scandog

Does it really make a difference? I don't think so. i have seen shooters shoot T3 first. Did it change anything on their time? No. Daryl

I still dissagree. When you study for a test, you don't get the test ahead of time and just work on that. If you do, you will most likely do better than your actual ability. The same is true for the classifier. If you practice the classifier, you will most likely shoot it better than your match ability. You can practice the skills the classifier covers without actually using the stages. I say this from experience. We have at least 5 shooters that are over classified. We shot it every Wednesday and you could watch peoples scores go down. Then they get to a match and not only get smoked in their classification, but in the one below theirs. This doesn't help the shooter, it hurts them. Practice shooting while moving, kneeling, from barricades. Work on your reloads with an empty gun at home while you are doing your dry fire drills. Then maybe 3 or 4 times a year use the classifier to guage how you are doing. Just shooting the classifier over and over is practice, but practice for what? The matches or the classifier? Daryl

You gamed it correctly according to the course description. Not trying to offend the designer of this stage, but it is a poor IDPA stage. It should have stated the target could not be reingaged. By not doing this, you could have dumped two rounds toward the target, ran right up to it and shot it twice again. A better way to set this up would have been to use a NT or cover to block you from getting a shot when you got up close. That said, you were lucky you didn't get a PE or FTN. I am not saying I would have given you one, but I have met an SO or two that would have claimed you were violating the "Spirit of the stage" and tagged you because you should just know that is not what the stage designer was thinking. By thinking outside the box, you will probably get the title gamer. In IDPA that usually means you were smarter than the stage designer and that is a bad thing. For most of the rest of the world, you would probably get a pat on the back and hear "I wish I would have thought of that".

I agree. You can practice many of the skills in the classifier that are also part of you regular matches. I have seen far too many shooters that practice the classifier just to over classify. Then they go to a local matches and get beat by the shooters in their calss as well as teh shooters in the class below them. They start to get frustrated and some have actually quit shooting because the feel they can't compete. I would not shoot the classifier more than once a month or even every couple months and that would just be for my own evaluation of my practice. For classification, not more than once a year unless you have really improved in your shooting. The idea of the classifier is to put you with a group of shooters that are about the same skill level as yourself. You defeate the effectiveness of this by practicing just for the classifier. Rather than worry about where you classify, just shoot it and see how you do at the matches. That would be a good place to start.

You are 100% correct. If you practice the classifier, you hurt yourself in competition. I still say you should not practice the classifier. You should just shoot it. There are plenty of other drills to practice to help your shooting. Dry firing is a good way to start. Look around on this forum. you will see plenty of other ways to practice.

Jake, you suck. 5-6 Wish I could do that on stage 1. Although I don't agree with tanking the classifier just to be classed lower at a match, don't practice the classifier just to move up. We have far too many shooters that have practiced and moved up just to find out they can't compete at teh higher level. If you are consistantly winning or placing near the top in your current classification, then it might be time to think about moving up. I would not shoot it more than once or twice a year. If you are parcticing just to move up, you probably are not ready. Practice for the matches and the classifier will come on its own.

I know of several shooters that have added a vote to your cause by not renewing their memberships. I am actually thinking about doing the same thing. I am all for a new and improved IDPA that is a true member run organization. I think IDPA was a great start. The problem is HQ stopped caring about the "Members". There is no excuse for the way we are ignored. Rmills, if you are getting all of your questions answered, you are an exception. To say you just have to wait, is 3 weeks reasonable? That was how long my last email took to get a reply. Then the answer was not even close to what the book said. I am not even sure if the correct question was addressed. The reply was more confusing than the LGB. I don't think we need to form a new organization. Just don't send in your membershi dues. If enough people do that, Bill W. will feel it in the pocket. All the advertising he is trying to sell in the TJ will be effected. It would be a good start. One more comment. I don't care if Bill W. runs this himself and gets all the profits. That is not the issue. If he would talk to the AC and MD from around the country, look at the issues and in a timely manner address them. He can have another check from me. Thisnk about this. If you go into a store and they only have one register open and the line is 20 minutes long, do you go Back? That is about where I am at right now except the line is about 2 months long. Daryl

Do you really want to open this can of worms?

As I look at the TJ, I see about 18 pages dedicated to nationals, two pages addressing issues in our sport (Ken's Corner), and a NRA political add and the rest is advertising. For those of us who didn't make it to nationals, the coverage was decent. I think they have a picture of just about everyone who shot. The equipment info was interesting. The partI am missing is a message to the members from Bill W. Where is the part where he tells us what is gong on with the new holster rules? Where is the article that tells us the status of the new rule book? Where is anything other than an advertisement for IDPA and another money making venture for Willson? Have you seen how much of the TJ is now advertising? If that covers the cost of the printing and shipping, great. It must be going pretty good as Joyce even has an add posting a job for someone to sell advertising for the TJ. It would just be nice to get some information from HQ in there. I know I am asking a lot. It must take a tremendous amount of time to write a sentance stating the Rule book won't be out until XX/XX/XXXX. Daryl

Sam, are you turning blue yet? Did you leave instruction for someone to wake you up when the ruling is posted? Sorry, they don't post for everyone to see, you will have to ask for it for yourself. Daryl

Mark, I am not sure what the difference is. There was a shoot through that should have been taken care of when the stage was set up.

This thread is gong to get closed soon as it has turned into our sport is better than yours. I am not so sure about that, but USPSA does a much better job of training RO than IDPA does for SO. USPSA training was a 2 day class taught by one of just a few trainers. Perry put on an excelent training class. They do this to ensure everyone plays by the same rules and uses them in the same way. Then I went to my SO training for IDPA. It was a 4 hour class that started out with a video. The instructor stated he had to show the video, but ignore most of what it states and shows because it is not accurate according to the LGB. After going through the rule book he gave us a short test. In it he asked us to look up rules for specific situations. In some cases we found two or three for a given issue that didn't agree with each other. For our USPSA test, there was only one rule that applied. Now I have just received my card to be a SOI. It came with a letter that stated there was no formal IDPA training guidline. Just use the LGB as a guide. Funny it didn't include the ruling RMILL has quoted and stated was sent out. I have been the MD for 3 years and I have yet to receive anything other than a bill from IDPA HQ and applications for new members. As far as the comment about the AIr-Gunning rule. RMILL, I believe you were told this is a rule by Ken and Bill at nationals. The problem is, you keep going back to the rule book to justify it. It is not a rule in the current rule book. Why not just say Bill and Ken said it was a rule, so I will follow what they told us. This also explains why MOST of us don't agree with you when you say it is in the book. Las comment is on rules being made up on the fly. I shot the nationals in i think 2002. I was called for a procedural on a stage where you had to back while waiting for a target to appear from either the right or left of a wall. I was told by the SO that I stopped moving and shot too fast for him to give me a warning. The rule book states you must give the shooter a warning. I was upset because I didn't agree I stopped. I also had never heard of getting a penalty because I was too fast. Later I learned a member of the super squad had received the same penalty. It was an enlightening 2 days. We realized that the rules are just a guidline. This applied to equipment also. I saw plenty of mag pouches that were not legal. We also realized our local clubs put on just as good a state match for much less money than Nationals. I have not been back yet. Sorry, I got stuck in rant mode, but this topic has realy wondered. Daryl

I just hope this finally quiets those that have for the last 2 or 3 years been spouting IDPA is training. I wouldn't even try to count the number of posting that have thrown the training comment in. The first paragraph was almost the same as comments I have been posting on here and other sites. The last sentance was great, " We all agreed that if you wish to learn how to defend yourself with a handgun, a propler shooting school or instructor should be used." Daryl

The bottom line is there are clubs that are going to make up their own rules or apply rules that are not in the LGB and there will be clubs that adhere strictly to the rule book. From the posting on this topic, I think we can all see who sits where. It also looks like emotion is going to over rule logic. If the rule book was clear on subjects like "Air-Gunning" and HQ doesn't care enough to put something in writing, do whatever you want. I have stepped down as MD as I can no longer try to defend a sport that doesn't seem to care about its members. Mark, when you go to a match, to you shoot to win? Do you think through the stage and figure out where you are gong to do your reloads? Do you think about which direction you will turn when the buzzer sounds? If you answer yes to any of these, by your rules, you should get a procedureal or a FTDR. I guess it depends on what mood you are in. For the rest of you, good luck. I don't think he is ever going to admit it is not in the rule book. Daryl

No penalty. The only reason you got one was you outsmarted the stage designer. The Match director should have looked over the stages prior to the match. If they sis not want any shoot throughs, it is there responsability to make sure they don't exist. Will you get penalties for this in the future? Sure, because there are too many SOs that think they should be able to read new meaning into the rule book. Next time, just ask the SO. I have set up stages where you could do this. I intended for the shooter to be able to do it. If IDPA states shoot throughs count, how can you give a penalty for it? That just doesn't makes any sense. The shooter doesn't know what the Stage designer was thinking any more than the SO knows what the shooter is thinking. If you don't want a shoot through to count, you need to state it in the course description. Daryl