PC Geek Shooter

I have a new M&P9 FS 4.25" and I got ISMI #: 11, 13 and 15 recoil springs from SSS. I have a Dillon 650 (well uncle and I together) and have been making notes with Titegroup and seeing how low I can go. With the very low ones I am shooting one at a time and making sure I see a hole, just in case of a squib. At this time I don't feel comfortable going below 2.1 GN of TiteGroup, even though I feel safer using that RCBS Lock-Out Die, this is the lowest I see myself going with TG. I also purchased a Wolff spring (MidwayUSA 153024) for my uncle's S&W 6904 (3.25" or so), but got him the 10# one for the same type model (5904) but it was a little longer (I'll have to cut off a few of the wires). I probably should of gotten a 13# or 14# one to cut to make it more like a true 9# or 10#, since this 10# might turn out to be a 6.5 to 7# when I'm done putting it in his. With this Wolff 10# 4.0" one I got down to 2.1 GN with TiteGroup, I could only go down to 2.7-2.8 GN with the ISMI 11# one for the best reliability, ie. no FTE. So I called up ISMI today and spoke to the owner (nice guy) and asked some questions on their springs. I've been reading here that some people say that the ISMI ones are usually 1.5 to sometimes 2.0 lbs less than similar Wolff ones. Turns out that his springs are a little bit different and he tries to keep it locked up a little longer than say a Wolff spring (which didn't know about before). Which, is really good for the M&P9 FS and 5" models for sure. I know I heard something about P1 and ..... but he explained it good and I got the gist of it. I didn't want to buy Wolff #; 9, 10 springs (made for another model, not the M&P) that were 4.25" and would basically be exactly like the ISMI 11# ones, so I could save time and money not screwing around, well at least keep it to a minimum. So I got around to my main question after I learned that his springs keep the gun in lockup longer, then I knew I wanted to try some of his springs from __another model__ that could work in my M&P9 FS. It turns out that he recommended the G19 15# and I told him I might as well try the 13# as well. He said he was going to be shipping to SSS on Tues so I msg'd SSS and they called back and said they would hopefully get a msg to ISMI in time for them to put in a G19 #: 13 and 15 spring. Granted in my msg I also gave them my invoice number from a few weeks ago so that obviously helped in them knowing that I was serious, since SSS does not have these springs on their website. So I'm hoping this will be the ticket for me. The net effect hopefully will allow me to shoot TiteGroup from 2.1 to 2.3 GN and I'd be very happy. Why??? Because I can. My neck and upper body hurt constantly, so since I have a reloading machine, I might as well use it to do things that will make shooting more fun (less painful). I was just going to get a Wolff 4.5" to 5" model (probably 9mm) and cut the wires, I assumed I'd have to get a higher lb spring, but also didn't want to have to buy 5-10 springs to make it work (still may have to buy a couple others, but I'm on the right path). Also a bonus that the ISMI ones fit the stock guide rod, even though I bought the SSS steel one so I could easily switch out. I might just buy a few factory ones once I figure out 2-3 of my favorite loads, screw the aftermarket springs into the stock guide rod. That way I'll have a mouse fart load, maybe a bunny fart one and then one that I could use the ISMI M&P FS 13# spring while doing minor PF with IDPA and/or USPSA. I've also got the Wolff reduced striker spring and that worked on all the 2.1 GN to 2.8 GN ones I shot last time with Federal primers so I'm happy with that. I also lightly polished the trigger bar. Put in the Apex Competition big sear plunger to take down the weight just a little bit. I then really filed down and polished up the factory sear and firing pin block (Apex calls USB) to what the pdf by Dan Burwell on M&P trigger jobs said. So my sear and firing pin block look very, very similar to the Apex parts, it's a vast improvement. Now I can't wait for that Apex AEK polymer trigger to come out, I have a hard time justifying $75 just for an aluminum trigger. Of course on my previous M&P9L I had the FSS & Trigger, which was beyond great, but this time I wanted to save some money and do some of it myself.

I just bought the Speed Shooter Specialties (SSS) steel guide rod (Non-Captured) ($19 ) and ISMI 3 pack: 11, 13 and 15 lb springs. Actually just received it today on Thurs., ordered it on Tues, 2 days from GA to MN is nice and fast for $6.65 . My MidwayUSA order on Tues still isn't here and I paid $8.90 for SH, the size and weight are almost exactly the same (couple oz. off only), but it should be here on Friday. The 11 and 13 are easy to put on, for me the 15 was very hard. However I could of just bought 3 factory M&P guide rods for $6.36 and then got the ISMI ones and taken out the factory springs and then take off the nut and put it back on to make it permanent. However, I don't have a vise so know idea how I could of done it here, I would of had to go to my uncle's. Also with the ISMI ones since they use the factory standard size, later on if I wanted to I could get the SSS Tungsten guide rod also (don't think I ever will, but wanted the option). Now the Wolff guide rod and springs are NOT the same size as the factory ones or the ISMI ones for the M&P. So you wouldn't be able to do the above. I've heard that Glock springs work in the M&P, even aftermarket guide rods, I assume it's all the 3rd Gen ones though. There might be some other Wolff ones that would fit the factory M&P guide rod, but no clue, I really would like to know though. I think I should of probably just gotten two 11 lb. ones and then one 13 lb one, take the second 11 lb and cut a wire off or two max if it came to that for my reloads. Or from above post maybe a 8,9 lb spring would work in the stock M&P guide rod that's made for another model, that would be the best way to go. I'm talking of doing well under 125 PF though for my normal practice shooting, only reason I'd like it lower than 11 lb, of course I may not need to go lower. The 15 lb. ISMI is too similar to the stock one, of course after shooting my reloads I maybe totally wrong on that. The ISMI seems more stiff than the stock 16 lb. one (M&P9 not even a month old yet and it's been shot 15 rounds to test it out at an IDPA match that I was there to watch for the 1st time). Of course the stock 16 lb one has been in a captured system while the ISMI is fully sprung out to normal, so that must be it. I swear I read that the ISMI ones are closer to 1.5 to 2.0 lbs. less than what they say, I guess the Wolff ones are more spot on. This is what I was searching when I found this topic to see if the ISMI ones are actually 2 lb below, or if I copied and pasted that info wrong, since that's what made me go with the ISMI ones, I'd rather have a 9 lb. one anyways, actually even lower as long as I don't get squib's. Update, I just found the link (#10) to where I got the ISMI is 2 lb. lower on average, numerous people said it. Now I'm thinking I should of just ordered the factory recoil spring assembly and gone to my uncle's and done it that way, especially since doing the research for this post and saw it was $6.36 and not the $10 I originally thought it was. Oh well, I'll leave it as is for now. I'm sure I'll think of something else to get at SSS, G&RTactical or MidwayUSA.... in the next 6 months, not a big deal now.

Well I got a confirmation on the G&R Storm Lake barrels. SL told G&R that they should get them on Oct. 1st. He ordered 100 of the FS regular ones and FS threaded ones (don't know the ratio though). I assume it would take him 3 weeks for sure to get through the 45 (+) orders that he has confirmations for. So __IF__ SL follows through on Oct. 1st, I guess you could say at the end of Oct. to early Nov you could get yours started on if you got on the list very soon. I think he wants you to email him and once they actually come in they'll start taking other orders. I just found out that there is another place that does IDPA and their still going until the end of October. I was told I could still go through the orientation and still shoot this year, which I didn't expect. This has me thinking I should probably just get the M&P9 without the barrel so I can try IDPA for the first time. No way I'd be able to get the new gun with the SL barrel in it in time, let alone make my reloads and be able to test them at least once before I'd make it to the match.

Pat, I cut it with a grinder and it worked. However I did not do as good as a job as I wanted. But it'll do though. If I had the money I'd order a couple more as spares and I'd try another one. Thanks again. Also to Dillon, NICE CS !!!

Good question, no clue. I'd like to know also, I assume he said it for a reason? -- The latest info I have on the Apex Bar-Sto stuff is from Randy on M4C: From M4C: M&P Bar-Sto Barrel from Apex Tactical preview Pic http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=81124&page=7 #247 from Randy 08-28-12 Hi all, I am anxiously awaiting the 9mm version production proof barrel. It should arrive here any day now. The .40 barrels are producing some excellent accuracy at the 10-15 yard range. Scott and I took the .40 FS out independently to check function. We both confirmed that with Fed 180 fmj, our off-hand groups were between .5" to .75" for five shots. As soon as I receive the 9mm barrels (and we shoot them for functional reliability) we will do some 25 yard data collection. We are getting closer! -Randy --------------------- So that means in one week to 2 months ?? (: PC Geek Shooter http://www.m4carbine.net/showpost.php?p=1394002&postcount=105 He also posted on M4C on 09-13-12 that the new Glock Gen3,4 Extractors they are coming out with should be done in a few weeks. So they will be busy with that also. Which can be good or bad, most of the time when your busy you get more things done. Assuming family things don't get in the way. ---- ps sorry, the formatting on this site is driving me nuts for the last month (only site have problems with, I sign into like 10-15 different ones a month). I can't do links with text or set to Bold... most of the time, it goes back and forth to working to showing just like text then just a little better than just text or perfect. Never know what you'll get.

Since I wanted a bullet feeder and I know I really, really wanted that RCBS Lock-Out Die, my only option was a 5 station press. Glad I got the 650, since the Lock-Out Die was my main consideration. I'm still planning on looking at the case each time, but I know there's going to be a time when I don't and then at least the Lock-Out Die will be there to hopefully save me. Of course to do that it has to work correctly and I had to set it up correctly. However with using Titegroup or other fast powders you still run a risk of using x more grains and still could get a KB if you are already in the high end of the spectrum to begin with. Luckily I won't be in the high end ever, however I plan on going very low (under minor PF), so a squib would be my main concern if I miss a case and the Lock-Out Die fails. Would be nice if they could eventually come out with a micrometered type Lock-Out Die, like within .2 or .3 grains under and above. Haven't fully tested or read how low or high the Lock-Out Die is set to.

Still haven't gotten an email from GandRTactical. I think I've read there are at least 3 different people with test barrels out there (on M4C and MP-Pistol), let alone the ones he has on hand. I also just read that Storm Lake had a machine go down in early Sept. or maybe end of Aug(?), so who knows how long it took them to get it fixed or replaced, so their a little behind. His original email to me about Sept. 15th was Sept. 4th or so, so don't know if that was right before the machine went down at SL or not, hopefully it broke down before so that they're still on schedule. For all I know they might of already got them in and doing orders for the pre-paid people (I wasn't one of them though). However, this is a good read from 10-8 Performance on 06-24-12: S&W M&P Barrels, An Informal Test Excerpt: Stock gun with no mods, 2012 production. ... It removes the various stress risers ahead of the chamber area, tightens lockup, and brings in a new twist rate... it shot a 2.5” 10 shot group at 25 yards off a rest using Atlanta Arms 115gr match ammo. It shot a 3” group with 147gr ammo, also off a rest.

I agree with FightFireJay. One of the reasons GandRTactical and others I assume, state on top of their site that mfg's don't tell them when they will get OOS items. In regards to the Shield; that doesn't mean that some dealers don't have a close friend that is close to the supply chain or that they won't run into someone who would know that at some point at some show. But that would be very rare for most guns, let alone ones that are in high demand like that.

Thanks for the pic Pat. For others, the only change from Pat's post would be that your Small Powder Bar might be an all metal silver color.

I agree on the manual. The Dillon XL 650 manual is great, I'm referring to it a lot. The Hornady LNL AP manual is very bad compared to the 650's. Didn't get the video though. I have downloaded a number of YouTube videos on the 650 and other things like the RCBS Lock-Out Die...

I know people have been talking about the early unlocking issues on the M&P9 FS and 5". Main reason I got rid of my M&P9L. I know Randy from Apex was working on a new locking block to have a cheaper alternative than purchasing the Apex/Bar-Sto barrels. Anyone hear anymore news on this? Last update I read on M4C was like 4-6 months ago and haven't been paying attention as I am planning on doing the custom fitted Storm Lake barrel from Grant and G&RTactical. Also spending 90% of free time learning more on reloading. Also like the talk on your reloads. Someone made a comment that there will probably be a new topic about the M&P9's accuracy in a week or so, so let's keep this thread updated and it'll always be on page 1 or top of page 2 and we won't have to worry about that

PC - I'm confused by your comment - are you weighing your powder charges in the brass casing? If so, you'll get a different reading with every round and you won't have an accurate weight for the powder charge. You should dump the powder out of the casing into the pan that came with your scale - after you zero the scale with the pan on it. That way you're only measuring the powder weight, not the brass and primer. I hope this helps. Tom I would of used the pan, but I never saw it in the box I got with my Hornady LNL Bench scale. Turns out I just didn't look hard enough, I just found it now. Looking at the box picture it appears that it'd be 3 times bigger. It's more fun the other way anyways I could just delete my post, so I don't look so stupid, but I'll leave it to make others look smarter.

Anyone get much smaller than 3.0 grains with the regular Small Powder Bar? I turned mine to the lowest and I got 2.4 grains to 2.5 grains consistently. Thanks.

I must say, the UniqueTek Micrometer Powder Bar Kit seems to be the coolest, however at $60 I think I like that eBay one better. The Mr. Dial is cool too, however if you look close there are 3 bars in between, for instance going from 3 to 4. With the eBay one, you at least have 4 bars in between which then you could write down 3.2, 3.6 more easily. Of course having 9 bars in between would be the best. Very minor, but still I like the eBay one the best. If I didn't need to hesitate on the money thing, I'd 100% get the UniqueTek for sure, even if only loading for one caliber.