What if It's All Been a Big Fat Lie?

[PINMAN44]

Eat right, exercise, die anyway.

Moderate.

[BritinUSA]

Eat right, exercise. Maybe live longer, happier and more healthy ?

[AlamoShooter]

I am such a slut for sugar and yes I think it cool that Jake did the post.

[PINMAN44]

Haha maybe.

[SMCCORD]

Has anyone read "The Primal Blueprint" by Mark Sisson? A friend gave me the book to read, it has a lot of interesting information about diet and excercise. It really challenges what i have been told all my life. I have been loosely following the guidelines in the book, I have lost some weight, but I feel better, more focused, sleep better. Major outlook on life change. Check out his site " marks daily apple" - he does have a food pryamid.

[Robley]

I wont pretend to know much about this subject, but I did recently read something linking high glycemic index foods and obesity. That falls right in with the meats, and unprocessed foods direction of this discussion, but I did hear several references to potatoes in this discussion, and they have a very high glycemic index.

Edited May 16, 2010 by Robley

[Chris iliff]

I skimmed this thread and wanted to add that I gave up processed sugar for 6 weeks. Basically, if the ingrediants listed sugar/corn syrup, I didn't eat it. Lots of meats, veggies, fruit. I lost 20 pounds in those 6 weeks. I have never did diet foods/sodas as I avoid any artificial sweetners. So, the hardest part for me initially was the fountain cokes, man I love fountain coke. After awhile I started calling this my GOD plan, if GOD didn't make it, I didn't eat it.

[Erik D]

I skimmed this thread and wanted to add that I gave up processed sugar for 6 weeks. Basically, if the ingrediants listed sugar/corn syrup, I didn't eat it. Lots of meats, veggies, fruit. I lost 20 pounds in those 6 weeks. I have never did diet foods/sodas as I avoid any artificial sweetners. So, the hardest part for me initially was the fountain cokes, man I love fountain coke. After awhile I started calling this my GOD plan, if GOD didn't make it, I didn't eat it.

That's fantastic! I've battled eating healthy for at least 20 years now, and although I do eat healthy, portion control is critical. Americans have been conditioned to consume very large portions and to finish what's on the plate. In addition to the quote above, one needs to eat slower (my Achilles heel) and have the control to stop eating when full (my other Achilles heel.) Eating the right foods is a large part of the issue, but not the only part.

[SA Friday]

I skimmed this thread and wanted to add that I gave up processed sugar for 6 weeks. Basically, if the ingrediants listed sugar/corn syrup, I didn't eat it. Lots of meats, veggies, fruit. I lost 20 pounds in those 6 weeks. I have never did diet foods/sodas as I avoid any artificial sweetners. So, the hardest part for me initially was the fountain cokes, man I love fountain coke. After awhile I started calling this my GOD plan, if GOD didn't make it, I didn't eat it.

Food Rules by Michael Pollan

1. Eat Food

2. Don't eat anything your Great-Grandmother wouldn't recognize as food.

3. Avoid food products containing ingredients no ordinary human would keep in the pantry.

4. Avoid foods that contain HFCS

5. Avoid foods that contain some form of sugar in the first three ingredients.

6. Avoid foods that contain more than 5 ingredients

7. Avoid food products that a 3rd grader cannot pronounce.

8. Avoid food products that make health claims.

9. Avoid food products with "lite", "low-fat", or "non-fat" in their names.

10. Avoid foods that are pretending to be something that they are not (MARGARINE!!!, insert Jake's avatar here).

11. Avoid foods you see advertised on TV.

12. Shop the edges of the grocery store and stay out of the middle.

13. Eat only foods that will eventually rot.

---

20. It's not food if it arrived through the window of your car.

21. It's not food if it's called by the same name in every language.

---

27. Eat animals that have themselves eaten well.

I don't agree with all of his info, but the mass majority of them I do. Then again, I don't necessarily agree that the Atkins diet is best for everyone either. I had a horrible time keeping my cholesterol levels out of the danger zone while on it. More vegetables and less meat helps my system. Not everyone digests food the same. For example, GMOs cause my wife all kinds of problems with her lupus. We went to a GMO free diet and she came off of low grade chemo (methotrexate) within a month of the switch. I suspect what we DON'T know about nutrition at this point would fill volumes.

[Jake Di Vita]

Food Rules by Michael Pollan

1. Eat Food

2. Don't eat anything your Great-Grandmother wouldn't recognize as food.

3. Avoid food products containing ingredients no ordinary human would keep in the pantry.

4. Avoid foods that contain HFCS

5. Avoid foods that contain some form of sugar in the first three ingredients.

6. Avoid foods that contain more than 5 ingredients

7. Avoid food products that a 3rd grader cannot pronounce.

8. Avoid food products that make health claims.

9. Avoid food products with "lite", "low-fat", or "non-fat" in their names.

10. Avoid foods that are pretending to be something that they are not (MARGARINE!!!, insert Jake's avatar here).

11. Avoid foods you see advertised on TV.

12. Shop the edges of the grocery store and stay out of the middle.

13. Eat only foods that will eventually rot.

---

20. It's not food if it arrived through the window of your car.

21. It's not food if it's called by the same name in every language.

---

27. Eat animals that have themselves eaten well.

I don't agree with all of his info, but the mass majority of them I do. Then again, I don't necessarily agree that the Atkins diet is best for everyone either. I had a horrible time keeping my cholesterol levels out of the danger zone while on it. More vegetables and less meat helps my system. Not everyone digests food the same. For example, GMOs cause my wife all kinds of problems with her lupus. We went to a GMO free diet and she came off of low grade chemo (methotrexate) within a month of the switch. I suspect what we DON'T know about nutrition at this point would fill volumes.

Overall pretty good advice.

On the paleo diet (specifically with lots of meat) there tends to often be elevated LDL particles which most people are concerned with. If this is you, make sure you have the doctor run a particle density test. the small compact LDL particles can be dangerous whereas an elevated LDL count of big fluffy particles is nothing to worry about.

[geezer-lock]

Food Rules by Michael Pollan

1. Eat Food

2. Don't eat anything your Great-Grandmother wouldn't recognize as food.

3. Avoid food products containing ingredients no ordinary human would keep in the pantry.

4. Avoid foods that contain HFCS

5. Avoid foods that contain some form of sugar in the first three ingredients.

6. Avoid foods that contain more than 5 ingredients

7. Avoid food products that a 3rd grader cannot pronounce.

8. Avoid food products that make health claims.

9. Avoid food products with "lite", "low-fat", or "non-fat" in their names.

10. Avoid foods that are pretending to be something that they are not (MARGARINE!!!, insert Jake's avatar here).

11. Avoid foods you see advertised on TV.

12. Shop the edges of the grocery store and stay out of the middle.

13. Eat only foods that will eventually rot.

---

20. It's not food if it arrived through the window of your car.

21. It's not food if it's called by the same name in every language.

---

27. Eat animals that have themselves eaten well.

I don't agree with all of his info, but the mass majority of them I do. Then again, I don't necessarily agree that the Atkins diet is best for everyone either. I had a horrible time keeping my cholesterol levels out of the danger zone while on it. More vegetables and less meat helps my system. Not everyone digests food the same. For example, GMOs cause my wife all kinds of problems with her lupus. We went to a GMO free diet and she came off of low grade chemo (methotrexate) within a month of the switch. I suspect what we DON'T know about nutrition at this point would fill volumes.

Overall pretty good advice.

On the paleo diet (specifically with lots of meat) there tends to often be elevated LDL particles which most people are concerned with. If this is you, make sure you have the doctor run a particle density test. the small compact LDL particles can be dangerous whereas an elevated LDL count of big fluffy particles is nothing to worry about.

The NYT article is now eight years old, Atkins is dead of a heart attack. Aside from Pollan (I have his books)is there any additional evidence that low fat/high carb is the problem rather than the solution?

I find myself doing better weight wise now that I have gone over to buffalo (bison)for most of the red meat I eat. I just recently began the chore of taking on carbs in a meaningful way and knocking off the salt in a big way. My BP is down, I am near my goal of 199 pounds (201). I'm 65, 6'4" and would like to keep run-n-gun-n for as long as possible.

David C

Edited May 19, 2010 by geezer-lock

[XRe]

David - Taube's book "Good Calories, Bad Calories" goes through a rather large number of studies that have been done on the subject, and pulls it all together in a useful way. He has a 66 page bibliography that details a rather large amount of material on the subject, depending on how deep you want to get into it. I haven't read Pollan's stuff, yet, so I can't give you any idea of the overlap.

For the record, Atkins did not die of a heart attack - he had one, that he claimed was attributable to a chronic infection, but that's not what killed him. He was killed by a brain hemorrhage due to a head injury when he slipped on some ice, fell, and struck his head.

[SA Friday]

I haven't dwelled into this subject as much as I would like to have, but there is some information out there concerning grass fed and free range vs grain fed and stock yard animals and their nutritional impact when eaten. I know we have switched over to grass fed/free range beef and it seems to have a much less impact on my digestive tract. The fat in the beef is yellow instead of white. Some of what I've read suggests it's better for your LDL/HDL levels. We've switched to locally produced eggs from free range chickens lately too. The owner is a family friend and we've been out to his place. There isn't even a fence or door on the coop. They are legitimately free range.

So, switching to buffalo meat could be the same effect as most buffalo is grass fed. Like I said, I just haven't had the time to dig into this info as much as I would like. It does make sense though. I could see how feeding cattle with corn all the time would change the meat and result in different LDL/HDL levels in us after consumption.

[XRe]

Sean, everything I've read on it supports what you say above. The yellowish color to the fat is due to the greater level of betacaroteine stored in the fat from eating the grass. Grass fed meat will also have a better balance of n-3 to n-6 fatty acids. My wife periodically gets eggs from a guy she works with - the chickens are out in his yard all day, eating whatever bugs and stuff they come across. Good stuff!

[Barnaby]

Late to this one, but here's what I send to family and friends when they do a double take and ask me how I lost all the weight..

The How..

http://www.paleonu.com/get-started/

The Why..

http://www.paleoforlife.org/resources.php

Watch the videos 'Big Fat Lies' and 'Sugar: The Bitter Truth'

The Book..

"Good Calories, Bad Calories" by Gary Taubes

http://www.paleoforlife.org/amzn.php?asin=1400033462

All the conventional wisdom is wrong. Calories in calories out.. wrong. Whole grains.. wrong. Cardio is good .. wrong. Saturated fat is bad.. wrong.

I've lost 46 lbs in six months after 20 years of listening to 'fat bad, carbs good, now go out and run you lazy man'. I ate when hungry, didn't count or weigh anything.

Edited May 19, 2010 by Barnaby

[XRe]

Hadn't seen the paleoforlife.com site, yet, Barnaby - thanks for that link

[Barnaby]

Hadn't seen the paleoforlife.com site, yet, Barnaby - thanks for that link

No problem, perhaps I should mention how much easier it is to carry when your hips emerge from layers of fat?

Gone from a 36" to 30".

Can comfortably conceal in my 1992 32" Wranglers.

[JeffWard]

Simplify it all people...

Nutrition:

All the lean meats you want, and some fatty meats (sausages, bacon, etc)

All the veggies you want, the more the better.

All the northern fruits (apples, pears, grapes, and berries) you can eat, but limit the bananas, mangoes, watermelon, etc..

All the water you can drink.... 2-3 gallons per day.

Eat REAL fats, butter, olive oil, etc... ZERO Trans-fats

Limit sugar and flour-based foods strictly.

Reduce potato, rice, and pasta intake to times when you need carbs for energy (pre-match, pre-workout).

If it was around 1000 years ago... eat it.

If it has more than 2-3 ingredients... DON'T eat it.

If you can get a USDA-Organic version, BUY it.

If you can grow it, pick it, hook it, or shoot it yourself... It's better for you.

Exercise Priorities:

1) Rest and Recovery. Most people who work out over-train.

2) Nutrition. You can't out-train a shi__y diet.

3) Intensity. Better 20-30 minutes of ass-kicking, than 60 minutes of flogging. Interval training and free-weight circuits are KING.

4) Program design. There is NO perfect arm work-out, no 5 "great moves" for a flatter stomach, or tighter ass... There is only variety, and intensity. Muscle confusion, and... see number 3.

5) Fashion. Finally, it is vitally important that you don't mix Nike and Under Armor in the same outfit.

Jeff

[CHA-LEE]

Why is this a surprise? If you blindly accept what others tell you about whatever then you really can't be pissed when you find out what they said isn't true. As the old saying goes.... If you want something done right, you have to do it yourself. Figuring out what the best balanced diet is for YOU can only be done by YOU.

[XRe]

5) Fashion. Finally, it is vitally important that you don't mix Nike and Under Armor in the same outfit.

Truth!

Why is this a surprise? If you blindly accept what others tell you about whatever then you really can't be pissed when you find out what they said isn't true. As the old saying goes.... If you want something done right, you have to do it yourself. Figuring out what the best balanced diet is for YOU can only be done by YOU.

Um... yes and no... every human being is built with a set of systems that, barring a serious defect (which some folks do have - but they're rare), work in the same fashion... Minor changes here and there may suit personal tastes, but you can't get away from how the biochemistry actually works... (even if, as has been the case in parts of the medical world, your ego insists it doesn't work the way it works....). Jeff's nailed it down pretty simply above...

Now... if weight loss is solely what you're after, you might as well not exercise. Just change what you're stuffing in your pie hole! If you want to be fit, exercise - preferably exercise and eat, rest, and recover properly.

[Round_Gun_Shooter]

Link

Breakdown on eating habits and the BS the FDA and AHA have been feeding us for 20 years.

Several years ago I was diagnosed with "pre-Diabetes" by my doctor of 20 years. Her immediate treatment was for me to take meds. I asked about diet. She would not hear of it. she wanted meds first, diet second.

My new doctor agreed with my desire to control it with diet and exercise. I went on a low carb no sugar diet and I am still on it. Now, 4 years later, I still take no meds, i am 40 pounds lighter and I keep the weight off. I test my sugar levels daily and have lab work twice a year. I am within normal ranges.

The diet makes me feel better, makes me hurt less, and will help me live longer. Had I listened to Doc number 1 I would probably be on insulin by now.

Diet and everyday medical doctors don't mix. Hell, she was 30 pounds overweight no wonder she didn't believe in diet

[kcult]

I struggle with my weight but everyone insists I'm not fat. I feel they are just being nice.

My biggest problems were, and sometimes are, how the food was prepared and the amounts I ate. I generally eat everything on my plate and since I finish before everyone else, I'll ease back to the stove top and grab a little more of this and another piece of that. Then, because I have most likely finished that before the family has finished their meals, I'll sit like a buzzard waiting to see what they leave behind. My BP has always been "borderline", according to every nurse that's ever checked it since I was 18. I'm 41 now and it's still borderline even on meds. Not to mention my cholesterol numbers are hideous.

We have made a few changes, but I'm not sure how effective or even healthy they are. Everything we now fry (that's not deep fried) is in olive oil. We do tend to do more grilling and baking, but will still fry. We have also tried to buy more whole foods instead of processed. We eat a ton of deer meat and the wife now uses ground turkey instead of ground beef. Again, I don't know how effective or healthy the changes are, but we wanted to do something. It probably wouldn't hurt if I got my lard butt off the couch once in a while.

BTW, I'm 5'7" and 175 when I feel I should be around 155.

[XRe]

Troy, the theory is that cutting down your refined carb intake (that means things like breads, cereals, beer, etc, along with sugar) will positively affect both your BP and your cholesterol numbers. Eating more protein and less refined carbohydrate will also help with your hunger response - protein generates a strong satiety signal, whereas carbs work against it (that is, you'll feel full more quickly eating protein than you will carbs... by a long shot). See Jeff's post above for a quick reference - or here: http://www.paleonu.com/get-started/ - eat fresh veggies for most/all of your carb intake, and you'll be good to go.

I wish I liked venison That's good stuff, right there.

You're right - food prep can ruin an otherwise really healthy meal. Olive oil is better than most things to use to cook, as it's got fewer PUFAs (polyunsaturated fatty acids) than most of the other vegetable oils. If you want to use something better than that, give coconut oil a shot - coconut oil is a saturated fat, and won't oxidize under heat like oils with PUFA in them. If you can find pastured butter (that is, butter produced from cows that have been grass fed), it's also good stuff....

Exercise will help - if not overdone, it'll help with your stress (and hence, cortisol) levels, it'll help fix any insulin resistance issues you may have going on, it'll help increase your HDL level (which is generally considered to be a good thing), it should help your quality of sleep, and darn it, you'll just feel better. Jeff also gives some good basic pointers on how to approach exercise - realize, there's a lot of different and varied ways to get there, so find something that suits you and do it. I'd just advise avoiding long, slow distance type of stuff for the bulk of your exercise...

As far as size/weight go, only you can really judge where you feel comfortable - realize that you don't have to look like a male underwear model to be considered "not fat" If you can find out your body composition (numerous methods - some are accurate, some aren't, and some are "close enough"), you can know better where you actually stand. I'm 5'9", and weigh 198 this morning - but I'm 11% body fat, which is reasonably lean. According to the BMI, I'm obese, though...

[kcult]

I wish I liked venison That's good stuff, right there.

I like it so much, I take pictures of it. Here's a plate of sweet and sour deer stew with a potato dumpling. The stew contains deer heart and liver and a little wine in the sauce.

You're right - food prep can ruin an otherwise really healthy meal. Olive oil is better than most things to use to cook, as it's got fewer PUFAs (polyunsaturated fatty acids) than most of the other vegetable oils. If you want to use something better than that, give coconut oil a shot - coconut oil is a saturated fat, and won't oxidize under heat like oils with PUFA in them. If you can find pastured butter (that is, butter produced from cows that have been grass fed), it's also good stuff....

Unfortunately, 99% of the items I've seen you guys list are not available here in podunkville. I would have to ride to either Florence or Columbia, SC or Charlotte, NC to find them.

I'm 5'9", and weigh 198 this morning - but I'm 11% body fat, which is reasonably lean. According to the BMI, I'm obese, though...

I'm guessing I'm about 2/5ths body fat.

[kcult]

Well, two days in and the little changes I've made seem to have settled into my upper half well. My mind, mouth and stomach seem to be cool with it. The lower half seems to be in utter confusion. It's screaming, "What the hell's going on up there!" :lol