&B.I'm not saying that is your problem just letting you know my experience.

Edited June 8, 2010 by MarcusT

[mildot1]

I'm in disagreement with the locator arm not touching the case. I was crushing the piss out of primers and finally figured out the case was not being pushed into the shell plate. Bent the arm till I had tension and problem went away!!

Good Luck

Mildot

[alpha-charlie]

You were right Mildot1, it was the locator arm. I bent it in just a little bit and loaded 500 rounds with no problem. Thanks again.

CLOSED

[Frankied65]

I been having the same problem but only with 9mm wcc military brass, when i try to prime the primer crusches of goes in sideways, but when i load Blazer or Luger brass i'm fine. I have used CCI #500 and Winchester magnum small pistol primers and get the same effect. The primers actually blew and ruined my priming assembly and Dillon replaced it. Dillon says it's the wcc military brass and it must be swaged before priming it, is this true? The priming seat does look smaller then the Blazer & ruger priming seat??

[GuildSF4]

If it is has crimped in primers then swaging or reaming needed to allow good seating of new primers.

Image below, left on un-crimped, center most common crimped, right different style crimped.

Edited March 12, 2013 by GuildSF4

[BBBB]

My preferred solution to both S&B and WCC brass is the trash can. I have the tools to both swage them and ream them but at some point decided that either option was more trouble than it was worth considering the cost of 9mm brass, the amount of trouble, and the fact that roughly 5% of what I end up with falls in this category.

[relaoder]

I tried to load 200 .223 LC brass, I used the RCBS swadger tool on all of them and ended up still reaming them out. I still had about 15 with crushed primers. I think I will just prime the .223 brass first.

[Bunchies95]

When you have a piece of military brass sneak in and get primed, how easy is it to clear? With my 550, I just crank the handle again to press out the smashed primer (after removing the case in the powder drop station of course), remove the offending case and keep on going. But the 650 priming location is after the shell plate has indexed. I'm looking to upgrade to a 650, this is my only concern.

Of course I could always sort my brass better, but ain't nobody got time for that.

[GuildSF4]

It can be easily removed from station 2, the spring arm moves enough to allow you to remove the case.

[Boxerglocker]

When you have a piece of military brass sneak in and get primed, how easy is it to clear? With my 550, I just crank the handle again to press out the smashed primer (after removing the case in the powder drop station of course), remove the offending case and keep on going. But the 650 priming location is after the shell plate has indexed. I'm looking to upgrade to a 650, this is my only concern.

Of course I could always sort my brass better, but ain't nobody got time for that.

As stated the crimped military case can easily be removed at station 2 prior to priming and the powder dropped.

I’m one of those OCD… I hate to waste primers type of guys. I’ve been running a XL650 for quite a while now and all I ever load is mixed brass S&B, WCC included. What I have found is with a well maintained press. Meaning all the recommendations given above by Brian as well as ensuring that everything is well greased at the presses pivot and sliding point along with the use of HOS on my brass. The sensitivity to feeling any abnormal pressure to seat primers is greatly increased.

I load 400-500 rounds at a rate of 6-7 minutes per a hundred on average, with a smooth rhythm. When pushing forward to seat a primer I can literally feel the extra resistance and can stop, pull the case, confirm the issue (most of the time a crimped pocket) and then replace with a previously sized case that I keep a number of in a small bin under my completed cartridge bin. At every loading session I always run an extra 10-12 cases through the sizing and decap die to have then at the ready for the next session. After a while every 3-4 sessions, I will take a few minutes to cut the crimps off the collected brass with crimped primers using a VLD bit on my Horandy case prep center. I really don’t see the need to toss away usable brass, I don’t even have issues with S&B most of the time.

[Intel6]

My preferred solution to both S&B and WCC brass is the trash can. I have the tools to both swage them and ream them but at some point decided that either option was more trouble than it was worth considering the cost of 9mm brass, the amount of trouble, and the fact that roughly 5% of what I end up with falls in this category.

I save mine up and use them as jackets to swage into .40 bullets!

Pictures of before and after being shot at steel

Neal in AZ

[Franco79]

I load 400-500 rounds at a rate of 6-7 minutes per a hundred on average, with a smooth rhythm. When pushing forward to seat a primer I can literally feel the extra resistance and can stop, pull the case, confirm the issue (most of the time a crimped pocket) and then replace with a previously sized case that I keep a number of in a small bin under my completed cartridge bin.

I agree..

[L3324temp]

Quote

I load 400-500 rounds at a rate of 6-7 minutes per a hundred on average, with a smooth rhythm. When pushing forward to seat a primer I can literally feel the extra resistance and can stop, pull the case, confirm the issue (most of the time a crimped pocket)

Quote

I operate very similar to this. I get a good amount of crimped brass. When I "feel" one it comes out, gets reamed with the drill I keep next to the press, and goes right back in. The primer then slips right in. I no longer take the time to sort the crimped brass out and have loaded thousands of rounds this way.

Edited July 12, 2013 by L3324temp

[rufous03]

Switched my XL650 from 9mm to .45ACP, can't seem to get the primers to seat properly ,most go in sideways a few upside down.  I have disassembled and reassembled numerous times still have the problem.  if I watch the primer load on the seater without a case, it appears as though it catches on the side of the shell plate and flips.  Tried various things, but so far no success,Anyone encounter this problem?

[rishii]

Did you change out the large primer primer seater to the small one

[itlogo]

I had this same problem of primers being crammed in sideways, and couldn't figure out what was going on.  I took [most] everything apart, cleaned and lubed, and reassembled, but continued to get four or more primers (per 100) go in sideways.  Finally, I stumbled upon what the problem was for me--my left hand was preventing the shell plate from indexing completely into position when I set the bullet in station #3.  Since I set the bullet by hand, sometimes my left hand would get ahead of the plate and I'd get the bullet on the shell before it reached #3.  This inadvertently slowed down the shell plate and when it reached its position, it would be slightly misaligned with the primer plunger.

 

When I pushed forward to seat the primer, the left edge of it would catch the side of the primer pocket and it would get turned sideways.  When I realized this and stopped reaching for the shell early, voila, no more sideways primers!

[jhgtyre]

11 hours ago, itlogo said:

I had this same problem of primers being crammed in sideways, and couldn't figure out what was going on.  I took [most] everything apart, cleaned and lubed, and reassembled, but continued to get four or more primers (per 100) go in sideways.  Finally, I stumbled upon what the problem was for me--my left hand was preventing the shell plate from indexing completely into position when I set the bullet in station #3.  Since I set the bullet by hand, sometimes my left hand would get ahead of the plate and I'd get the bullet on the shell before it reached #3.  This inadvertently slowed down the shell plate and when it reached its position, it would be slightly misaligned with the primer plunger.

 

 

When I pushed forward to seat the primer, the left edge of it would catch the side of the primer pocket and it would get turned sideways.  When I realized this and stopped reaching for the shell early, voila, no more sideways primers!

Did you cut, or change, the spring or ball detent under the shell plate?

[Miranda]

On 7/11/2013 at 3:24 PM, Intel6 said:

I save mine up and use them as jackets to swage into .40 bullets!

Pictures of before and after being shot at steel

Neal in AZ

oh what pretty photos.

brass snow flakes and jacketed bullets with lube grooves.

 

 

do you anneal the jackets before you swage them?

 

miranda

 

[itlogo]

3 hours ago, jhgtyre said:

Did you cut, or change, the spring or ball detent under the shell plate?

No, I even replaced that spring during the re-assembly just to be sure.  BTW the misalignment in the picture is exaggerated to show the effect (I was purposely holding the shell plate for the pic).  When I index the plate without touching it, the detent correctly locates it into position.  It was just my early reaching and placement of the bullet that caused the misalignment.

Edited April 13, 2018 by itlogo

[Intel6]

10 hours ago, Miranda said:

oh what pretty photos.

brass snow flakes and jacketed bullets with lube grooves.

 

 

do you anneal the jackets before you swage them?

 

miranda

 

 

Yep, I typically hit them with a weed burner till they are dull red and then let them cool. Depending on the cast bullet I use as the core I will sometimes seat the core in the case them hit them with the torch so I don't see the lube grooves in the bullet after swaging.