Keys to success - Bianchi Barricade

[Allgoodhits]

Martin--you always give good advise. My Aimpoint dot sure was making some nice Saturn Rings--just gotta practice it on metal cades-- wood ones sure are easier. Thx

Thanks, Lrjet, yes wood has a bit shock absorbancy, that metal will not have. The Saturn Rings or similar, are normal, the consistency and firmness of the mount/grip will keep the rings minimized and consistent. Both of which are beneficial in the recovery time leading to the next shot. So if you are having rings, then you must be shooting an auto. Remember, the balls to pause! The dot will settle down, just make sure you don't yank on the trigger when it stops, because that will put the dot "in motion" before the bullet leaves the barrel.

The trigger will dictate an all important element that we all forget from time to time. That being where the dot "was" when the bullet left the muzzle. This is more critical, than where the dot "is" when you press the trigger! The ideal world has the was as unchanged from the is. If the was and is are the same you had good trigger press/control. If not you didn't. Now just make sure the is, is in the right place.

The trigger is the eraser in shooting. No matter how good everything else is: grip, stance, breathing, sighting the bad press/control of the trigger will erase it all.

Have fun, and speak to as many people as you can. There are different strokes for different folks. Just don't bail too quickly, because something that didn't work yesterday, may work tomorrow, when you have a better understanding of what is going on during the firing sequence.

Later,

Martin

[Chuck Anderson]

Does anyone have specifics on barricade construction. Not just dimensions but what the Cup barricades are made of and how they are placed. I've seen pictures but none of them show the ground. Are they permanent installs at that range? The ones we have at the club have a metal frame with wheels that you can roll them on when tipped over. I'd like to get the construction as close as possible to Columbia. Is the barricade just plywood with 2x4 support or is there something else covering it? Since they're painted black it's hard to tell.

[Allgoodhits]

Does anyone have specifics on barricade construction. Not just dimensions but what the Cup barricades are made of and how they are placed. I've seen pictures but none of them show the ground. Are they permanent installs at that range? The ones we have at the club have a metal frame with wheels that you can roll them on when tipped over. I'd like to get the construction as close as possible to Columbia. Is the barricade just plywood with 2x4 support or is there something else covering it? Since they're painted black it's hard to tell.

Chuck,

The BC barricade is anchored onto a concrete pad, which is the preferred way. However, some of the portable barricades "can" be just as good if the pad is firm and the barricade bottom rests completely flat and does not flex too much or wobble. The standing zone is the width of the barricade and 3 ft in length.

The wall structure is 2x6 ft and made of plywood, typically 3/8 to 1/2" thick. The sides have 2" angle iron mpounted such that the edge of the barricade is the width of the plywood and the 2" angle iron. The bolts which hold the barricaed should be spaced and shortened such that when an open gun shooter grabs the barricade tow things do not happen. One the bolt heads either need to be recessed, or flat and the nut end of the bolt on the other side should be shortened as much as possible and smoothed of any sharp spots if possible.

Hope that helps.

MJ

[Action Pistolero]

The thickness of the barricade is 2" including the plywood. 1.5" angle iron plus 1/2" plywood and your good. I believe the metal itself is 1/4". I'll have to check that.

[Allgoodhits]

The thickness of the barricade is 2" including the plywood. 1.5" angle iron plus 1/2" plywood and your good. I believe the metal itself is 1/4". I'll have to check that.

Kevin, 1/4" thick angle iron is very thick. I am pretty sure I have never seen 1/4" thich angle iron used. What I have seen is 1/8" thickness. You, of course, have been to far more venues than I have. The angle iron also in my experience is 2" in most incidences, but again I'll yield to your more extensive knowledge. From memory, one of the barricades, angle iron, at Bedford is a different size than all the others at Bedford. Memory serves that the one is slightly thinner than the others. Maybe Alan, can straighten me out on this.

Kevin congrats on your 1916 at Charlotte, and of course to Travis 1902. Great starts this early in the season.

MJ

[gm iprod]

The barricades at Hamilton NZ for the 2008 Worlds are made from 1 1/2" angle, 1/8" thick material. Plus the 1/2" plywood facia giving 2" overall thickness. Although 1/4" thick material for the angle iron would very sturdy.

Although I have shot on some barricades using 1 1/4" boxe section and thicker ply. They are hard to get you hand around. Really stable frame, they now sit on a concrete pad without being bolted down. They are plain heavy, so are quite stable to shoot from, vibration is an issue, but it is good practice to have these things bounce the dot all over the target.

[Resjudicata]

Does anyone else here shoot Metallic or Production regularly? I'm still having trouble with the barricade. I've tried disregarding the barricade, knuckles on the face of the barricade and back of the hand on the outside of the barricade. So far none of these help significantly. Are there any other ideas or pointers? Basically, I haven't found an option that actually helps with keeping the sight steady at the speed that you need to shoot for the barricade.

Chris

[Action Pistolero]

Chris,

Rob told me he leans into the barricade with all his might. I don't use the barricade for support at 10 yards. Other than that, jam your hands into the barricade and push like hell.

[wanderer]

chris

i haven't entirely nailed the left side but on the right i put my right foot in the back corner, lean forward on top 2 knuckles of the left hand and as AP said, push like hell. i lean on it at all distances except for the left side 10y.

[DWFAN]

I can visualize what to do on the right side, but what about the left ? Its been suggested to rest my wrist on the left side, but that doesnt allow you to press forward very much.

I struggle with the barricade also, and usually just shoot free handed not touching at all on either side.

[Resjudicata]

Chris,

Rob told me he leans into the barricade with all his might. I don't use the barricade for support at 10 yards. Other than that, jam your hands into the barricade and push like hell.

Do you know if he switches hands for the left side of the barricade?

I've tried putting pressure on the face of the barricade with my knuckles but not pushing like hell. I guess that is next to try.

Chris

[Action Pistolero]

From what I have seen, he doesn't. He does use gloves. It's kind of like weight lifting. No pain, no gain.

[gm iprod]

I follow what Bruce Piatt does, with tweaks to find what works for me.

If you are rigth handed you shoot left foor forward both sides of the barricade.

RH Side, Grip gun normally, press FIRMLY into barricade with left hand knuckles as flat as you can across the three or four knuckles that you can best make contact with. Keep gun vertical and position feet so that you have good body position withinthe box. Some people do not usethe barricade at 10 yards. I do currently but may switch as I think KEvin is right about 10yards and no support. I will find out this weekend.

LH Side, 10 yards, you should be able to keep clear of the barricade and shoot unsupported (like Kevin) easily enough. You don't have time to use the barricade.

From 15yards. Grip gun normally, press firmly into barricade with left hand, gun is canted to allow the frame and trigger guard to clear the barricade. Essentially you have contact with the barricade with the first joint of the index finger down the the knuckle of the little finger. The Glove (I use a Uncle Mikes Neoprene) prevents a total mangling ofthe fingers. It still hurts. Your sight picture is still 6 O'clock as you see the target over the sights. You are effectively actually aiming at 5 O'clock, it just looks like 6 o'clock. You ignore the fact that the target is vertical and your gun is not. Place left foot as far forward as is conforatble to get a good lock out and still remain inside the box. Richt foot is whereever it needs to be to balance yourself.

Hopefully this helps.

[Spangler]

Metallic shooter here...Man you guys make this sound SOOO easy sometimes. I've tried every way I can think (or read) of and still struggle with the left side at 25 and 35. It just makes no sense, I can smoke x's at 10 and mostly x's at 15. Then I get to 25 and 35 and seems like there's always a 5 that wants to show up. I'm going to try just shooting without any barricade support, can't do much worse??

[gm iprod]

Way back in 2005, I think, some geezer from Arizona shot a 480-35X barricade not touching it at all, with a Metallic Gun.

TGO I think we know him as.

Best I have ever doen in a match (not the Cup) is 473. I also get the nasty 5 coming to bite my butt. Most often better than 460 sometimes better than 470. My average would be about 466. I tend to do nicely around the 468-470 mark then all of a sudden I blow out to 450.

[grayguns]

Hi! Over the many years I've jerked around with a number of grasp and grapple techniques to handle an iron sight gun on the Barricade, with interesting results at times. Since the last thing I want is my Barricade performance to be "interesting", I've been taking a fresh look at it since actively training with my X5 for Production this winter.

I shoot right-handed. Over the years, shooting a 1911 in Iron Sight or the old Production categories, I recall that my left-side performance was more consistent. Despite the angle, lack of thumb, the nasty pinching and the funny POI, I found that the setup and sight return were both a bit better than off the right side. I think this may have been in part because I saw the left side as more challenging and thus didn't take it for granted, but I think the main reason why it was better for me had to do with the fact that, when the setup was "right", I could anchor the pistol axially by contacting the barricade side with both the trigger guard and the side of the frame.

Now that I finally have time, resources and hands that work again, I'm coming back to Bianchi after more than a decade away. I'm liking this new Production category. However, I now see language applicable, at least to Production shooters, that prohibits contacting the barricade with the blower at any time. I assume that this includes even casual contact, such as during setup before shots are fired? That gives me great pause, and has me working around with some other technique options.

Of course, the only technique that matters in the end involves managing the trigger well and paying attention. So, just holding off the thing and blasting away, as in the hairy-eyeball days back when Robbie cleaned the damned thing (still, to me, the most impressive feat I've ever seen) is appealing to me. I'm not uncomfortable with precise offhand shooting. However, I recall how it was years ago when we couldn't touch the wall; a clean run at 35 yards would look and feel about the same as one down some 8's. I can still shoot the lean-around pretty clean now, but I certainly can't clean it every time. It's just too iffy. I'm thus resolved that if I can dope out a method of grappling that gives me more consistency at 25 and 35 over just ignoring the wall, I'll use it.

The right side is doable as-is. I just place the leaf-hand knuckle and thumb against the wall with the pistol just off it and an inch below my sighting line, and bend into the thing like I mean to push it over. No issues there, at least with the heavy SIG. But now, the left side is not so easy.

Without being able to anchor the gun itself against the side iron (or rather, being charged with avoiding touching it at all upon pain of penalty), I've been trying a few alternatives on the left. One technique that actually seems to be working for me (and which I probably stole from somebody else 30 years ago, now forgotten) involves straightening my left index finger to form a brace against the side iron, whilst bringing the knuckles of the middle and ring fingers to bear on the face. This all works to keep the gun clear of the barricade, while actually increasing both the area and spread of support provided by the left hand. Setup is a bit more tricky, as there's a tendency to jam one's index finger into the damned wall on presentation and break it off. However, you'll only do that once. I hope y'all will try this and tell me if it works for your hands and platform? Not sure how well a lighter pistol and / or one with a sharper grip angle like the Glock will handle off the wall using such a technique. The big SIG X5 AllAround has a relatively vertical grip angle and a somewhat fat grip that, to my mind, is an advantage here. (Plus, it weighs about 11 pounds. NRA Action seems to be a discipline it's fully competitive in, just as it comes.) In a few weeks, Roy Nelson (our foreman here at GGI) and I are both going down to California to practice with Mickey, who's also coming out of retirement to shoot Production. He's running a G34 and says he likes it. I look forward to seeing how he solves this barricade issue and will report back.

Use of the requisite glove is of course mandatory. Glove selection has been a quandary for me that I could use some advice to solve. In times past we were paranoid about padding and anything that could be construed as providing artificial support. What sort of glove will fly these days? And, do I have to wear it all week for everything? If so, I'm going with a fringed and sequined Dale Evans-style cowboy gauntlet so I'll look good at the Western banquet. But what do y'all wear? I still have scars on my right index finger from getting torn up on the wall, and seek a good padded, but legal, glove that I can still shoot the weak-hand string with if indeed it must be worn throughout the entire match. Your advice will be much appreciated.

I hope my comments are helpful and look forward to better ideas. Thanks!

-Bruce

[Action Pistolero]

Bruce,

Just to make sure you are clear on this, you cannot wrap fingers around the angle iron or rest the gun on the barricade. It can, however, touch the barricade during recoil. As long as the gun does not make contact with the barricade before the shot breaks you are good.

I use baseball gloves. I cut the index fingers off to the first joint. They have velcro to wrap around the wrists but these cannot be tightened as they would be considered "artificial support". The gloves could use some more padding as I pinch the crap out of my index finger of the left hand shooting from the left side.

You do not have to wear the gloves for all the events. The rules do state that if you start the event wearing gloves then you have to use them through the entire event or vice versa.

See ya there,

Kevin

[grayguns]

Bruce,

Just to make sure you are clear on this, you cannot wrap fingers around the angle iron or rest the gun on the barricade. It can, however, touch the barricade during recoil. As long as the gun does not make contact with the barricade before the shot breaks you are good.

I use baseball gloves. I cut the index fingers off to the first joint. They have velcro to wrap around the wrists but these cannot be tightened as they would be considered "artificial support". The gloves could use some more padding as I pinch the crap out of my index finger of the left hand shooting from the left side.

You do not have to wear the gloves for all the events. The rules do state that if you start the event wearing gloves then you have to use them through the entire event or vice versa.

See ya there,

Kevin

Thank you, Kevin. This is very useful information. I've been out of it too long! I misinterpreted the language about gloves..."event" means a match. Of course, I should have remembered this. The thing I'm struggling with is how to keep the trigger guard / frame off the iron, after years and years anchoring it there. I'll keep at it and will look into your baseball glove suggestion. Thank you again! -Bruce

Edited April 22, 2011 by grayguns

[Skywatcher]

really dont think there is a true set rule to follow as 1 guy will tell you if you use a glove you must use it for all of match but then the top 3 use a glove only on barricade but no other match then it says if wrist support/strap cant be used but yet again pros has wrist strap and others have to cut it off,