X-Treme Bullets and Major PF

[01G8R]

First let me say I've read the good, bad and ugly about X-Treme Bullets. I also understand X-Treme retail prices are more than MG, but the X-Treme volume discount makes them significantly more affordable than MG.

I'm looking for some first hand info if anyone has loaded their 9mm bullets to major PF. Specifically the 115gr and 124gr bullets. According to X-Treme their pistol bullets can go 1500 fps without any problem. They also told me their plated rifle bullets are plated to the same thickness as the pistol bullets and those can go upwards of 2700 fps without problems. I ordered some samples so I will have some results in a couple of days if no one has tried them. Thanks for the help.

[steel1212]

I tried them at major, they came apart. I tried them at minor, they came apart. I had exactly zero crimp, they came apart or tumbled. I wouldn't wast the reloading components on them if somebody gave them to me to practice with.

[01G8R]

Can you tell me when you got the components that you had trouble with?

[01G8R]

I got my samples yesterday. Loaded 115gr Round Nose with 4.2gr of Titegroup 1.130 OAL. This is my normal minor load with MG bullets. No key holing, slightly faster than MG bullets out of a Glock 17L. 1175fps Avg with SD of 7. Didn't get any tumbling that I could tell. Nice clean holes at 20yards. Accuracy was less than I'm used to with MG, but these are the first plated bullets I've loaded and I may need to play with the crimp some.

Loaded 115gr Round Nose with 8.3gr Silhouette at 1.165 OAL. My normal major load is 8.5gr, but I wanted to start a little lower to see if I had any problems. SVI 4.25" barrel with 3 holes and a 4 port comp. 1367fps Avg with SD of 22. I need to figure out why the SD is higher than I expected. Same comments on accuracy as above. I didn't find any traces of lead in the barrel or comp and I didn't have any key holing at 20 yards. I'll crank it up to 8.5gr and report back.

I have some 124gr bullets too. I will be loading those and see how they do. I've never shot 124s through my open gun, but with all the people running them I figured I would try them.

Anyone have a good way to recover bullets to inspect then after they have been fired? I was thinking some water jugs, but figured someone might have a better idea.

[freakshow10mm]

Sand works too.

I use Xtreme plated in my commercial ammo and it does well. I push the 124gr 9mm to 1100fps.

[Joe4d]

If you have read the bad and ugly you should have all the first hand knowledge you need. Even your results should give you a hint. These bullets are just bad all day, all day yesterday and all day tomorrow. You cant wish a bad product into performing better.

[G-ManBart]

Loaded 115gr Round Nose with 8.3gr Silhouette at 1.165 OAL. My normal major load is 8.5gr, but I wanted to start a little lower to see if I had any problems. SVI 4.25" barrel with 3 holes and a 4 port comp. 1367fps Avg with SD of 22. I need to figure out why the SD is higher than I expected. Same comments on accuracy as above. I didn't find any traces of lead in the barrel or comp and I didn't have any key holing at 20 yards. I'll crank it up to 8.5gr and report back.

Do you really expect to pick up 100+fps by increasing the charge .2gr? 1467fps would be 168PF (which isn't much margin for error)...hard to imagine that little change making that much increase in velocity.

What sort of velocity were you getting with 8.5gr and a jacketed bullet? I would expect plated to be faster than jacketed, which makes it even more odd. R,

[01G8R]

Thanks for the input everyone. I worked on some more loads with these bullets, but I just can't get the accuracy that I'm used to with jacketed bullets. I tried more and less crimp than before and I'm not satisfied. A slightly tighter crimp did tighten up the groups. 3 to 4 inch groups at 20 yards off hand. I ran my MG load side by side this morning and was 1.75" at the same distance. I did get the 115gr bullets up to 1420 fps without them coming apart. I shot them at 45 yards and didn't see any signs of them tumbling or coming apart, but the accuracy was poor at this distance. 7.7 gr of Silhouette under the 124gr bullets was getting me ~1320 fps. I only ran about 10 over the chrono because I was more interested in checking the accuracy with different crimps.

G-Man

I get 1420 to 1440 fps running jacketed bullets with 8.5gr of Silhouette. I should have clarified that in my earlier post. I loaded a bunch at 8.5gr when I had a stock STI Trubor, but have since switched to a shorter SVI with barrel holes and a different comp. I haven't worked up a new load to get back to ~172pf for the new gun. I was not expecting to get 100fps increase with .2gr more powder. I was worried about the plated bullets coming apart and wanted to start a little slower.

Long story short is that they didn't come apart at 1420 fps (highest fps I saw with 8.5gr), but I don't think I will switch from MG because of the accuracy issue. I'll work up the load for my new gun with MG bullets and stick with that. It's not worth it for me to put the time into these for my open gun. I'll load them up and shoot them out of my Glock in practice.

[Nealio]

I have not shot Xtremes in a 9mm specifically, so I can only comment on the bullets I've shot (10mm).

In my 10mm I've ran them in excess of 1400 fps (155 gr). I've ran their 180gr too (1250+ fps). I've never had any issues and they are excellent shooting bullets. My dad has run them in his .357 mag and chronod them at 1600fps. I've only shot a few thousand of them, but I haven't had a single one that was bad.

I've shot my 10mm at 75+ yards before and hit a 20x30" target every time. I've also done penetration test and the 180gr Xtremes went through 6 sheets of 3/4" mdf with minimal deformation (I still have a handful that look like they could be loaded again from that test). So I don't know how people are getting plated bullets to blow up and keyhole. But I've heard the same story about most every brand of plated bullets, yet I have first and 2nd hand experience with Rainer, Berry's, Xtremes being pushed hard and shooting extremely well while other say they can't get one to leave the barrel without blowing up or keyholing.

Maybe its gun specific, or powder specific?

I use PowerPistol and BlueDot in my Witness Match 10mm.

Edited June 11, 2010 by Nealio

[01G8R]

Nealio

I read your previous post on the subject and that was one of the reasons I decided to try them out. I didn't experience any key holing and my gun didn't blow up with the 115gr bullets going over 1400fps. They seem to be staying together just fine. My main problem was the accuracy. I had no problems hitting a 18"x24" steel with the gun out to 45 yards, but the groups I shot just don't measure up to my jacketed groups. I believe there is a certain crimp that will work properly in each individual gun. I'm not going to spend the time working on that for my Open gun. My Open gun has an AET barrel and that may be part of the accuracy issue with the plated bullets.

[MoonJeong]

I tried them at major, they came apart. I tried them at minor, they came apart. I had exactly zero crimp, they came apart or tumbled. I wouldn't wast the reloading components on them if somebody gave them to me to practice with.

How do you know they come apart? I tested 300 rounds of 115 gr at 1500 and no keyholes... About 2" accurate at 25 yards out of my czechmate... Thanks

[jriera]

I have used several thousand of the 124 gr in my 38 Super Comp at speeds above 1400 fps with no issues ...

[varminter22]

Joe4d says, "These bullets are just bad..."

Obviously, not everyone agrees with that statement. I sure don't agree.

I've been shooting Xtreme bullets (formerly known as West Coast Bullets) for well over a decade with good results. Mostly .45ACP 230 gr, and more recently .38 Short Colt 147 gr.

Obviously not at 'magnum' velocity, but Major PF (.45ACP) and Minor PF (.38 Short Colt).

I'll agree they're not exactly Bullseye match quality, but they've worked well for me (and many others) for steel plate, bowling pin, USPSA and ICORE matches.

That said, I also use Montana Gold (.45 230 gr and .357 142 gr) and am happy with them.

I live only about an hour from Xtreme, but its difficult for me to go there during their open hours. I long for the days back when Angela (before they sold to the current bigger outfit) would bring bullets to shooters when she would be shooting at a weekend match!

[idcastandblast]

I have never tried the 9mm at major, but have heard that the plating is thicker on the HPs. If anyone wants to try some of the Xtremes, shoot me an IM. I carry HPs and the standard versions. I can sell them in smaller lots if you don't want to jump in for a 500 round box.

[wooddog]

I have shot well over 30K of West Coast/X-treem, never a problem and they have always been great to deal with.

[RammerJammer]

Is this an issue of powder? barrel length? Im confused. I have also shot over 5k of the 180s at major PF without an issue.

[kneelingatlas]

I shoot 9 Major exclusively with Xtreme bullets and am very happy with them. The fastest I've shot one was a 100gr at 1650fps (a load I was told by many here would pattern like a shotgun) and they grouped perfectly.

Granted my Open gun is a CZ, not a 2011, so my results may be irrelevant to you

I buy through a group buy which moved 350K bullets last year and everyone seems to keep coming back for more.

[bowenbuilt]

I have only good things to say about RMR/X-Treme projectiles. Never had an issue and they shoot great in all of my guns. If you want them fast order from RMR, if can wait a week or so order from X-Treme if you live on the East Coast. The accuracy difference between them and jacketed once you find the sweet spot is negligible. If you over crimp them then you will be posting the same stuff you will read in the first part of this thread from back in 2010.

Edited March 29, 2014 by bowenbuilt

[fxdc]

Hey varminter 22 ... I stand with what you say but guess I got ya beat ... Back in my time down there ... In the day it was Western Nevada Bullet co. And Jim would bring bullets to the match .... He also sponsored my old shooting team HIGH PLAINS DRIFTERS,

I still shoot the product Major/Minor never had a problem... The house family is top shelf in my eyes.

A12243

Former member silver sage pistol league and sierra nevada pistol league now (wnpl).

Western States Championship ROCKED IT!!!!

[ak_tech]

I have shot almost 50k X-Treme in 9mm minor and 40 major. Never had any issues and way cheaper than what I was shooting before.

[Justsomeguy]

I am still experimenting with some Extreme/RMR bullets I bought last year at the close of the good weather "season" as it were. I did manage to get out a shoot some 147grn Round Nose out of a Witness converted to 9X23 which grouped very well indeed at about 1200fps. I have some 124grn Flat Points I am about to load up in 9X23 and expect to shoot them at around 1400fps or so over 8grns of Silhouette, so I'll report back when I get them chrono-ed and tested for accuracy, but I expect they will do just fine. I have shot some of their 165grn HPs out of several of my XD types at velocities that averaged up to 1182fps out of my 5.25 XDm over some 3n38 and they shot well and accurately with no key holing issues or anything coming apart.

I am thinking that if the barrels are rifled for 1/10 vs 1/16 as some barrels are, that the centrifugal forces would be greater and any damage to the bullets in the reloading operation would be more troublesome, but that's only a theory of mine and would require more testing than I have the capability to preform.

[Garrett]

I never paid attention to the bullet diameter (.355" vs. .356") before this. But I recently found it can make a noticeable difference, and that different guns will react differently to each. This was all with 9mm, and I haven't tried the XTreme at major PF in the .38 Super yet. But this seems relevant. I posted this a couple months ago at http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_42/419321_The_difference__001_can_make____or_fun_with_plated_bullets_.html

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I bought a few thousand XTreme 115 gr. 9mm plated bullets a few months back, as they had them on sale and not all weights / styles were available at most retailers. I typically load 147s to use with suppressors, and I like 124s for non-suppressed purposes. In fact, I don't think I've loaded 115s for several years now.

The initial results were pretty unimpressive, accuracy-wise. I've been loading plated bullets since the late 90s without any issues. I've primarily used Berry's along with some Rainier. I have loaded XTreme bullets before with decent results, but those were 147 grain bullets. I realize you can easily over-crimp plated bullets, and it can cause issues. So I did an experiment. I've tried measuring at the case mouth to get an idea of how much crimp is applied, but between case thickness variations, and difficulty getting the very outside edge of the case, this can sometimes give unreliable results. So this time around, I crimped and pulled the bullets. That way, I could measure the actual crimp on the bullet its self.

One set of bullets was crimped at .352" and the other at .354". I also loaded some Rainier 147 gr. bullets the same way, to see if there was any effect there. See below.

Unfortunately, I seemed to get poor results with either crimp set. The useful information I got was that I was not really getting any velocity increase by going to a heavier crimp, so there is no reason to crimp in that manner.

I was questioning my loading practices, but I tried some jacketed bullets that I'd loaded previously and they produced a group half the size of the XTreme bullet loads. So were the bullets no good? I've shot their other bullets with good results.

So I bought some Berry's 115 gr. bullets to test them against. One thing I noticed when measuring the two was that the Berry's bullet is .356" diameter, and the XTreme bullet is .355". Looking at their online listings, I see the XTreme 9mm bullets up through 135 gr. are .355", but the 147s are .356".

So I load up a bunch of each, using Win 231, Win small pistol primers, and mixed range brass. I ended up bringing three guns and four barrels to the range today. I brought a Glock 17 with a factory barrel and a Lone Wolf barrel, a Glock 23 with a Lone Wolf 40-to-9mm conversion barrel, and an HK P9S. Of those, two barrels have cut rifling, and two have polygonal rifling.

I shot 10-round groups from each, offhand at 10 yards. All shots went through the chronograph. Both loads through all barrels averaged between 1225 and 1250 fps. And without fail, the Berry's loads produced much tighter groups through the Glock barrels. In all instances, the [span style=font-weight: bold][span style=color: red]XTreme bullets are on the left, and Berry's are on the right.[/span][/span] See below.

Glock 17 with factory barrel:

Glock 17 with Lone Wolf barrel:

Glock 23 with Lone Wolf conversion barrel:

One would start to think the bullets may be suspect. As it turns out, both the Glock factory barrel and the Lone Wolf barrels seem to prefer a .356" bullet. But find a gun that likes .355" bullets, and it's a different story. By far the best group of the day was from the XTreme bullets through the HK P9S.

P9S

So, if you end up with a 9mm that won't group, try going up or down by .001". It may make all the difference in the world. I'm going to have to try this out with a few other guns, and see which gun prefers what size of bullet.