Training

[gunracer38]

Last night I was watching the Outdoor channel. The show was about Jessie Abbate and how often she shoots before a match. How many of you can shoot 500 to 1000 rounds a day two months before a match? She does and is very fast and accurate. Many of us are not even close to that amount.

[badassmcgraff]

I shoot at least 500 rounds a day during the week.

[The_Vigilante]

Maybe Jessie has a sponsor that lets her have the ammo free and apparently she doesn't have to work for a living-must be nice!!

[Jake Di Vita]

Must be nice to be independently wealthy.

[dsmw5142]

I've been taking Ben Stoeger's advice from his website and using a .22 conversion to get in more trigger time on the cheap. I try and alternate between dry fire and live fire days. I work nights and alternate range and dry fire days as work permits. If you count .22, I might run through 4-500 rounds in a practice session, depending on how hard I'm going at it.

Edited October 27, 2009 by dsmw5142

[boz1911]

Maybe Jessie has a sponsor that lets her have the ammo free and apparently she doesn't have to work for a living-must be nice!!

There's no maybe to it. Professional shooter and a good one!

[safarihunter]

I'm going to have to get my 22 conversion back out. I don't have the time to reload that much every week, let alone pay for the components.

[Bongo Boy]

For those of us who have shooting as a hobby and have to keep a day job, it's not too likely we can approach that. Reloading helps me a lot with unit cost, but I can't devote the time to reloading even 250 rds a day...it just takes too long for case prep and bullet casting.

This makes it all the more important to make each range session count for as much as possible--in my case it makes me all that much more serious about having a specific 'program' for each session, which is something I'm working on. Imagine the power of BOTH lots of range time AND a coach to help ensure that time was spent well!

I burn between 150 and 250 rds, usually, when I go to the range, but that's been only about an average of 1.5 days per week. If I want to spend more time at the range, I'll have to switch from action to bullseye.

[CHA-LEE]

Think of quality of practice, not quantity. I can learn the same thing about my shooting with 100 rounds as with 1000 in the same training session. So why throw away the extra 900 rounds? If you make every round fired count towards your "Lesson" of the day, you really don't have to shoot that much ammo to bake in the lesson.

[Team Amish 1]

First, shooting every day definitely affects your wallet and then, if you have family, they probably like to see you too, every now and then.

I'd like to spend more days at the range but just can't, and I usually split my practice into a .22 part and a centerfire part.

During the week, dryfire and a pellet gun have to do the trick. I think, in my case, approx. 300 to 550 (the value brick) of .22's and approx. 100-200 centerfire, are what I go through in a practice session, if I am by myself.

[LPatterson]

Think of quality of practice, not quantity. I can learn the same thing about my shooting with 100 rounds as with 1000 in the same training session. So why throw away the extra 900 rounds? If you make every round fired count towards your "Lesson" of the day, you really don't have to shoot that much ammo to bake in the lesson.

I am wondering how many times you have tried this before making this statement. Most experts believe it takes 10 of thousands of reps to ingrain muscle memory so how many years is that going to take you at 100 rounds per day. The OP was talking about a professional shooter trying to become the best in the world. Michael Phelps talked about swimming 6-8 hours a day EVERY DAY training for the Olympics. Todd Jarrett is said to have gone through 30,000 in the month before Ecuador. I'm only a "C" shooter and I went through 1500 rounds in the month before an area match trying for a class win.

Perhaps YOU should try the 1000 before your next classifier.

[GForceLizard]

Most of us are not able to shoot as much as we would like. There is not enough free time or money or we don't want to go through the divorce that would result if we did. I am only getting to the range 4 to 6 times a month. Less than 750 live rounds a month for practice and club matches. After that I have to count on dry fire and airsoft at home.

[CHA-LEE]

LPatterson> Good points but think about it from a different perspective. Why would you need 1000 reps to properly “learn” to do anything? Did you need 1000 reps to learn how to open a door? How about dialing a phone to make a call? Did it take you 1000 calls to fully understand how to punch in the numbers to make the call? If you are not paying attention to what you are doing, then sure, it could take longer and more reps to learn. But if you are truly observing every nuance of what you are doing and making the appropriate corrections as soon as issues are identified, then it will not take too many repetitions to start getting it right. That and I am a firm believer that the main “Challenge” in USPSA style shooting isn’t the actual shooting, but the mechanics of movement as you shoot or between shots. A lot of these movement mechanics can be practiced and perfected without burning through any ammo.

I went from a “U” classification in Limited to “M” in a year. This wasn’t done by shooting a boat load of ammo in every live fire practice session. It was done by shooting less and analyzing/observing more while shooting. Then taking more time in between shooting strings to break down and analyzing issues in order to resolve them. I could be at the range for 4 – 6 hours and only go through 100 – 150 rounds. But I am learning the whole time because I am analyzing every little thing I am doing. Not just blasting through a mountain of ammo for the sake of blasting. Do you really need to bash your head into a wall 1000 times before you realize that it isn’t the best thing to do? No. Practice Smart. Quality of practice should always supersede Quantity. If you are practicing a high quantity of bad quality practice then you are doing more harm than good.

[bkeeler]

LPatterson> Good points but think about it from a different perspective. Why would you need 1000 reps to properly “learn” to do anything? Did you need 1000 reps to learn how to open a door? How about dialing a phone to make a call? Did it take you 1000 calls to fully understand how to punch in the numbers to make the call? If you are not paying attention to what you are doing, then sure, it could take longer and more reps to learn. But if you are truly observing every nuance of what you are doing and making the appropriate corrections as soon as issues are identified, then it will not take too many repetitions to start getting it right. That and I am a firm believer that the main “Challenge” in USPSA style shooting isn’t the actual shooting, but the mechanics of movement as you shoot or between shots. A lot of these movement mechanics can be practiced and perfected without burning through any ammo.

I went from a “U” classification in Limited to “M” in a year. This wasn’t done by shooting a boat load of ammo in every live fire practice session. It was done by shooting less and analyzing/observing more while shooting. Then taking more time in between shooting strings to break down and analyzing issues in order to resolve them. I could be at the range for 4 – 6 hours and only go through 100 – 150 rounds. But I am learning the whole time because I am analyzing every little thing I am doing. Not just blasting through a mountain of ammo for the sake of blasting. Do you really need to bash your head into a wall 1000 times before you realize that it isn’t the best thing to do? No. Practice Smart. Quality of practice should always supersede Quantity. If you are practicing a high quantity of bad quality practice then you are doing more harm than good.

I would agree you don't have to shoot a butt load of ammo at every live fire session. In my live fire sessions I usually shoot 200-300(closer to 200 round mark) rounds it just depends on what I am working on. It took me 2 years to make A Class in Limited only shooting 4- 5k rounds per year and most of the rounds are in matches major and local. The quality of practice is key. Not saying if I could afford it I would be shooting live fire a lot more but I still would keep the round count the same for each session just do more sessions.

[ong45]

There is no right or wrong side to this, that much shooting is what it took Jessie to accomplish what she did this year.

Note that her steel challenge time this year was the best ever for a lady. She also won 2 nationals.

How bad did she want all that ?

Think of quality of practice, not quantity. I can learn the same thing about my shooting with 100 rounds as with 1000 in the same training session.

You're assuming someone else who shoots 500 rounds is not getting 5 times more out of it than you do ?

It takes what it takes to get better, anyone going to tell Todd he could have saved a lot of time and money if he practiced intelligently ?

Is it possible that no one knew how to practice before this forum existed ?

Not preaching just sayin.......

Edited December 8, 2009 by ong45

[Sandro]

This is no secret, if you shoot more you will get better, "assuming" you know what you're after.

I think the cost of ammo has definably impacted the poor man shooters of like this year too.

I saw the Steel Challenge on TV the other day and I think most shooters were shooting 5,000 rounds on side matches “prior” to the big match. It has been like that for years, Erick G. is well known for going to the Philippines prior to the World shoot match and shot 20,000k in 20 days.

I was working on a schedule for my practice and local matches and if I were to shoot all the practice sections I wanted to and shoot all the matches I would be about 30,000 in 2010. That is not going to happen because it was too expensive, so I am cutting back like everyone else I guess.

I am becoming more of the casual shooter, and I have realize that when you go to a big match you have to accept some will put more into it than you have. That is a fact that nobody can control. Having said that I think the States still the best place to shoot IPSC, any other country would be even more of an elite sport.

DVC,

Sandro

[CHA-LEE]

You guys keep defaulting back to round counts for Steel Challenge practice. Sure you are going to blow though a TON of ammo practicing for Steel challenge because that’s ALL you do. You stand, draw, and shoot the SAME stages over and over and over. So your practice for that is going to be the same.

Comparing Steel Challenge practice to the run and gun freestyle practice of USPSA/IPSC is like comparing apples to oranges. In USPSA/IPSC matches the majority of the stage time is won/lost in efficiency of the movement through the stage and coming up with the best plan of attack for the stage. You can work on and optimize the mechanics of movement or proper stage breakdown for any particular USPSA/IPSC stage for HOURS without firing a single shot.

I would much rather spend 8 hours working improving the mechanics of body movement through a stage (Shooting on the move, entering & exiting shooting positions, Target engagement orders) which will save me multiple seconds on any given stage. Verses spending the same amount of time doing reloads or one shot draws to save tenths of a second on a very small aspect of USPSA/IPSC match stages I will shoot.

Too many people practice the wrong stuff. For example, at USPSA/IPSC matches, who cares if you can do a sub 1 second draw/first shot if you can’t shoot on the move effectively? You save a couple of tenths of a second on your first shot and then waste 3 – 5 seconds because you can’t shoot on the move. You tell me, which thing(s) should you be practice the most to maximize your USPSA/IPSC match shooting skills? That actual “Shooting” is pretty far down on the list in my book as there are way more things you can work on to save a lot of stage time.

[ong45]

You guys keep defaulting back to round counts for Steel Challenge practice. Sure you are going to blow though a TON of ammo practicing for Steel challenge because that’s ALL you do. You stand, draw, and shoot the SAME stages over and over and over. So your practice for that is going to be the same.

Comparing Steel Challenge practice to the run and gun freestyle practice of USPSA/IPSC is like comparing apples to oranges.

Since this thread is about Jessie may i point out that this particular " steel specialist " has posted the 2 highest percenteges for a lady shooting the limited nationals ( correct me if i'm wrong)

Steel and " run and gun " may not be as different as you think, note the past champions are not ( with one exception ) chumps in the ipsc game but that might be a different discussion.

That actual “Shooting” is pretty far down on the list in my book as there are way more things you can work on to save a lot of stage time.

Odd i always thought points ( actual shooting) made the most difference.

Edited December 8, 2009 by ong45

[CHA-LEE]

ong45> Yep, points are a big part of it too. But if I shoot the same points as you in half the time where does that put you other than way back in the results?

[ong45]

ong45> Yep, points are a big part of it too. But if I shoot the same points as you in half the time where does that put you other than way back in the results?

I'll study my hit factor textbook and get back to you.

[Jake Di Vita]

If you can't hit the target shot for shot (whatever that target may be), then it won't matter a damn bit how fast you shoot the stage.

[CHA-LEE]

I didn't think that I had to state the obvious of needing to hit what you are shooting at during a stage run. That fact should be a given, but it isn’t to some I guess. My point was that the main difference between the lower and upper end USPSA/IPSC shooters THAT CAN HIT THE TARGETS THEY ARE SHOOTING AT is the time it takes to navigate the COF. A HUGE chunk of that time is efficiency or inefficiency in your movements through the COF.

[calishootr]

Back 20 yrs ago, I thought I had to be knee deep in brass at every practice session to get even a modicum of benefit of improved skills and such, hell one yr, I 'll admit it I burned 30,000 rds thru 1 gun in a single yr....now 20 yrs later, looking back at it, did I shoot those 30,000 rds 'intelligently'???? probably not, blastingto be blasting is onething, but now, we have access to lots of different materials that can and do help us in improving our individual skill levels, this forum for one!!!!!! we have DVD's and youtube etc....hell the internet....I have some magill tapes around here somewhere that have been re-wound waaay too many times trying to get every scrap of info out of em back in the day....you can do all this and not haveto spend a dime on range fee's and more importantly these days AMMO....

[Bigpops]

I didn't think that I had to state the obvious of needing to hit what you are shooting at during a stage run. That fact should be a given, but it isn’t to some I guess. My point was that the main difference between the lower and upper end USPSA/IPSC shooters THAT CAN HIT THE TARGETS THEY ARE SHOOTING AT is the time it takes to navigate the COF. A HUGE chunk of that time is efficiency or inefficiency in your movements through the COF.

I agree..the KISS principle really applies....for some people.

[SA Friday]

Charlie, you remember that conversation we had about 6 months ago on the way to Whistling Pines?