CHA-LEE Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 On a positive note…… I had a questionable hit on a target while shooting stage 7. I had the stage CRO pull the target and call for the RM to make a final determination on the hit. The RM came over promptly then looked at the target and made the call. Regardless of out outcome of the call, I thanked the RO/CRO for taking the time to pull the target and summon the RM and then thanked the RM for taking the time to come and make the call. Everyone involved handled the situation in a top notch manner. To me this whole process was efficient and was handled perfectly. I ended up with a miss on that target from the call made by the RM but was fine with the call. Not because he is the “All knowing, my word is final RM” but instead because he took the time to look at the situation extensively then explain why it was a miss even though the hit was an oval shape and looked like it might be two hits. He used the overlay to show exactly why it was a single hit no matter what shape the hole in the target was. To me the main thing to set the tension level of the whole situation was ME, the shooter. I was nice and polite while initially questioning the CRO’s call then graciously asked if the RM could be called to make a final determination. Then when it was all over I thanked everyone for taking the time to double check it for me. Everyone was happy and the whole situation went as smooth as glass. Most importantly it made me feel like I was given a fair call and that the RO, CRO, and RM didn’t have to feel like they were the bad guy or needed to defend their position on the call in a reactive “CALM YOU DOWN” kind of way. We all get excited or antagonistic at times but in the end being nice and respectful to others usually allows others to return the same. If you come out of the gate acting like a prick then don’t expect much honey coming your way in a response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHA-LEE Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 Its still each persons choice to either promote or defuse an escalating situation. If the RM would have come to my situation all pissed off I would have done my best to defuse the situation by responding in a nice, calm and respectable manner. If he continued to be a prick then I would simply walk away, problem solved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bergie Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 (edited) I initially had a large post I was going to make regarding some of the things that have been said regarding competitors "screaming" and such, but I decided it wasn't worth it---as thus far, most of the people replying weren't there, and it won't really make any difference at this point. I'll just say two things: 1) One person's idea of "screaming" may be other people's idea of "yelling loudly as they don't have powered ear protection, just regular, and the winds were really high", and 2) The young shooter with me wondered out loud why the RM over-reacted so much to the _laughing_ (true, loudly spoken) comments by the shooter, including, in her words, why the RM "was being so rude". And yes, I was there. I had no comment to make during the entire time, so it was interesting to watch how a mistake in communication (initially, the shooter was yelling to be heard over the wind, and was being humorous over his request for a reshoot, and the RM heard "yelling at him" and demands instead of requests) turned into a argumentative confrontation as the RM pointed a finger at a competitor and yelled at them to back off, then yelled at the rest of the squad "Show me the rule in the book. Got that? Show me it in the book!" This was after several people on the squad tried to explain (yes, yelling loudly) the situation after the RM had yelled at the initial competitor. Many failures in communication, on both sides. The initial competitor wasn't meaning to be confrontational---he was just loud, and laughing as he asked for a reshoot. But after a long day fixing problems, the RM didn't hear it that way. When the RM reacted, several people on the squad (who should have stayed out of it) tried to explain, but since they all were talking loudly, the RM just heard yelling directed at him, which made the situation worse. It went downhill from there, including when a shooter showed the RM the exact rule in the book applicable to the situation, and the RM said "Yes, of course it is a re-shoot!" ---which is what everyone knew in the first place, but everyone thought the other person disagreed with. So, for those who weren't there and have no idea what happened: Shooters didn't mean to yell AT the RM. The RM reacted to handle what he thought was confrontational competitors who needed to settle down. People watching were wondering why the RM over-reacted. The RM was wondering why everyone had gone insane and was yelling at him. Everyone thought the other person was arguing over a clear rules call. And to top it all off---the RM had been initially called for a calibration that was now unnecessary as the popper had fallen over due to the wind, and when the RM got there, the shooter asked for a calibration on a fallen popper as a joke---which started the whole thing. Apparently I _am_ going to post a lot, instead of just two things. So: Indeed, shooters should stay calm. There is no reason ever to scream at an official (or _anyone_) at a match. In the same vein, range officials should stay calm. Lack of calm on everyone's part leads to poor communication, whereupon we get situations like this, in which both sides end up wondering what the hell is wrong with the other guy. Other people who are chiming in with "they should have been DQ'ed for unsportsmanlike conduct" and such---might want to wait until they know details before jumping to conclusions. [Edited to fix typos that turned a sentence into gibberish.] -TH I was there. This is a perfect explaination of what happened. Well said, Tom Edited March 25, 2010 by Bergie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonsay Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 (edited) On a positive note…… I had a questionable hit on a target while shooting stage 7. I had the stage CRO pull the target and call for the RM... So you are the one that caused all the problems on my stage (not to be confused with the prior post). Just kidding... I think you were my last squad on Saturday in the whiteout. As an RO the first priority is to keep the bay safe... then score it accurately, and keep the match/squads moving. When I shoot, I know RO's are human too, so I follow them during the score. If I don't agree with a call, as a shooter, I don't mind asking for the plastic, and if I don't agree then, a RM is only a call away. It's a second set of eyes and final confirmation. It's a second opinion, nothing more, nothing less. Pull the target and keep shooting. I would expect the same scrutiny as a shooter, and it's why I don't mind it as an RO. Getting it right is the main thing. All of the shooters that came through were troopers and most of them with smiles. Edited March 25, 2010 by simonsay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom and Nathan Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 Well, this was mine and my jr shooter son's first big USPSA match! Did we pick a winner for a first major match? DAMN STRAIGHT! I have never experienced anything like it in my life. Wow. I did ok for an old, broken down grunt and the kid did a fine job (2nd C class limited). Hats off to all involved, we'll be back! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JorDanO Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 Well, this was mine and my jr shooter son's first big USPSA match! Did we pick a winner for a first major match? DAMN STRAIGHT! I have never experienced anything like it in my life. Wow. I did ok for an old, broken down grunt and the kid did a fine job (2nd C class limited). Hats off to all involved, we'll be back! And you finally won something. How are you liking your new Rudy's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1911jerry Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 Thank you to all who worked their butts off. Thanks to Mr. Porter and his staff, the RO's who eroneously thought all 5 of my perfect doubles were mikes,and thanks to the sponsors for their contributions. Jerry "Perfect Double" Snyder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom and Nathan Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 Jordan, wait till you see who's wearing them this Saturday! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Hedlund Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 Check out this video to get an idea of the conditions we shot under Saturday. This was the last stage we shot on Saturday, when it started snowing a bit harder and the wind picked up. It also got alot slicker out there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dqshooter Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 Thanks for all the great comments about the match and the staff, everyone is welcome back. We had more DQs than most matched, I think it was more about lack of focus than than poor stage design,(180 breaks, dropped guns and unsafe gun handling) none of these were judgement calls, they were clear cut. I do not like to send anyone home, especially our match. We want folks to come and have a good time. Doubles are unfortunately what I see with an overlay, I would give it to you if I could, my goal is to be consistant. Challenging a call is your right and I have no problem looking at it, but i will always back my RO's judgement. Keep that in mind. On the other situation, passionate discusion can be miss-read and I will leave it at that. I did have a couple of competitors approach me about desisions last year, if things were cool between us. Folks I hold no grudges, as soon as a situation is over, it is over. If I didn't want you to come back I would let you know right up front. Yes there are shooters that I don't care for, they will always get a fair call from me. It is about the sport not any feeling that I may have one way or the other. i want this match to be the best match with the best staff, prize table, stages and scoring. I do hope that everyone wants to come back and enjoy the match. Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dqshooter Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 One other thing, I welcome feedback about the match and I don't take things personal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay870 Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 Check out this video to get an idea of the conditions we shot under Saturday. This was the last stage we shot on Saturday, when it started snowing a bit harder and the wind picked up. It also got alot slicker out there... Wow that mud looks terrible ! I bitch and moan about trudging through the sugar sand at our range but I'll have a new perspective on that now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas H Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 Thanks for all the great comments about the match and the staff, everyone is welcome back. We had more DQs than most matched, I think it was more about lack of focus than than poor stage design,(180 breaks, dropped guns and unsafe gun handling) none of these were judgement calls, they were clear cut. I do not like to send anyone home, especially our match. We want folks to come and have a good time. I don't think there were any cases of poor stage design for the match. Yes, you had to move sideways and backwards several times---but in no case were those movements dangerous. In the same vein, while it was occasionally possible to shoot a target past the 180 line, the shooter _always_ had a number of chances to hit the target safely. I think the stages were fine. I'm thinking the number of DQs could (in part) be blamed on the weather. In that cold, it was hard to concentrate, and in several cases, cold guns and cold hands just added up to fumbled gun-handling. In this match, for the first time ever, I did NOT have fun shooting. I was frozen and miserable, my support hand was injured, and I just couldn't handle the firearm well in that level of cold. (I have almost NO cold resistance---kind of pathetic, actually.) I didn't enjoy the match. That being said, the really important thing is this: The match itself should have been a ton of fun. The stages were nicely tricky and fast, the props were excellent, the general attitude was great---the whole thing, on any other day, would have been a blast. How it went for me had _nothing_ to do with anything the match people could control---the weather just killed it for me. However, I am planning on coming back next year, because if they plan another match at the level of this one, I want to shoot it! It'll be great. With that level of stage design, the general format of the match, the prize table setup, and just the overall level of fun---this really is a match that people should come shoot. You won't regret it. Unless the weather hates you. I'm glad Porter has decided to move the match date. I just hope the new date matches a time when I can come shoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHA-LEE Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 Check out this video to get an idea of the conditions we shot under Saturday. This was the last stage we shot on Saturday, when it started snowing a bit harder and the wind picked up. It also got alot slicker out there... WOW!!!!....... That looks like a Muppets on Ice rendition. That mud looks slick as hell with all of the slipping and sliding. Even the RO was sliding around Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmshtr Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 I'm surprised that Production's Stage 1 results stood. Not having Mike's score recorded cost him 3rd place at least. I'm surprised the scoring program didn't pick that up. Oh well, still a great match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 I'm surprised that Production's Stage 1 results stood. Not having Mike's score recorded cost him 3rd place at least. I'm surprised the scoring program didn't pick that up. Oh well, still a great match. Unfortunately, the "find missing score sheets" feature was about worthless, as so many people just walked off the range on Saturday... the list of missing sheets was a little ridiculous... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear23 Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 The conditions were the toughest I've ever shot in. Worse than nationals in tulsa in 2008, at least there it was warm. Each boot had about 5 lbs of mud on them per stage. Kudos to squad 23, had a great time with everyone and certainly made the match go by a little faster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Hedlund Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 One other thing, I welcome feedback about the match and I don't take things personal. The match was a first class set up, no question about it. The weather was horrible, but there's nothing anyone could do about that. Props to everyone involved in putting the match together. Keep putting together outstanding matches and I'll keep showin' up - despite the weather... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JThompson Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 Check out this video to get an idea of the conditions we shot under Saturday. This was the last stage we shot on Saturday, when it started snowing a bit harder and the wind picked up. It also got alot slicker out there... Wow that mud looks terrible ! I bitch and moan about trudging through the sugar sand at our range but I'll have a new perspective on that now NaStY just nAsTy... My hat's off to all the staff on getting through an event in some of the worst conditions I've seen. You know before I took on this MD thing I was a lot quicker to complain about this or that, not so much anymore... Good job guys and I hope you catch a break with weather next year. best Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 Wow that mud looks terrible ! I bitch and moan about trudging through the sugar sand at our range but I'll have a new perspective on that now Yeah, at certain points in the day (early, and then later when the really heavy stuff started), the slick mud basically took away shoot on the move as an option (unless you count shooting while sliding uncontrollably! ). Looking back over the stage scores, I'm pretty confident it made around 100 points difference in my scores, just due to the way we had to be pretty careful on a number of stages on Saturday (not bitching, mind you - it is what it is... and it was still fun ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geezer-lock Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 Squad 18 "rocked". Picture here: http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/TI178H6LOt9fhESCSrrd-w?feat=directlink David C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spd522 Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 Squad 18 "rocked". Picture here: http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/TI178H6LOt9fhESCSrrd-w?feat=directlink David C I have to agree with this. I also agree with XRe. Having to deal with the mud and slick surfaces (and to a lesser extent, the cold), the Sat/Sun shooters were definately handicapped compared to the Friday shooters. But for as long as I have shot this (I only missed the 1st one), it seems it has always been the Friday shooters that have gotten the awful weather to deal with. The weekends always seemed to clear up. So it was only a matter of time before the tables turned. Nothing anyone can do about the weather but dress accordingly and accept it. But secretly, if there HAS to be a crappy weather day, I hope it returns to it's usual Friday time slot. Huge applause to Robert, Steve, all the ROs, and stats staff. Big hand to the great sponsors who again contributed to the table. Great match as always and were it not for the weather issue, would quite possibly have been the most fun DT match yet. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maher50cal Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 everyone keeps thanking the RO's, which is definatley deserved, but I would have to say that the people who stayed and shot on saturday, my hats off to you, you wouldn't see me out there in that cold..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JThompson Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 everyone keeps thanking the RO's, which is definatley deserved, but I would have to say that the people who stayed and shot on saturday, my hats off to you, you wouldn't see me out there in that cold..... The ROs for sure, but even more so the people behind the scenes, the ones that don't even get their hands shaken by the shooters. The setup and design crews, the stats people, the runners, the prop designers, the guys and ladies who took a week or more off work to set everything up and don't even get that handshake at the end.... Also to the MD, there is a thankless job that, at it's best, you only hear bitching here and there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M4Super90 Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 Squad 18 "rocked". Picture here: http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/TI178H6LOt9fhESCSrrd-w?feat=directlink David C Yes it did. A pleasure shooting with you guys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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