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40 Open


splashdown

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I have a question about .40 open guns. I assume you guys are taking a standard dia. 6" barrel and cutting it down to 5.5", or what is required, threading it and adding a cone comp then reaming the comp to .40 right? I looked at building one years ago and remember seeing a .40 barrel and comp kit but now that I have started looking again there is nothing. Much like everyone else I have lots of stuff for .40 and a limited STI in .40 and don't want to invest in dies, brass, mags and all the usual stuff.

You can buy standard (non-bull) barrels already threaded for a cone comp or you can get bull barrels threaded for a standard comp. Check out Schuemann, KKM or Bar-sto to see some of what's available. R,

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I am presently having an open 40 built by Ron Phillips...using Caspian Frame...will put CMore sight on

it as that is what I see mostly here in El Paso Texas...I want 40 as that is what I shoot in Limited althoghj my SS is a Baer 45acp...I wouldn't touch 9 or 38 as I want bang flops...seen too many shoot

overs with 9s and don;t want the reloading problems of 38 supers/

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seen too many shoot overs with 9s and don;t want the reloading problems of 38 supers/

Super is actually a very easy cartridge to load for...in some way easier than loading .40 for an Open gun once you start using lighter bullets in the .40.

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ACtually, I am not interested in reloading due to being over pressure in order to make major...and I get Georgia Arms to load 165 FMJs to make major and they gaurantee it...besides from years of competition in shotguns, I am more interested in shooting than spending a lot of time reloading and wondering....I show folks the box and they accept it...jsut like in SS or Limited...again shoot factory.

I do not want to worry about making major...not a gamer...a shooter....

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In open, it's not just about making major, but having a load that will work your comp the best. I'm new to open and going through those pains right now. I ran a couple of Silhouette loads and it was flipping the gun too much. I think I had too much gas volume and not enough pressure. Last night I tried some Power Pistol loads and it was bettter, but still not perfect. Testing loads from 8.2 to 8.5 grains, I found the 8.5 grain load was the best for me with the 140 grain Bear Creek. Cleaned the gun for the first time today and there is some lead in the comp. I can deal with that. I prefer to shoot the cheapest bullets I can get my hands on.

splash

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ACtually, I am not interested in reloading due to being over pressure in order to make major...and I get Georgia Arms to load 165 FMJs to make major and they gaurantee it...besides from years of competition in shotguns, I am more interested in shooting than spending a lot of time reloading and wondering....I show folks the box and they accept it...jsut like in SS or Limited...again shoot factory.

I do not want to worry about making major...not a gamer...a shooter....

.....................

........................

......

..........what?

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ACtually, I am not interested in reloading due to being over pressure in order to make major...and I get Georgia Arms to load 165 FMJs to make major and they gaurantee it...besides from years of competition in shotguns, I am more interested in shooting than spending a lot of time reloading and wondering....I show folks the box and they accept it...jsut like in SS or Limited...again shoot factory.

I do not want to worry about making major...not a gamer...a shooter....

At the current power factor, 38 Super/Supercomp isn't over pressure with most powders we see folks using. This has been tested many times. Atlanta Arms sells Major Super/Supercomp and it would be a rare gun that it didn't work pefectly in. In fact, a lot of the .40 Major loads out there are going to be similarly high pressure loads because we load them with heavy bullets and fast powders....heck, with some .40 Major loads a little setback and you get a kaboom.

Using something like Georgia Arms 165fmj Major in an Open gun might well prove to be a waste as that's a typical Limited gun load designed almost the opposite of what you want for an Open gun.

If you don't want to reload or experiment, don't both with Open because you're not going to get much of the benefit of an Open gun by having one built and slapping ammo in it.

I totally don't understand how someone having an open gun built that has a comp and a scope can suggest that they're a shooter and not a gamer. Clearly, you're playing the "game" by having an Open gun built. So, someone with the same basic gun in a different caliber is a gamer and you're not? Reality check time..... :wacko:

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In open, it's not just about making major, but having a load that will work your comp the best. I'm new to open and going through those pains right now. I ran a couple of Silhouette loads and it was flipping the gun too much. I think I had too much gas volume and not enough pressure. Last night I tried some Power Pistol loads and it was bettter, but still not perfect. Testing loads from 8.2 to 8.5 grains, I found the 8.5 grain load was the best for me with the 140 grain Bear Creek. Cleaned the gun for the first time today and there is some lead in the comp. I can deal with that. I prefer to shoot the cheapest bullets I can get my hands on.

splash

Do you think a jacketed bullet of similar weight might help raise the pressure and work the comp a little more?

That could be a pretty cool combo if you managed to get it just right. Lead load for practice that flips a tiny bit more and a jacketed load for matches the flips less.....kinda like practicing with heavier loads than match loads...seems easy when you shoot the match loads. I guess it would depend on if you could get them at least in the same basic ballpark so they're not totally different. R,

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Not sure about that G-man. I've got 2000 more Bear Creeks on the way right now. At the rate I shoot that will get me through the season. By then I'll have something figured out. I may try a lighter spring as well, running a 10 lb now. I would like to try some Rainier 135's for accuracy in my AET barrel, but they're 50% more expensive per 1000 than the Bear Creeks. The Noslers are even more, but they are really nice bullets.

Other issues: I'm also trying to figure out where to put my weak side thumb. It keeps getting bonked by the scope mount because I normally run that thumb high. I need to check out a friend's gun with an RHT thumb rest to see if it's in the right place for my thumb. Just looking at pics it seems that it would be too far forward. Has anyone ever had a thumb rest welded to the slide stop?

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Not sure about that G-man. I've got 2000 more Bear Creeks on the way right now. At the rate I shoot that will get me through the season. By then I'll have something figured out. I may try a lighter spring as well, running a 10 lb now. I would like to try some Rainier 135's for accuracy in my AET barrel, but they're 50% more expensive per 1000 than the Bear Creeks. The Noslers are even more, but they are really nice bullets.

Other issues: I'm also trying to figure out where to put my weak side thumb. It keeps getting bonked by the scope mount because I normally run that thumb high. I need to check out a friend's gun with an RHT thumb rest to see if it's in the right place for my thumb. Just looking at pics it seems that it would be too far forward. Has anyone ever had a thumb rest welded to the slide stop?

Being sponsored by Schuemann I've been told that plated bullets may not work very well in that AET, but that was more directed at Major 9 and Super/SC.

I have an RHT on both of my guns. I don't have particularly long thumbs so mine are as far back as possible and I easily get full purchase on them. With the Quinn mount I had to open up the horizontal part of the mount as it was getting the tip of my thumb pretty solid (annoying, but not painful). Now I find that my thumb gets on the slide. With the Shooter's Connection mount my thumb is pressing both on the RHT and the side of the mount so it's not a problem. I'm probably going to put the Barry mount I have on my Bedell and compare that with the Quinn....always something to try!

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Not sure about that G-man. I've got 2000 more Bear Creeks on the way right now. At the rate I shoot that will get me through the season. By then I'll have something figured out. I may try a lighter spring as well, running a 10 lb now. I would like to try some Rainier 135's for accuracy in my AET barrel, but they're 50% more expensive per 1000 than the Bear Creeks. The Noslers are even more, but they are really nice bullets.

Other issues: I'm also trying to figure out where to put my weak side thumb. It keeps getting bonked by the scope mount because I normally run that thumb high. I need to check out a friend's gun with an RHT thumb rest to see if it's in the right place for my thumb. Just looking at pics it seems that it would be too far forward. Has anyone ever had a thumb rest welded to the slide stop?

Being sponsored by Schuemann I've been told that plated bullets may not work very well in that AET, but that was more directed at Major 9 and Super/SC.

I have an RHT on both of my guns. I don't have particularly long thumbs so mine are as far back as possible and I easily get full purchase on them. With the Quinn mount I had to open up the horizontal part of the mount as it was getting the tip of my thumb pretty solid (annoying, but not painful). Now I find that my thumb gets on the slide. With the Shooter's Connection mount my thumb is pressing both on the RHT and the side of the mount so it's not a problem. I'm probably going to put the Barry mount I have on my Bedell and compare that with the Quinn....always something to try!

Did someone say 40 Open??? :surprise::ph34r:

Love mine and don't see any reason to change.

Flyin

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ACtually, I am not interested in reloading due to being over pressure in order to make major...and I get Georgia Arms to load 165 FMJs to make major and they gaurantee it...besides from years of competition in shotguns, I am more interested in shooting than spending a lot of time reloading and wondering....I show folks the box and they accept it...jsut like in SS or Limited...again shoot factory.

I do not want to worry about making major...not a gamer...a shooter....

Hmm. I usually take those "Gamer" cracks as a complement. Thank you :) It is a game and I often play it to win. I also believe that optimising my equipment and load IS part of the game. That attitude is guaranteed to not buy you points around competitive shooters.

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Holding to the original question I started out shooting a 40 Open in 2005, it was my first open gun. I had an Edge and didn't have the money for an entirely new gun so I had a new top end built. I had some Universal powder and just used that and still use it. I have never tried anything else. I shoot 135 rainiers and really never tried anything else except some lead to save money but there was too much leading. I'm a Master in Open and by big sticks all get 26+1, both STI and SVI with Grams pads and internals.

All that being said there it always seems to be a big deal when the 40 Open comes up. I have been shooting it 4 yrs and I can honestly say I have never been beat by another gun. Its always the shooter, not the gun. There is a point where gun, capacity and recoil can come into play but honestly how many matches are won and lost on capacity?? Few, very few. I can remember one last yr and it was in limited or maybe it was just a stage win. Whoever makes the fewest mistakes at the end of the match usually wins once you put all those top guys together.

I have never been one to work on grip, stance, loads, springs etc, etc. I had good fundamentals and just stuck with those. The benefits are very small compared the progress that can be made in other areas. What good is it to shoot a 9mm with 31+1 and run by targets, have mikes, no shoots, forget the stage plan halfway through or forget to hit a reload?? I did all those last yr several times :surprise: Would shooting a 9mm or 38 helped my finish........no way. When you get to a point where the mental game is solid and those mistakes aren't happening then its time to refine. Don't get me wrong, there is no problem with experimenting with loads, springs, grip etc but if your spending 80% of your time at the range working on that stuff you won't be as far long as you could be.

Just rambling

Flyin

Edited by Flyin40
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Well, I shot my new 40 open in a match yesterday for the first time. I just used up the 7 different loads I'd made up so far so I wouldn't have to store them, or pull them. What strange beasts these open guns are. First two stages placed targets pretty close to the shooter, so i just hosed 'em watching holes appear in the targets and never really saw the dot. This worked out OK some of the time, but it isn't right. When I did use the dot, my follow up shots were low because the gun is still jumping around too much and I didn't wait for the dot to settle. Two mikes in the black on a head shot only target, and earned an Alpha + Mike/No-Shoot on the classifier 3V.

I plan to try some Universal powder and also some lighter recoil springs. Currently using a 10, but need to try an 8 or 9.

Gotta keep working at it, but I feel like I'll be going back to limited for Area 1 in June.

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Splashdown,

A 10 pound spring is about right, any lighter and you will have worse problems with recoil. Normal for 40 open is 10-12 pounds, or a heavy Recoil Master.

Try another powder, something much slower than Universal. I use HS-6 in my 40 open loads (and 9mm major too) and love it. Any powder (7625, VV3n37, etc) in that range will be much better than Universal Clays. I say this because before I started loading, I had a friend that loaded with mostly Universal for limited, so he worked me up a load for 40 open. Its a very harsh load, and a bad powder for open!!! I don't even like it for limited anymore, I use Tightgroup for limited and production. The only thing I put Universal in now is shotgun shells, thats where it belongs! :lol:

jj

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Sounds like its not a powder issue, more that your just not used to open. You'll just have to put some rounds downrange to get used to it. You just need to find a load that works and stick with it. Try some slower powders and see how it goes. As long as your dot tracks straight up and down and doesn't leave the lens then you found your load. Universal does that for me and why I never tried any other powder, no reason too.

I run an 8lbb recoil spring, anything heavier causes problems for me.

Flyin

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ok guys

i have a 40 open upper i'm trying to have built into a gun

it has a 6 port bbl, docter, and i shoot mostly steel

what are the reccomendations of this oh so learned crowd?

i really am open to any thoughts on this issue as i have had a few gunsmiths tell me to scrap this set up and buy a 9mm!

ty in advance

greg

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ok guys

i have a 40 open upper i'm trying to have built into a gun

it has a 6 port bbl, docter, and i shoot mostly steel

what are the reccomendations of this oh so learned crowd?

i really am open to any thoughts on this issue as i have had a few gunsmiths tell me to scrap this set up and buy a 9mm!

ty in advance

greg

What parts do you have so far?? If you only have the slide you can always sell it and go with a 9mm. The 9mm will give you alot more choices in bullet weight for steel. If you already have some money invested just go with the 40. I already had the dies, mags etc from my limited gun. You might have to talk to the other guys about steel in 40. You won't be shooting major load or atleast you don't have too. Maybe the 9mm will give you better bullet selection to play around with. Then again if you have to go out and buy all new mags.......... Either way you should be good to go.

Flyin

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When did you start shooting open?

About a 2 years ago.

Was 40 your first caliber in open?

Yes

Why did you choose 40?

I had a 40 cal limited gun so I just used what I had.

What make is your gun?

Homemade

Who built it?

I did

What barrel length, comp and optic are you using?

The barrel is a Schuemann AET Hybrid with no ports. No comp or optic. Does anyone make a mount that attaches to the rail on a dust cover? Then I could put a eotech or something on it.

Do you run a big stick, and what capacity are you getting?

Yes I run a big stick when needed. I am not real sure about the capacity but I think it is around 24.

What have you settled on for a load?

4.7 gr titegroup under a 180 pill.

What's your open classification?

U

Where do you live?

In a house.

I just shoot open in multi-gun as a mag feed shotgun puts you there (why I have no idea). I have never needed to reload the pistol so far at a match so I think it is good enough for this.

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Take one old 5" top end with ill fit bull barrel.

Add one used Aimpoint, $20 Weigand mount and a $125 EGW cone compensator.

Throw in some elbow grease, a dremel, some files, barter for some lathe and mill time and yes....a HACKSAW.

Add that on top of my 6" Limited frame...

The $400 Open gun.

I had to get creative with the barrel fit. Don't own a welder, too cheap to pay for some TIG time. Came up with a dandy solution to fix over cut lower lugs.

I don't have my park tank heat source yet so I haven't refinished it yet. Use your imagination, it will be all black except optic and mount.

post-8536-1235013722_thumb.jpg

post-8536-1235013773_thumb.jpg

Edited by want2race
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