TobyJ

Angus posted on fb that they have sold 1400...shouldn't be long now!

Just posted my first thoughts in this thread...so far, the A01 is amazing!

I finally got my A01 on Thursday, and fired about 100 rounds on Friday. So far, I think it is superior to my shadow 2 in just about every way... My shadow 2 is a CZC custom, which means it has a trigger job w/ the short reset. I also have the heavy brass SSI scales grips, which makes this gun a closer comparison to the A01 than a stock S2, but the differences are still apparent. First, the grip...the A01 just fits me better. I can't say what aspects (width, shape, etc.) make it better, it just is. My S2 feels very natural in my hand, the A01 even more some. Kind of like my S2 vs. my SP01 shadow...just 'better'. While all three of my shadows have CZC triggers, the A01 feels the best, even though according to the test sheets, they are all basically the same (7 1/2 da, 3lb. SA with the short reset). It's something about the motion of the A01 that just feels more precise. A quick example is doing something like a dry fire wall drill...holding the front sight steady on the S2 takes quite a bit more effort than the A01. I suppose this could also be an artifact of the grip or the weight...it's just better Which brings us to the weight...it's heavy, and it feels even heavier than it is. My s2 with the brass grips feels very balanced, while the A01 carries it's weight in the nose. I thought this might be an issue when firing, as in the sights would dip excessively on recoil, but that isn't the case. The sights come right back on target, as they do with my S2...perhaps even a bit faster. With my 135gr 132ish PF reloads, recoil is basically not an issue with either gun, but it does seem to be less of an issue with the A01, which makes sense, given the weight and where it is. One of the next things I intend to do is back to back bill drills, to see if avg. time or group is better with either gun, over a number of runs. Accuracy at 12 and 25 yards is about the same, and is most likely limited by my abilities. 5 shots at 12 yards go less than 2 inches, and 5 shots stay in the USPSA headbox at 25 yards, fired free style (no rest), not rapid, but not slow either. The 5 shots from the A01 were slightly lower than the 5 from the S2 at 25, and were all charlies (3 from the S2 were alphas). One thing I think contributed to this is the fact that compared to the fiber in my S2 front sight, the fiber in the A01 is HUGE, and appeared to cover the majority of the head. It could also be luck, or any number of other variables. So to the OP's question...which would I buy... Well, I shoot USPSA production, and the A01 is not legal there yet, so I'd still choose the S2. If the A01 were production legal (which is will be, at some point) or if I didn't care about shooting production,,and I could only have one, I would pick the A01 without question. I bought my S2 from CZC, and in addition to the trigger work, it is coated in custom tungsten polycoat, which adds to the price but not the performance. Combining this increased cost with the good deal I got from my gun guy on the A01, makes the money gap not so big between the two. I've seen S2's sell in the 900's, and you could get the trigger stuff done for a couple hundred more, making the gap larger...but I'd still pick the A01. I've only shot about 100 rounds through it, vs. probably 10-12k from my S2, so there is still a lot to learn, and the S2 is still one heck of a gun...but at this point, I haven't found one thing that the S2 does 'better' than the A01. It's also sort of cool to have a gun that started out as big blocks of steel, just a few miles from where I live, by some really good folks. TobyJ

I ordered mine on Feb 3...I will finally have it on Thursday. So while I haven't shot one yet, I have handled one at czc...feels great in the hand. TobyJ

When I loaded 147 blue rn for my glock 34, I used 3.3g of tg at 1.13 to get 134ish of. My shadow 2 needed an oal of around 1.09 with the same bullet, and I was able to cut back to 3.0gr of tg to get similar pf. Toby J

I load a lot of 9mm, and I use range pickup brass exclusively, that likely includes a lot of glock brass and some 9mm major. I use regular lee dies in my 650 (no u die) and case gauge every round in a shock bottle hundo. I get the occasional round that wont plunk all the way into the gauge, but it's nowhere near 5%. The biggest factor I've found to affect rounds dropping in is the powder drop stage. Putting just a little to much flare on the brass drives the reject rate way up. As for the occasional 'reject' they go in a box marked 'practice' and I have yet to have one not run in the gun. Just not worth it to me to have questionable rounds in the main mix. Toby J

The target 2 is really just an sp01 shadow with adjustable sights and some cz customs bits and work. I see no reason it wouldnt be uspsa production legal, even though it is not spelled out by name. The shadow target is there, by name, but it had a non standard rear sightsight, which required slide milling. Really, I dont know how anyone would be able to tell a shadow target 2 from a cz customs worked shadow with an adjustable sight. I was at cz customs yesterday, and held both an sp01 shadow and a bull shadow...they feel almost exactly alike in the hand, as they should...both have the same grip configuration and roughly the same weight and weight distribution. While there, is also confirmed that all target 2's have the same trigger parts, including the short reset. I'm not familiar with the bull shadow optic, but I'd imagine it comes with the czc plate system. I dont see why it wouldn't. You could always call and ask...they are a great bunch of folks. TobyJ

Depends, but probably not... If you are looking to go SSP, you'll need to start hammer down, which I suppose is easier with a decocker...I have 2 CZ 75 variants, none with decockers, and I've started hammer down lots of times, without issue. If you are going ESP, you'll want to start 'cocked and locked' so you'll need a safety... And from what I've heard from those who would know, you can get a better trigger with the safety model...I'd vote no on the decocker... TobyJ

I'm pretty sure the Shadow orange is a Czub factory 'performance' pistol, vs. a CZC custom product https://www.czub.cz/en/produkty/pistole/competition/cz-75-sp-01-shadow-890.html So comparing that to a CZC custom pistol may or may not be apples to apples. You can have CZC build you an SP01, for a bit less money, but it will lack the 'special fitted barrel and slide', as it will be built on a 'regular' SP01, which would also be legal in SSP or ESP. It will still be an outstanding firearm...I have one of their custom Shadow 2's (short reset trigger, trigger job, ext. firing pin, etc.) and I absolutely love it. I was just in there today talking about just such a build...I want an IDPA gun, as close in weight and handling to my Shadow 2 that I shoot in USPSA. TobyJ

I'm borrowing a 9mm springfield RO for an upcoming match (considering buying it, or one like it). My other 9mm is a shadow 2, and my load for it is 147 rn blue bullet, loaded very short (1.09) due to short chamber. Anyway, I did a lot of reading, and found lots of posts about ftf's and fte's in 9mm 1911s, and the common solution seemed to be 'load longer'. So, I loaded up some 1.145s and hit the range with some new wilson etm 10rd mags. As expected, it ate the 1.145s up without issue. Just to check, I then loaded up some 1.09s, and it ate them as well. Went on to run 2 matches with the 1.09s, without a single hiccup. It would be nice to only have to load one 9mm round for both guns. I've also read that after oal, mags seem to be the next place folks go to fix issues. This gun / mag / ammo combo runs good...is it safe to think that there's a good chance another RO would run with this mag / ammo combo? How far would I be stretching this theory if I expanded to another ramped 9, like a Kimber khx? I realize there are a lot if variables, but I'd appreciate input from folks with more 9mm 1911 experience than me...which is pretty much anyone... Toby J

I do check the classifieds there and over here, and I was going to put up a WTB thread, when I came across the idea of building my own from a pre b. Hence the original purpose of this thread, to hear pros and cons of each plan. So far, I haven't heard any good reason to not go the build route...I found an importer who deals in transitionals, and adding in the cost of things like hammer, extended firing pin, sights and such, I believe I can build a very solid gun, which in some ways will be better than a stock shadow, for less than the cost of a new stock shadow., and probably on par with a used one...and, I like projects. Now if a used shadow pops up at a good price, I might rethink this, or I might do both Toby

Thanks, Bob, but the Shadow slide was never part of my plan...the thread got a bit sideways, and that was someone else's build. My plan is to just put some upgraded guts into a transitional, and I was asking about that plan as opposed to buying a used shadow, which I have not been able to find too many of around here. So my build should fit into SSP or ESP. Toby

This really will be my last post on this, and that's only because you asked here and via pm... I'm no expert on this...I am a USPSA RO, but I've never been an MD or a RM, so I've never had to decide something like this. And as you say, there is no way to easily tell, and I agree with that. But let's say it came up, like at chrono, and I asked you what gun you are shooting, so I can see if it makes weight... If you said 'shadow', that would probably be the end of it. But for the sake of this post, lets say that you volunteered the fact that it is an SP-01 with a shadow slide. Because I know a little about CZ's, I'd probably then ask about the firing pin block, at which point, if you were being honest, you'd tell me that the shadow slide doesn't have a provision for it, so you changed the sear to a shadow sear, getting rid of the lifter. At that point, I'd call the MD over for guidance, as I believe this is direct violation of the rule which says that you cannot disable a safety. This situation probably has an infinitesimally small chance of ever coming up, but I do believe you are in violation of the rules. You keep saying nothing is disabled, but when you bought the gun, it had a firing pin block, and now, because you changed parts around, it doesn't. Sounds like the textbook definition of 'disabled' to me. It had it, you took an action, now it doesn't. I'm not reading anything between the lines, and I'm not really concerned...actually, I don't care at all. This started as a simple 'hey watch out here' and then I did get sucked into the debate, but I still have no skin in it. I don't know that I'm right, nor do I need to be. In this case, I agree that you basically just built a shadow, and therefore have zero competitive advantage over any other shadow, nor is your gun any less safe, so it should not be an issue. But is that true for every possible combination of bits, for every manufacturer? Is there some other situation where I could swap bits around, disable a safety, and either get some competitive advantage or create an unsafe gun? I don't know, neither do you, and neither do the RO"s...the rules are there for a reason, and one of those is to set clear boundaries for both the competitors and the RO's. Personally, I think this is a good thing, as we don't want RO's making any more judgment calls than they already have to. TobyJ

Ok...last post from me...this has gotten way off the original topic, which was mine I don't think you can use one rule (the ability to use other OFM parts) to allow you to violate another (the clear prohibition on disabling a safety), but that's just me. Probably would never come up, but if I were shooting in a major match, it wouldn't be worth it to me to try. You also are not shooting a shadow...it may be splitting hairs, but your gun did not leave the factory that way. Could you say you are? Absolutely. Would it work? probably. Would I do it at a major match...nope. You've obviously got a gun you like, and that's cool. You also believe you are in compliance with the rules, also cool. The only way to really settle this would be to either have it come up at a match, or email Troy McManus (DNROI) and get a written opinion. The former is not likely to happen, and the latter is probably opening a can of worms. That's my 2 cents, and it's probably not worth that...I've got no skin in this, so let's agree to disagree. I really appreciate that you kept this civil, though Good shooting Toby

But in this case, a fully functional SP-01 was purchased, and then the lifter removed, the slide discarded, and a shadow slide added. I'd say that some stuff was disabled. The fact that a firearm with those same features disabled could be purchased, is irrelevant by the language of the rule. Now if a blank sp-01 frame were purchased, and then was built up to be a shadow, that is a different story...but then that would seem to go against the 'gun must be on the production list' portion of the rules, as blank frames are not on the list. I get the argument, I'd tend to agree with the logic, and it will likely never come up...but I don't see where it is supported in the rules. TobyJ