Steve D.

Have been roasting .223 brass on an open fire tonight, ha- ha Used 750 Tempilaq inside several necks and run each for 3.5 - 4 seconds at the neck to shoulder angle right where a propane torch has its blue "pencil tip" in the flame. Tempilaque Melts in neck at 3.5 a 4 sec.s. Spin the shells with a little battery screwdriver (nice & light) inside a deep socket. Getting that cool color-shift 1/4" or less down from neck, etc... QUESTION: After annealing I ultra sonic cleaned and dried all casings and noticed some have a little "Copper'ish" tint around the neck where other are just grayish-brass color. Is this Light-Copper'ish look indicative of pushing the temperature Too High on these pieces? They all seem to have a pretty uniform Color-Shift at about the same area down from the shoulder. HOW To tell physically if some are Toasted a little too much?? Eager to hear & Thanks

I love IMR 8208-XBR. This stuff is awesome under 69 bthp' s in an 18", 1 in 8 AR. In my experience it meters (Horn. LNL-AP) Far Better than AR-COMP. After everything's is settled-down 8208-XBR will stay right-at or + / - 0.1 gr. of target weight. Nothing like the Royal PITA of Varget! AR-COMP is better that Varget but only by a bit. I don't enjoy making ammo in Progressive-Mode with Either One Of Them... H-Benchmark is another really good one. It's performance under 52 / 53 g. bullets is Fantastic! It also meters Great. Both Benchmark and 8208-XBR are Extruded Powders, but their kernels are very small diameter and cut very short. Benchmark has the smaller kernels of the two but they both are Aces!

I'm with Ben B... I am a hound at making sure that little white o-ring pops-up on every pull. It is a real stress-reliever for me and I would not want to see it off the press.

I agree in never going Shorter without serious consideration for the Safety of the load. I had to do this with my H-XTP's in both 185 gr. and 200 gr. for my H&K USP-45. Had to shorten them a good bit (I think 15-20 Thous. but can't remeber without my notes) to stay off the rifling for the "plunk-twist" from what was published in Hornady's manual. I now keep powder in the lower 1/3 of the range and the stuff shoots very accurately and comfortably. It was nice to realize why my previous set of .45 loads was so harsh & nasty... They were all calipered to the Hrndy. COAL Book Spec's, but hard-up against the rifling! Woops... Moral of Story is Always do the Plunk-Twist when setting-up the seating die for a new load, regardless of what the Manual says.. My question was Lengthening the 9mm Rounds to the .010 set-back from the rifling. The book value puts the length a fair bit shorter than I think it can be loaded to. If I'm at 1.060 and some guys here are at 1.115 or more that is like 50 +Thous'. That is quite a bit, no? On the bigger question though, I think Hi-Power Jack probably has me covered on this so thanks again as always. Steve

Hello All, Is cartidge OAL always going to be MOST accurate at .010 / .015 off the rifling for a Specific Camber in a progressive-press in production mode? I know people can tweak to .005 if they are checking each round but that's a bit much. I ask because the OAL spec in my Hornady manual for a 124 HAP is 1.050 and an XTP is 1.060 but I'm sure my chamber will accomodate longer while still passing the "drop & twist" test. I see a lot of 1.115's etc. in posts here. Gun is a Walther PPS (Great little gun and eats everything without protest, by the way). For a 2.4" barrel it is quite accurate to boot. (An iteresting feature of this chamger is that it has a small Step of slightly smaller chamber-diameter just back from the "headspace-step" (or Stop) that keeps preasure in the barrel a little bit longer as the cartridge begins to disengage from full-battery. Brass stays Very Clean and you can clearly see the little "choke-ring" that comes a couple millimeters back from the mouth on the ejected casings...neat idea.) Thanks for Any Input you would like to share.

Hi Mbauer67, It is interesting to hear you are getting bench-rest accuracy with TAC. I never really gave that powder the respect that it probably deserves. Does TAC have the same tiny "ball bearings" kernels of their X-Terminator? My aim in this One-Load only quest it to get the best metering, yet most Temp. Stable, bech-rest accuracy combo I can put together and STOP @&$?ing around with loading experimentation every time I sit down at the bench. I am pretty sure the next pound will be 8208-XBR as I really like what I am reading from others so far. Somebody posted a picture for me on another site showing Varget, RL-15 and XBR kernels on a sheet of paper next to each other which was a big help in comparing things. XBR looks like Benchmark's Tiny Cylinders which has worked really well for me in 53 g. VMAX's and it METERED within 0.1 all the time in my LNL-AP. I am also goings to have to put 200 Nosler CC 69's down the pipe because I bought them already and used 50 to load AR- COMP experiment. Haven't shot them yet but I already know I won't be replacing the pound of AR-C.... 0.1 - 0.3 gr. in Charge Consitentcy at Best...NOT interested... It's better than Varget but the size of the "extruded cylinders" are still not ideal for progressive metering. I probably don't shoot the distances that you do so I am hoping the 69's should keep me good from 100 - 300 yds at least. Rarely will I ever have a chance to shoot longer than that without a serious road-trip. I'm counting on the 69's to group at least as well and buck the wind better than the 53 VMAX (which do shoot to about 1/2 min. at 100 in my gun). We are both shooting throu good barrels (WOA and Shillen) so we should be able to get similar results. Is your twist 1-8 as well? What length? Thanks again for input and see you back here sometime probably soon. SD

Hi Mbauer67, I tried to stick the link below but it may require a cut-paste. This is in the White Oak Precision part of their site and refferences 69 g. BTHP's specifically. These are the bullets that I want to move to for Everything. I'm tired of 52-53's for this 60's for that etc. I just want to cook-up the most accurate "bug-hole eating" 69g. Nos. load I possibly can for 100-350 yds, and would Really like it to not be sensitive to Temp. These S. FL Summers are crazy Humid and Hot! http://www.whiteoakprecision.com/info-reloading.htm Any thoughts on my "quest"? Thanks, Steve Moderator: I hope I didn't scew-up by pasting a link to that other site's info. If so I apologize.

Hello Gent's, Any input or real-world experience of how AR-Comp should / does compare to RL-15 when running 69 g. Nosler CC's in a 1-8 twist, 18" barrel? Not interested in Varget as I may as well put pop-corn kernels in the PTX measure. Sometimes so bad it "cones" the sized neck with up-stroke force to shear the powder grannules. Just too much of a hassle. Also curious of kernel make-up for progressive loading powder measure of the two powders? I can get Benchmark to stay spot-on or 1/10th up-down, but not even close with that stinking Varget! WOA lists RL15 as the best 69 g. bullet accuracy-powder in very strong words. I think that was written before AR Comp came to market. If AR-C is as consistent at launching the bullets AND has great Temp. characteristics I will probably go that way. I just need some security on the "Bug-Hole" making capabilitiy of this powder. I want to start loading & shooting just 1 load but I want it to be as good as Possibel for small-group, bench shooting at from 100 - 400 Yds. I can't plink at my range and all I do is shoot for groups... I know, get a bolt-gun..., but I LIKE shooting my hi-precision AR! Standing By & Thanks for all input.

Hi yoshida, I did not try that as I just ejected them from the AR after a 10-count and tossed in a bag with my empty brass. I think if I hit them again the firing pin might have driven through the cup as all the 1st hits were really deep. It almost looked like the primer-cup was displaced to the edge of the primer pocket from the center-punch effect. It was a realization of how hard these things get hit and the fact that much of that "dent" is popped-back out by the gas pressure and contact with the bolt-face before ejection. Fired rounds look just fine in terms of pressure signs and primer condition. I will report back here after I take these suckers apart. Unfortunately, I lightly crimp all my .223 ammo so I will be POUNDING with that stupid hammer-puller tonight...

Shot 50 rnds of .223 Reloads with Federal 205MAR (small rifle match-AR) primers that have worked fine last couple hundred rnds. This group had 8 mis-fires in the box of 50 I put together! Holy-Crap... The pin was hitting them very well and left a deep dent. They were loaded with H-Benchmark. I do not believe that any primer ignition took place because it was just a "click" and nothing else. All contents and bullet of cartridge remained un-disturbed and ejected without any problem. I always check for proper primer seating-depth below case-head so I dont think they were "high" primers. Do you think Federal would be interested to have these 8 cases with the struck-primers in-place (after bullets and powder knocked-out) for research or diagnostic purposes? Does not leave me with a real fuzzy feeling about these caps. Any history on flaky performance from these primers. The have a little "AR" imprineted into the cup metal that can still be faintly seen after firing. Open to all comments.

Hello STEVE RA, I have experience too with those little 53 VMAX slugs shooting Very Well in my barrel. The thing that I liked about the 69 Nosler C-C idea is that you can buy them at about $150.00 per thousand in bulk which is less than the VMAX's and they would also (?) be expected to perform better out to 400 on the days I can shoot long. I have not shot any heavier bullets yet but I would need to be Sure in my mind that the 69 nos. would perform AT LEAST As Well in the more common 100 yd. shooting and excell at longer distances. Then I could stop screwing around with all this bullet-weight & load-cooking experimentation and just turn-out quantities of Match Quality Ammo to shoot with. I can't do any "blasting" of steel targets, etc at range as it is only a paper bulls and best-behavior kind of club. (Wish we had some wide-open desets & mountains here in FL) As I've said before, I'm just a small-group hound when I shoot so that's what I'm after. You sound like you have a lot of target-time with these gas-guns so I'm running this "standardized-bullet" idea by you for input.

Rainier Arms 18" Ultra-Match SPR (Rifle-Gas) Barrel is shooting 7-8 shot groups as big as the end (tip) of my index finger at 100 yds. It absolutely Loves the 53 VMAX with 24.3 g. of H Bechmark @ about 2920 fps. It is an expensive pipe (Shillen ratchet rifled & lapped), but it Does Shoot! NOTE: I wish I could say "10 shot groups"..but as usual, I'm always jerking one or another off the ragged-hole that is forming down range... Dooe!!!

Relize I am becoming a "mad scientist" at my reloading bench, cooking this and that, when I could probably just refine the best possible 69 Nosler Custom-Comp bullets with favorite powder load (not Varget) and turn them out on the machine carefully in quantities and just SHOOT! I have to believe that the best load with Benchmark, RL15, XBR-8208 or something will be able to make bug-holes at 100 yds and be very good target ammo out to 400 yds as well. I wonder if even TAC is a contender for best-accuracy in these type loads? This would be through a rifle-length,1x8,18" hand-lapped barrel. The ability to buy those 69 Custom Comps in 1000 qty. is very attractive. Anyone have a "best powder" experience with these pills through a 1x8 AR of 18-20 inches? Loaded VARGET this past weekend under 60 g. VMAX's and was like having un-popped pop-corn in the measure. Too much crunching and jerky-ness to count on drops tighter than 0.3 grains in either direction. Some are dead-on for a few, then drift this way and back, etc. That's no way to make precision ammo... I'm trying to get away from the idividually weighed and funnel-dropped charges... Thanks as always. Will Have some new Chrono numbers for Exterminator and H-55 VMAX Ladder when I get a chance to shoot again. Also put together a VARGET "ladder" with 60 Gr. VMAX on LNL Press. I will need to see Chrono results on this one before I give it any faith in accuracy. Worked from 23 gr. to 25 gr. in 0.5 incriments, but don't like the repeatability (or lack there-of) of this powder from charge to charge through a progressive measure. I must have dropped over 100 test charges getting the various charge points established in making these stupid 50 rnds. of ammo! (10 rnds at each of 5 weights)

Is there a common occurence of a "Low Velocity" AND then a "Hi Velocity" Accuracy Sweet-Spot for the Same Bullet & Same Powder but with different charge weights in .223? Maybe noticing something funny. Same bullet with same powder but an accuracy peak in a Slow-Speed "mode and in a Hi-Speed "mode"? Just Curious. SD

WE HAVE A WINNER!! STEVE RA, where would you like me to forward the "big-dollar purse" to? At least in my 1-8 twist 18" rifle, the 24.3 grain load was noticably better than any others. See pictures below for best group on a target at 100 yds. showing the two best 5-shot groups bottom and two at 24.0 grains-even above it. The target for two groups of 24.6 grains show exactly the same opening up again from 24.3 so I have to believe it's validity as the most accurate load in this gun, bullet, powder combo. The two lighter loads BELOW and heavier ABOVE the 3 Charges mentioned here (Total of 7 loads in Ladder) also show the same progression away from the 24.3 best in each direction. OAL on the ammo was set at 2.240 and was within 1-3 thousandths either-way for all the rounds. The "sweet spot" in Velocity (accordiing to ProCrono Digital)seems to be in the lower third of 2900+ fps. The shot string is shown below. I am sure some of the shot spread is me but even with that in the mix I am pretty happy with the two groups of 24.3 for my first ever .223 reloads. The gun was rested on a wood / towel block in the front with stock and grip off the bench in the "left hand holding the heel under your arm" position (whatever the hell you call it ha, ha). Next ladder will be with X-Terminator and same bullet and then VARGET and same bullet. After those we move to 60 g. VMAX's 24.3 g. Bechmark / 53 V-MAX String: 2956 2911 2911 2886 2930 2956 2929 2923 2911 2923 QUESTION for STEVE RA: Why the 3 "!" and a Smiley Face? This load has obviously worked for you too in the past, yes? Stay Tuned, SD