grayguns

Straight from me: Do not use any other trigger with our P320 Competition Trigger Kit components. Reducing pretravel via an adjustment on the trigger defeats the sear safety cam, messes with trigger mass balance & tolerance for impact, and degrades striker lock integrity. I invented the sear safety cam feature around 2015 to enhance drop safety in our original P320 Competition kits. We made our system available to my friends in NH for incorporation into the Voluntary Upgrade. Our modern P320 AST & AHT triggers effectively and safely reduce some gross pretravel and slop via optimal fit and finish, while supporting the Voluntary Upgrade fire control system to which I contributed. Our complete P320 Competition Trigger Kits provide the best possible pull characteristics to be obtained, consistent with the margin of tolerance for impact and rough handling we demand for your safety. And anyhoo, there is literally nothing to be gained by sacrificing mechanical safety for that tiny reduction in travel which, unlike the purely mechanical qualities of overtravel, pull weight, and break texture, is best accommodated through proper technique and training. If you don't believe me, ask Mason Lane, Isaac Lockwood, Yong Lee or James Delambert. Thanks for reading and Merry Christmas!

We currently have these in stock, in great quantities. Thank you. -Bruce

EXACTLY !!! Shipping costs both ways to send my gun to Bruce Gray for a Trigger Job ??? Just make the parts and sell the Kits, I'll install it myself. 175 bucks for sights ?? I don't need Bruce to sight in my gun. Sell his sights like Sevigny does with the fiber optic front and i'll get a sight pusher and do it myself.. These guys are so backed up with work because they want it that way.. Quit the BS and sell your stuff to the DIY.. Geez, it's not like i'm rebuilding a automatic transmission... Hi! You make a good point. We will eventually offer our sights as a DIY set, as with the upcoming P320 action upgrade kits we're working on with SIG Sauer. For now, however, we are installing these ourselves to ensure that; a) you don't break the front sight off with your pusher, and the pistol actually gets zeroed for you. The P320's are accurate as hell, but they tend to group different loads to different POI's, along with significant POI/POA variations gun-to-gun. Just among the 28 Team SIG pistols we built and delivered recently, we've had six different front and rear height combinations, with some machine-fitting to boot. (Our new P320 rear sight is designed to be machined to zero, and we refinish each set to order after fitting.) We are working with our counterparts at SIG Sauer to figure this out, and expect the next model to be less variable in this regard. I don't understand your comment about being backed up with work because we "want it that way." What we want is for our customers and friends to get perfect work and parts that we guarantee for life, as I always have. I humbly suggest that may explain why GGI is where we are today. We can fairly be criticized for longish lead times, but as I yet live and breathe not for the quality of our work. -Bruce

I recommend a 124gr true, drawn-jacketed bullet with enough TiteGroup to make a reliable 131PF for competition in the P320F9. I feel the 147's are needlessly pushy, and the long locked barrel-slide travel of this design allows a lighter bullet to shine. My opinion, and others feel differently. I believe at least 2/3 of my Team SIG shooters are running 147's to excellent effect. FYI, I'm taking the P320 to Bianchi, and will be running the SIG Elite Performance 124 V-Crown over TiteGroup at 126PF. That load is capable of groups well inside 2" at fifty from the Team SIG gun I am running, though I can no longer see well enough to get that on demand. The smallest group I have documented publicly with this load ran 2.15" for ten shots, off bags. -Bruce

If it isn't, you'll be refunded. We guarantee everything we do for life. I am confident. I apologize for the costs involved, and encourage folks to use a local dealer for USPS shipping instead of going direct with UPS. Thank you! -Bruce

They look similar. You can use Wolff or ISMI springs. Good point: After much experimentation and high speed video, we've settled on a 14X ISMI for 147's at <132PF, and the 15X for lighter bullets under 135PF. The ultimate limiting factor remains having adequate closing tension to overcome the striker spring into full battery. Our work does not involve reduced-rate striker springs. If we weenied-out on ignition reliability, we'd gain a little extra closing assurance, but a 15X does a fine job of reducing excess muzzle dip on closing. I hope this advice helps. -Bruce

If one isn't careful it's possible to damage tritium vials when using a punch. I was just reminded of this first hand while adjusting the front sight on my P320 last week. I have an MGW for the classic series (Sig) guns and as others noted, it's a much more seamless means of doing the job. t You can also snap off or bend front sights with a pusher. Dawson sights in particular simply cannot successfully be installed with out fitting, and a sight pusher wil bend the blade on any sight tight enough to fit durably. At GGI, we fit and install a wide range of sights that we guarantee, and never use sight pushers anymore. Indeed, I now see these tools as an expedient alternative to the application of proper skill. Instead, we use specially made dovetail punches, and do a very careful job of it. -Bruce

No. Different manufacturers. Thanks for the opportunity for clarification. Ours are a bit more expensive. They are turned from 17-4, heat-treated to 45-47RC, and stress relieved. They are guaranteed for life as is everything we do and sell. In 13 years that we've been making FAT rods for SIG pistols, we've never had a failure AFAIK. Scott's a great guy and I am happy to share the idea with him. You'll see some collaborations between our shops in the future. Check out his grip tape sets and basepads. -Bruce

Hi! Bruce Gray here. I'd like to make the point that the P320 will not fire unless safely in battery; the lockup travel is very long on this platform, and is safely tolerant of being slightly retracted, as might be the case if one was depending upon the recoil spring guide assembly to prevent it from opening fully. -Bruce

This is an interesting topic for me, largely because of the degree of relatively uninformed speculation alloyed with false assumptions that the "Why don't we see more SIG's in Production?" question always prompts. That's not meant as a slam. I don't blame anyone for voicing those assumptions and speculative theories, since in fact there aren't that many people with informed opinions on the successful use of P-Series SIG pistols in competition to draw more realistic conclusions from. With full disclosure of my long association with SIG Sauer, and as president of Grayguns Inc., I'd like to offer some of my admittedly biased experience and opinions. First, while nobody would consider me to have been any sort of really great Production shooter, I did manage to win and place in a surprising number of the larger matches I shot when I was SIGARMS' factory shooter boy from late 2002 through mid-2005 when I was forced by health issues to retire from competition. I think that included a few wins in some Area and section-level matches, and high finishes in much else I shot. As I have always pretty much sucked at speed shooting compared to my peers and betters, I could be coy and tell you I was just really lucky that better shooters weren't there when I won. However, the fact is that this wasn't always the case, and through hard work and some fortuitous late-career personal understandings, I learned to drive the DA/SA SIG as well or better than the 1911-based pistols that came before. That facility persisted even as I walked away from competition in 2005 with a final last, very sad look over my shoulder. When I went back to the Bianchi Cup in 2011 and 2012 with a DA/SA X5 AllRound, I shot Production scores that rivaled or beat the best I put up in my youth with 1911 or HK, and set a couple new records for Enoch and Rob to break. That concludes my ego's happy excursion into old, forgotten triumphs. Let it simply be said that I took a lot of negative comments about "high bore axis" and "the lousy SIG trigger" from a lot of shooters I beat, but only a few such comments from the real greats that bested me, and who generally knew better. Fact is, if a higher bore axis alone is an impassible barrier to competitiveness, then 1911's and many other platforms also are impossible to win with. And, at the risk of shameless self-promotion I'll put a properly built SIG competition action against ANYTHING else. Period. Let it be said that in the hundreds of thousands of rounds we've fired from P-Series pistols by now (in addition to the training and competition I've done with them, we are the world's largest shop for SIG custom and R&D work by far, and test everything we touch thoroughly), I have yet to suffer a major failure with one. We go a year or two between even seeing any sort of malfunctions at all, much less any sort of small parts breakages. My personal P226 that I shot on behalf of SIGARMS with, s/n 489XXX, has in excess of 65,000 rounds on it and still runs perfectly. I broke exactly one hammer reset spring so far. A typical P226 can be counted upon to group well inside 2" / 25 yards with decent ammo. Many do better. I shot a 1.3" 50 yard group using Laser-Cast bullets with a Bianchi X5 I set up for Mickey Fowler a few years ago. I fear no target presentation with such pistols. But, don't take my word for it. Anyone who really, seriously wants to give a P226 a fair trial, let me know? I'll loan you one of my old match guns, a good holster, and some mags. I'll impart unto you what little I may think I know about running the trigger. You may still prefer your current choice, and that's fine. But maybe not? Thanks for reading! -Bruce

I appreciate Alma's comment! At this time I can only say that SIG Sauer is putting forth a substantial initiative to develop and promote the P320 Modular Handgun System platform for competition. Our company is heavily involved in this initiative, and other specialists in our industry are lending us support and input. We are already seeing an intense amount of interest in this pistol from Production shooters. The full scope of what we're doing will be made public as we go along next year. I am also to understand that the incomparable Max Michel is indeed planning to run some Production next season with two pistols set up for him by Robert Burke. I literally cannot wait to see him shred with the new SIG striker gun. I predict it will be nothing short of epic. If the world of practical shooting to which I have devoted my professional life still holds an earthly purpose for me to fulfill, such that my physical being should be recalled to my bench from the shadowy clutches of Death, working with the P320 is it. We know the P320 intimately and have been working with it intently to divine it's last secrets and tease out of it every last bit of it's immense potential. As it stands, it represents a degree of innovation that sets it apart from everything else, and is a superb, bravely conceived duty weapon. (I plan to switch to a stock P320C9 for duty / carry myself.) I truly believe the P320 is going places. In a big way. And we are deeply humbled to be invited along for the ride. There will be room on the bus for everybody. (I apologize to the Moderators if my comments appear unduly commercial. It's a decade past time I bought a page here; send me the bill!) -Bruce

Love the process. Gain visceral enjoyment from seeing the sights and feeling the trigger through each shot. Then the match will greet you like a warm friend. -Bruce

CJ56, thank you for your comments and observations, and my deep thanks for the kind comments y'all have posted here over the years that this has been up. I haven't had the pleasure of visiting here for a while, and am in a mood to reflect if nobody minds? I first started scribbling this article around 1998 and got this far by 2004 or so when I retired from competition as my health betrayed me. ( I've since spent the last decade building our businesses, teaching, and dealing with a succession of heart attacks.) I wrote this for the purpose of mapping out, in my inadequate words, some visible signposts pointing to concepts I have learned from my betters, any understanding of which defy being expressed directly in words at all. Yet I wanted to try, for I didn't want to forget again. When I started shooting 42 years ago, I was fortunate to be allowed to hang out with some savvy old bullseye and PPC masters who understood something of the process-orientated approach. I learned to hit stuff. Then, around 1977 I went nuts for combat shooting and started building pistols as a career choice, Again, I was blessed by great associations and friendships with many of the top shooters of the day that have lasted throughout my long career. They each had their own understanding of what it took for them to do well, and we would hash over these ideas endlessly, each speaking a language that wasn't quite the others. Yet, all I could see were their scores, their times, the guns, the gear, the stuff. The old knowledge of sights and trigger was discounted, fundamentals sacrificed on the false altars of speed and effort. On those occasions when I scored well, I was quick to credit my "trying hard despite myself", as if winning a match was a moral right accorded to he who best transcended his self-inflicted handicap. With a weak and hungry ego consuming my toxic emotions for the bitter satisfaction found in the immediacy of results attached to a faint glimmer of hope, I struggled to see competition (or much of anything) for what it was. I chased what it looked like. And to the ego, the hidden riddle of practical pistol competition doesn't look anything like the answer we find hidden in plain view, but fail to recognize. More than 25 years ago now, I went through a series of events that changed me. I was struggling with myself and the other guy was winning the fight. Brian once told me to find an anchor, words that resonated. Thankfully, I finally did. I am moored to the island of my faith, upon which the very many I now love and the very little I now require are found. To that end, I do not see any contradiction between an embrace of Zen principles, and one's faith in God's love. Indeed, the practice of mindfulness has brought me closer to our Lord Jesus Christ, who's Word rides the calm inner sea to my heart. I'm so glad to have found this thread after so long. By the grace of God, the support of my beloved wife Rodent, lots of friends, and some really great doctors, I am now completely healthy. For the first time in 40 years, I'm free of the debilitating symptoms of heart disease. I'm getting strong. It's a true miracle. I shouldn't be here with you. And so what the heck? I'm going to shoot again. The guy that wrote this is really not me today. That's so much the better, as I get to rediscover that cool understanding of what it looks and feels like to be behind the gun, the personal understanding that these words can only infer, and not portray. This is going to be immense fun! I can't wait, so I'm not. -Bruce

Joe, the long-awaited X5/220 extractor fix is finally available, although I am not. I'll be out until around February, recovering from my recent heart attack and upcoming bypass surgery, but you can contact Rick at the GGI Secret Volcano Base for details. I'm sorry this fix took so long to develop and perfect; it's about the most challenging problem we've ever had to tackle, and I have a lot of sympathy for the SIG Sauer people who also struggled with this issue. Thanks for asking! -Bruce

Since last year, I've given it a rest. I'm spooling up for the 2013 Cup now in earnest and am still at a bit of a loss on this sight business. Given my history in the match, I truly believe I can keep my nervous system in tune if I can see some alignment under the lighting conditions Bruce described. So I'm experimenting...-Bruce