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9mm Lee FCD - Glock Bulge


Woody Allen

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After reading all the posts in this thread, there seems to be some positive information lurking among the posts depending on your goals.

I went home and did some testing with the FCD. I have been reloading with this configuration for three or more years and I load 9MM, 9MM Major, 38SC, and 40 with the same configuration.

Dillon 650 w/case feeder, #1 LEE U Die, #2 Powder Die, #3 Empty, #4 Redding Comp Seat-r, #5 FCD

(1) A loaded round in 9MM, 9Major, or 38SC slides like butter into the FCD (Infact with some slop)

(2) A loaded 40 round would not slide into the FCD. The loaded round did not want to go past the beginning of the case.

So what did my tests show. With a Lee U Die in station #1, The FCD does not have any sizing affect on 9MM, 9Major, or 38SC or have any effect on the 650 running smooth or requiring more or less effort to be expended.

I am loading 200gn Zero in 40 and I'm not sure if the size of the bullet expanded the case enough to cause the case to drag in the FCD thus contibuting to a lot more effort to load 40. I some other bullets, so I will test further.

Fact: 99.9% of my reloads pass a Wilson case gauge. So I am happy with MY reloading objectives. Happiness is relative, can I be happier is another question?

Fact: The Lee U Die in station #1 will cause my 650 to stop an empty case from feeding once in awhile. I have to reach under the tool head and tap the case to align with the die. The Lee U Die also (even with One Shot applied) requires more effort to run the press.

Fact: I will never make GM in the Dillon Speed Reloading Division, nor do I want to biggrin.gif , BUT

The question/s I have- Can I acheive 99.9% of my reloads passing the case gauge, shells aligning with station #1 and use less effort thus smoothing out my 650 by (1) Replacing the Lee U die? (2) Moving the Lee U Die to another station, (3) or some other solution that does not cost major $$$.

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The question/s I have- Can I acheive 99.9% of my reloads passing the case gauge, shells aligning with station #1 and use less effort thus smoothing out my 650 by (1) Replacing the Lee U die? (2) Moving the Lee U Die to another station, (3) or some other solution that does not cost major $$$.

Replace the U-die with a Lee Die and try that, set it up as I described before. It will lessen effort at the handle. None of my 9mm or 10mm fail the case gauge for sizing issues. They may fail for other issues but nothing I can blame on sizing. You may still get a case every now and then that hits the die rather then goes into the die. That can happen.

Edited by 98sr20ve
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, The FCD does not have any sizing affect on 9MM, 9Major, or 38SC or have any effect on the 650 running smooth or requiring more or less effort to be expended.

Here is a picture of where my 9mm 147gr, Lyman bullets stop when inserted into a FCD. They have to be loaded @ 1.080 to avoid hitting the rifling, pretty common OAL for a lead bullet.

DSC_3317.jpg

Here is a picture of my MG 124gr bullet loaded at 1.130. It goes all the way past the bullet with out touching the sizer.

DSC_3318.jpg

Both pass a Dillon Case Gauge easily. So your statement is right for you and your loads but not something that is accuarate for every bullet combo in 9mm.

Edited by 98sr20ve
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Both pass a Dillon Case Gauge easily. So your statement is right for you and your loads but not something that is accuarate for every bullet combo in 9mm.

I would have to agree with your statement. My 40 test started me leaning that way, however; I did use different bullets in 9 tests. One was a molly coated and the other was MG.

I'm still thinking "If you use a Lee U die first, the FCD is not resizing the case". I've had just about all the different brands of case gauges and Dillon will allow rounds to pass that failed in other gauges. Not knocking Dillon-just passing along information.

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Replace the U-die with a Lee Die and try that, set it up as I described before. It will lessen effort at the handle. None of my 9mm or 10mm fail the case gauge for sizing issues. They may fail for other issues but nothing I can blame on sizing. You may still get a case every now and then that hits the die rather then goes into the die. That can happen.

I have a standard Lee in 9. I will give it a try and see what happens. Thanks.

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Both pass a Dillon Case Gauge easily. So your statement is right for you and your loads but not something that is accuarate for every bullet combo in 9mm.

I would have to agree with your statement. My 40 test started me leaning that way, however; I did use different bullets in 9 tests. One was a molly coated and the other was MG.

I'm still thinking "If you use a Lee U die first, the FCD is not resizing the case". I've had just about all the different brands of case gauges and Dillon will allow rounds to pass that failed in other gauges. Not knocking Dillon-just passing along information.

I have heard that before about the Dillon. It seems to work for me even when I use a KKM barrel so far. I like the Dillon because it never going to rust. Don't know if you could recommend a tighter gauge made from a non-rusting material. Not even sure if I want to add to my reject pile either as so far everything that fits that gauge has worked in my gun.

For the record. I have measured the 10mm bullets as getting sized by "my" .40/10mm FCD. It is sized just at .003" under sammi spec and it sizes a bare case right to sammi spec. So it seems to be properly made. NONE of my 10mm ammo will drop into a FCD with out hitting the carbide ring. 10mm has thicker cases then .40 so I think that makes matters a little worse with the 10mm. In my experiance of measuring these things the ring needs to be "about" .002 smaller then the bullet to size a regular bullet and only "about" .001 smaller then the lead bullet to size a lead bullet. I avoid the FCD in any straight wall case that come close to hitting those standards. Ussually that leave 9mm in the "OK" range as long as you are not seating big bullets deep in the case causing the bullet to bulge out the case at the base. It's a lead bullet issue being oversized compared to FMJ and need to be seated deeper because of short throats in the lead freindly barrels. When I loaded 147gr Precision Moly bullets they loaded to 1.130 just fine in my Glock and LW barrel. They were sized to small and leaded horrible in both barrels.

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So basically what some of you are trying to say, is that if I set up my 650 with a Lee 9mm sizer die in station 1, powder die in station 2, seating die in station 3, dillon crimp die in station 4, and a Lee factory crimp die in station 5, I should have no issues with glocked brass. Therefore eliminating the need for a EGW U die and enabling the press to operate more fluid. Correct?

I apologize for my lack of technical gobily-gook.

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So basically what some of you are trying to say, is that if I set up my 650 with a Lee 9mm sizer die in station 1, powder die in station 2, seating die in station 3, dillon crimp die in station 4, and a Lee factory crimp die in station 5, I should have no issues with glocked brass. Therefore eliminating the need for a EGW U die and enabling the press to operate more fluid. Correct?

I apologize for my lack of technical gobily-gook.

You won't need the FCD. It's a far less effective sizing die then a Lee sizing die. It's about .006 bigger. Whats the point?

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So basically what some of you are trying to say, is that if I set up my 650 with a Lee 9mm sizer die in station 1, powder die in station 2, seating die in station 3, dillon crimp die in station 4, and a Lee factory crimp die in station 5, I should have no issues with glocked brass. Therefore eliminating the need for a EGW U die and enabling the press to operate more fluid. Correct?

I apologize for my lack of technical gobily-gook.

You won't need the FCD. It's a far less effective sizing die then a Lee sizing die. It's about .006 bigger. Whats the point?

That is why I started this thread. The Lee Die, the EGW Lee Die, the Hornady Die all make the press run harder, more effort, less smooth than using the Dillon die. Big time noticable. Really notice.

I have all of the above and have used all of the above for thousands and thousands of rounds. Posters on this thread don't even have the Dillon die. I have not read a single post from someone who has and has used all of the dies. Believe. All the dies are a pain in the @@@@ to use when comparing the ease of using the Dillon die in the first station. But, and a big but, it doesn't cure the issue with 9mm FMJ range glock bulge issues. Keep in mind the FCD and lead bullets issue. I know, I used them. Whole other issue. Nothing I wrote in this thread as indicated in the first post applies to using lead or coated lead bullets.

9mm. FMJ. Range brass. Aftermarket tighter chamber than the Glock.

98sr20ve is on the mark. Using the Lee, EGW Lee or the Hornady, they all size more than the FCD. No need for it.

98sr20ve is on the mark. The Lee sizes more than the FCD. But I found the less sizing of the FCD is all you need. Why size more than you need.

The Lee die, the EGW die, the Hornady die work great. No need whatsover for the FCD as these dies size further than the FCD. Note, the Hornady is a really good die (the new one) really well made (they used to make all of the dies for Dillon). Spend the money and chuck the Lee die-3x the price of the Lee die, but what you get it and use it, you will find it is worth the money. I have both, and have used both.

However, if you value smooth operation of the press, the Dillon is KING. Made for progressive presses.

Dillon in the first stage, and the FCD in the last, One-Shot lube-runs like buttttter. Soft butter. EGW Lee U-Die runs like frozen butttter. Lee/Hornady die runs like cold butter. Dillon with the FCD runs like butter sitting out for hours, solid but soft. No one on the face of the planet would run the Lee/EGW/Hornady die in the first station who, after running the Dillon in the first stage, wouldn't utter sh@@@, what a pain in the @@@.

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After reading this thread, and having problems with my loads, I just changed some things and it works better for me.

I was using a lee u die and a factory crimp die. The factory crimp die caused a wearing on the case where the bullet is seated. The berrys plated bullets keyholed in my M&P. I switched to my dillon crimp and sizing die (all dillon dies), and they case gauge just like with the lee u die and the plated bullets now no longer keyhole in the M&P (after shooting 20 test rounds from close to long distances).

I have loaded 400 rounds with the dillon dies and they all case gauge with the EGW case gauge. They also shoot the plated bullets without keyholeing. I will still use the lee u die and probably the FCD with the 40sw.

Randy

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The FCD is made for oversize lead bullets. Lee sells lead bullet casting equipment. Customers complained about their newly made bullets not chambering in their autos. The Carbide ring is there to make sure that all lead bullets chamber in auto chambers. It is as simple as that. As long as you use the minimum amount of crimp that you need to remove the bell of the case and chamber and feed properly you will not have any reduction in accuracy with lead or jacketed bullets. Plated bullets are a crapshoot and I would not use the FCD with the plated bullets either.

The FCD does not "resize" the brass in so much that it is squeezing down the outer diameter of the case after the oversized lead bullet pushed it out of spec.

For glocked brass all you need is a standard Lee .40/10mm sizing die and a little dillon lube makes life better. If you are loading cast bullets or coated bullets I would recommend the FCD to make sure they all chamber.

That is from almost 20years of experience using the aforementioned equipment in match chambered guns, including .40 match chambers and barrels.

Good luck,

DougC

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We are using Lee FCD on Dillon 1050 Super, 9mm Luger range pick up brass and plastic coated bullets. No need for chamber check at all, all bullets pass chamber without any issues. I like Lee FCD how it works.

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The FCD is made for oversize lead bullets. Lee sells lead bullet casting equipment. Customers complained about their newly made bullets not chambering in their autos. The Carbide ring is there to make sure that all lead bullets chamber in auto chambers. It is as simple as that. As long as you use the minimum amount of crimp that you need to remove the bell of the case and chamber and feed properly you will not have any reduction in accuracy with lead or jacketed bullets. Plated bullets are a crapshoot and I would not use the FCD with the plated bullets either.

The FCD does not "resize" the brass in so much that it is squeezing down the outer diameter of the case after the oversized lead bullet pushed it out of spec.

For glocked brass all you need is a standard Lee .40/10mm sizing die and a little dillon lube makes life better. If you are loading cast bullets or coated bullets I would recommend the FCD to make sure they all chamber.

That is from almost 20years of experience using the aforementioned equipment in match chambered guns, including .40 match chambers and barrels.

Good luck,

DougC

Tell that to this bullet in my 9mm cases. It would size it down a lot and ruin it's accuracy and cause major leading. FCD should almost never be used with lead. Sizing the lead bullets down is a bad idea. My bullet case combo pass the case gauge. But if I size them .001 smaller they will lead horribly. You work hard to keep your lead bullets at the right size. FCD will randomly size some and not others causing major issues for most people.

DSC_3317.jpg

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Everyone knows I don't care for the FCD. It's only because I used it for years and then started actually paying attention to what it does. Once you start measuring what it does and how its made you really start wondering why anyone would want to use it. It's nothing but a fancy sizing die that post sizes your rounds if they need it or not. Sometimes this will size your bullets, sometimes it won't. I don't understand why anyone would want to do that (execept in 9mm when the majority of the time it's not a issue. So yeah, I have pretty strong opinions about the "hype" that seems to sorround it.

I butchered my 9mm FCD trying to make it work as a crimp only die in .380. It didn't work. No big loss.

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Everyone knows I don't care for the FCD. It's only because I used it for years and then started actually paying attention to what it does. Once you start measuring what it does and how its made you really start wondering why anyone would want to use it. It's nothing but a fancy sizing die that post sizes your rounds if they need it or not. Sometimes this will size your bullets, sometimes it won't. I don't understand why anyone would want to do that (execept in 9mm when the majority of the time it's not a issue. So yeah, I have pretty strong opinions about the "hype" that seems to sorround it.

I butchered my 9mm FCD trying to make it work as a crimp only die in .380. It didn't work. No big loss.

I never had any luck using the FCD with lead, cast or coated. Bullets going sideways, leading-I couldn't make it work right-probably my fault.

The FCD did "too much" to the round. I did check. When I load lead I use a different first die.

If you use 9 mm FCD (not with lead), and you "start measuring" you will find you can adjust the die so it does absolutely nothing to the round except kiss the case just enough (see prior posts).

This thread was started about loading FMJ 9mm bullets. Specifically FMJ. Specifically 9mm. I agree with you, and my experience mirrors yours with lead bullets.

You then post pictures regarding problems with lead bullets and other calibers.

Again this thread was started about 9mm. About FMJ (not lead). Again, aftermarket barrels. Again, range brass shot through a Glock barrel.

An emotional bias is a distortion in cognition and decision making due to emotional factors.

You attempt to refute my findings in my first post with accounts of using the FCD with lead bullets and other calibers. Hey, a FCD thread, let's jump on it with completely unrelated assertions and vent.

You have an ISSUE that cannot be resolved in a rational discourse. But I understand. I know where you are coming from. We accept you regardless.

I suggest a FCD twelve-step program. Those who loaded with a FCD and find their bullets are going into the targets sideways are forever emotionally scarred. I know, I have been there. The FCD was in the junk bin for years. I disdained and hated the die for what it did to me. However, I did recover. There is hope. We understand. We are here for you, but no group hugs.

Edited by Woody Allen
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Suprizingly enough, on a public forum, other people might respond to your thread, then even more people might talk about things related but not directly on point with what the original poster had in mind. Amazingly enough, this is all OK in the end.

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FWIW.

I am a BIG fan of the Lee FCD. :bow:

My first use has been on my .357mag cartridges. They get a tight roll crimp to improve consistency. Before the Lee FCD, I was getting a slight bulge below the crimp causing the cartridge to not want to chamber in my lever action rifle. The Lee FCD has totally solved the problem. If there is no bulge, it does nothing. If there is a bulge, it irons it out as the sizing ring slides up and comes up off the case.

Since they don't make a Redding grx die or a Lee Bulge Buster kit for the 9mm, I just ordered another Lee FCD in 9mm. I intend to try it in an attempt to address the bulge near the base of the case on some of the range pick up brass that ends up mixed in with my brass. The bulge that I am speaking of is the one caused by the cartridge being fired in an unsupported chamber or an oversize chamber.

I have had good success with the standard Lee sizing die in .40s&w in dealing with the guppy belly in some of the brass. My Dillon die just has a bit too much taper in the mouth of the carbide to get the last bit of bulge in the .40 cases. Same with the Dillon dies in 9mm. Not having the large mouth on the dies has slowed down my production rate somewhat. That's why I am going to try the Lee FCD die in 9mm, along with the Dillon Sizing die in station #1. If it works, I will try it on the .40.

The other great success I have had with the Lee FCD is in loading .308 ammo on my Dillon 550 for use in my son's FAL semi-automatic rifle. The rifle crimp die is totally different than the pistol die. The rifle die has a collet that squeezes the crimp into the case with little or no down pressure on the shoulder of the case. After going to the Lee FCD in the .308, every case passes the chamber check. No more problems.... :cheers:

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  • 1 month later...

Im a newer reloader. Loaded maybe 2k rounds so far, about 1250 of those were .40, and rest were 9mm.

Im using a lee turret press, and Lee carbide dies with a lee FCD as the 4th station.

first station is sizer and deprimer, second is neck flare and powder, 3rd is bullet seating, 4th is FCD set to make a very very light crimp and catch any oversize brass.

This is done with all Berry's plated bullets, and range brass.

I have never had a single issue....

The ONLY thing i notice is on some brass there is a small lip at the bottom of the brass webbing where it was sized down, this is only in 9mm. I have pulled bullets, and they read the same on the calipers after the process as they do going in, so i know they are not being resized. the .40 shoots great in my Sigs and the 9mm shoots great in my 5" M&P.

using 180 gr RNFP and HP berry's in .40, and using 147gr RN berry's in 9mm.

am i missing something here? I see the FCD as an insurance step to know that my ammo will chamber reliably after the timer goes beep, and it also removes the bell in the case created by the powder drop.

I loaded 50 rounds earlier today and paid very close attention to the OAL at the bullet seating stage and checked again after the FCD stage, No change. Perfect 1.130 everytime in the .40 i loaded.

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a little thread drift..

Fact: The Lee U Die in station #1 will cause my 650 to stop an empty case from feeding once in awhile. I have to reach under the tool head and tap the case to align with the die. The Lee U Die also (even with One Shot applied) requires more effort to run the press.Fact: I will never make GM in the Dillon Speed Reloading Division, nor do I want to biggrin.gif

empty case not feeding on station 1 (XL650)

I was thinking on using 'One Shot' for smoother operation on first station but i guess it doesn't work.

Now, to add to this thread. i use

1. EGW U-die

2. Powder

3. empty

4. Redding Competition Die

5. Lee FCD

this all goes back to the manual and initial set-up, all dies EXCEPT the FCD requires the bottom of die to almost touch the shell plate (almost for Redding die). for FCD, you have to actually remove the cap or loosen the cap, engage the case, adjust the cap until it touches the bullet, then disengage case, adjust the cap. so when reloading, it only touches the crimp not the whole case.

i am under the impression that Stage 1 with EGW die does most work. it has the most effort during a downstroke. to OP, glock bulge i think is more a problem with 40s, as with the 9s. I THINK.

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  • 4 months later...

OK, I have read the entire thread and have learned and laughed, now I have a question.

I bought into Hornady and use all their stuff, press, dies, one shot etc. After reading all this now I know why my first stage, deprime/size requires so much effort. I then run the expander die, the powder drop, powder cop, and the Hornady taper crimp die.

If I set everything up 95%+ of my cases gauge, but like others I want more. I shoot an M&P or Sig in 9mm and just starting with the 40SW. I pick up range brass and buy 'once fired' brass. Some cases run 'harder' through the press than others, the press runs like warm butter except station 1. I have loaded 5K of 9mm and have had 5 cases that bulged right under the base of the bullet, they were all F C head stamp and that was the only common factor I could find. It does take some adjusting to get the Hornady taper crimp to seat the bullet and crimp and still gauge, this is where I find I have to do most of my adjustments to get cases to gauge.

So, can I change out my Taper crimp and put the evil FCD in its place? I found the answer, NO, there is no bullet seating capability with the FCD.

From what I understand the FCD, among other things, will size the completed cartridge right down to the shell plate AND set a crimp just like my Hornady die......Right?

If so, it makes sense for me to run the FCD and provided everything is set up right, I can virtually ensure that all my cases will gauge. - After reading the Lee page, the FCD sizes on the way UP the case, so it will ensure gauge fit, but I can see how it could impact OAL, as it sizes as the die moves from the bottom to the top of the case, if there is a bulge, I could see how this would increase OAL.

Not sure I want to give up my powder cop (although I have gotten better at watching the powder since I bought the case feeder, it gives me more time to watch the other steps), but if I did use the FCD I do believe 99.9% of the cases will gauge. Now just to determine what is more important.

BTW, there is decent info on the FCD at the lee site,

Carbide Factory Crimp explanation

While the bullet seating die that comes with the die set will apply a crimp to the case, there are some great advantages to using the Factory crimp die. One is that cases are post-sized by the carbide sizing ring in the base of the die. This is like the sizing ring in a resizing die, except that it is ground to maximum allowable outside diameter for the case involved. So if there is a buckle in the case from excessive crimp or a bulge from a slightly oversize bullet, the complete cartridge is resized as it is withdrawn from the die; You can be certain that it will chamber, because it has been resized after the bullet was seated and crimped. There is no provision for seating the bullet with the Factory Crimp Die.

The type of crimp on the die depends upon the type of cartridge. With cases that headspace on the case mouth such as the 45ACP, the die essentially reduces the outer diameter of the case mouth into the bullet. On other cases, a roll crimp is applied.

The degree of crimp is adjusted by how far down the knob on the top of the die is turned in. The proper setting for this die is with the adjustment knob turned all the way up, turn the die into the press until it touches the shell plate or shell holder which should be in the raised position. Then, raise an empty case into the die and begin to turn the knob inward until you feel it stop on the top of the case. Another 1/2 turn will apply a good crimp and you can adjust from there to suit your specific need.

Thanks

Mike

Edited by Mike in CT
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  • 2 weeks later...

I am offended by the unfair characterization of the "bulge" as belonging to Glock when Sig, Beretta, and S&W bulges the case by the same amount or more. Glock, in fact, has the tightest chamber of the group judging by total case expansion. Please stop singling out a particular race of handguns. It is wrong.

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I am offended by the unfair characterization of the "bulge" as belonging to Glock when Sig, Beretta, and S&W bulges the case by the same amount or more. Glock, in fact, has the tightest chamber of the group judging by total case expansion. Please stop singling out a particular race of handguns. It is wrong.

Well it's not just that.... It's the grip angle too. ;)

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I am offended by the unfair characterization of the "bulge" as belonging to Glock when Sig, Beretta, and S&W bulges the case by the same amount or more. Glock, in fact, has the tightest chamber of the group judging by total case expansion. Please stop singling out a particular race of handguns. It is wrong.

<_< They started it.There is more of them out there than others so they cause more of it. They still do it. Just saying. :roflol:

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