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Starting loads for 6" Limited gun


waktasz

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I just picked up my second limited gun, a 6" Caspian and will be buying my first press this week :). What are you 6" guys using for loads?

About 4 years ago I did some reloading on a friends press, but for IDPA and we weren't worried about making major. It was 4.2gr of Titegroup with a 180 zero jhp and 1.2 OAL. I don't have a chrono so I'm hoping I can get close without having to work up a load from scratch. Any suggestions?

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Your all ready on it. My match load this past year was 4.3 grs TG behind a Hornady HAP 180gr at 1.160. Gave me 169pf at the PA sectional . 4.2 grs gave me 165.0 pf at the MD/VA sectional so I bumped it up . Master Blaster coated bullets would make power factor at 4.1. all in my 6" Eagle. I load to 1.160 so it will run in all my 40's.

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4.7 TG with a 165 JHP @1.180 or 4.7 AA#2 with a 170 Precision #1.180. Putting a 180 or 200 gr bullet in a 6in is like putting regular unleaded in a corvette Z06.--------------Larry

Larry, could you explain this a little more, please? I have been running 180's through my Edge, but with the recent firearm I want to understand why the 165 is a better choice.

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With the 6in you can make major with the 165 and just a little less powder charge than you would use with a 180 in a 5in gun. The lighter bullet gets the slide speed up just a little faster, gun is just a little snappier and tracks better and the flatter trajectory lets you take a litte more advantage of the longer sight radius. I'm sure there are people shooting 180s in them that are happy, like almost everthing its a personal feel thing. I had a box of 165 zeros and loaded them with the charge we were useing with a 180(5.0 vv320) just to use them up. That was a damn nice load but I didnt think it was makeing major, when we finaly got them over the chrono the power factor was 176, we have been shooting 165s ever since. Keep in mind that all barrels are a bit diffrent, the gun I have now is about 35 fps faster than my 1st 6 in. and the gun Benny is shooting(AET) is a bit slower than mine, Merlins or Chucks. You can really lite a fire under the presion 170s if you can stand the smoke, we havent found the powder for them yet but AA#2 is close. What ever you use, chrono, that extra inch will fool you.----------Larry.

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Larry,

That is exactly the info I was looking for. I have a new 6" gun that I have been shooting my 5" load through and it feels sluggish. My current load is 5.0 grains of n320 with a 180grain zero at 1.20 OAL. With this load, my gun seems to hang in recoil although it is damn accurate. I am going to try your 165 grain load and see what results I get.

I am surprised to read that guys are making major with nearly a whole grain less powder than I am currently using with a 180 grain bullet. I may have to load some of those up as well just to check out the "feel".

May I ask what everyone is using for a recoil spring in their gun? What weight I mean. My gun has a 5" recoil system with a 12.5 pound ISMI in it. I have searched for this in the forums but can't seem to find any answers. If it would be better, I could start a new thread concerning this as well as the hanging in recoil problem.

Thanks in advance for your responses

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Larry,

That is exactly the info I was looking for. I have a new 6" gun that I have been shooting my 5" load through and it feels sluggish. My current load is 5.0 grains of n320 with a 180grain zero at 1.20 OAL. With this load, my gun seems to hang in recoil although it is damn accurate. I am going to try your 165 grain load and see what results I get.

I am surprised to read that guys are making major with nearly a whole grain less powder than I am currently using with a 180 grain bullet. I may have to load some of those up as well just to check out the "feel".

May I ask what everyone is using for a recoil spring in their gun? What weight I mean. My gun has a 5" recoil system with a 12.5 pound ISMI in it. I have searched for this in the forums but can't seem to find any answers. If it would be better, I could start a new thread concerning this as well as the hanging in recoil problem.

Thanks in advance for your responses

Pat, I think you will find that the diffrence in loads is about .3. Is the slide on your gun lightened? We are useing a 12.5 IMSI, I have changed, both up and down but keep coming back to 12.5. All of Bennys guns are useing 5in springs.----------Larry Edited by Larry White
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Hi Larry,

Yes, the slide is lightened. I have not weighed it yet however. I'll do that today.

I didn't realize the 12.5 spring was the norm for a 6" gun. I had been told you could go quite a bit lighter. In my 5" gun, I use a 11.5 variable with good success.

I'm looking forward to trying the 165 grain load. Hopefully it will make my gun track a bit better.

Thanks for the info.

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A lot of it depends on the gun. In my 6" the 200's and Clays the front sight tracks so flat and true it is amazing, the gun doesn't hardly move at all. It is Open gun flat, and not sluggish at all. Bump firing it shows splits down as low as .05 seconds. With 180's it is a little sharper and a little more sight lift. With 165's the front sight track isn't much better than a normal well done 5" gun. I don't care for the 165 recoil at all.

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Hi Howard,

Thanks for your informative post as well. Maybe I'll get some 200 grain stuff and load that up too.

Turns out my slide weighs 14.1 ounces on the digital postal scale here at work. That is of course with the sights, firing pin/stop and extractor still on the gun. Is this about right? I've seen guys float 11.5 to 12 ounce numbers. Mine is a bit heavier.

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A lot of it depends on the gun. In my 6" the 200's and Clays the front sight tracks so flat and true it is amazing, the gun doesn't hardly move at all. It is Open gun flat, and not sluggish at all. Bump firing it shows splits down as low as .05 seconds. With 180's it is a little sharper and a little more sight lift. With 165's the front sight track isn't much better than a normal well done 5" gun. I don't care for the 165 recoil at all.

I'm still tryng to find a load I like in mine. Howard, are you using cast, plated or jacketed bullets? What length and some school me more on the ins and outs of using Clays with heavy bullets. I've heard it is on the very edge pressure wise. Also, which way does it go as it gets hotter? Most of my shooting is done in 85+ degree weather.

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Hi Howard,

Thanks for your informative post as well. Maybe I'll get some 200 grain stuff and load that up too.

Turns out my slide weighs 14.1 ounces on the digital postal scale here at work. That is of course with the sights, firing pin/stop and extractor still on the gun. Is this about right? I've seen guys float 11.5 to 12 ounce numbers. Mine is a bit heavier.

That weight is about right with everything in the slide.

And what everyone has said - because I have so many 180's laying around, I tried to find a "decent" load for them. I had one load that seem promising.....until I ran it across the chrono - 162pf. Then I shot that 180 load next to a too hot 165 load with N320 (running 172pf) and the hot 165 load not only felt softer but tracked way better.

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Slide weight is OK with a bushing barrel and the right springing, if it is a bull barrel or sprung stiff I wouldn't care for it.....

So much of the gun configuration is dependent, it all has to work as a system. Anyone that tells you a 40 slide should weigh X and nothing else is someone you shouldn't listen to.

Fire, jacketed only for match use. I spend way too much money on everything else related to the match to cheap out and try to save a buck or two and have smoke obscure the targets. Clays gets faster and higher pressure with heat, but in my gun it isn't a big deal. It makes 170 well below freezing and the highest I have ever seen is 178 in 100ish degree weather. I do watch to make sure the ammo is shaded so that ambient temp is all I have to deal with, I have not tested leaving it in the sun and seeing what 130 degrees does.....

Jay, MINIMUM OAL of 1.2", 1.230" is what I load ALL of my major 40 at. Start low 3's and work up, if the gun is throated for this type of load you won't have any pressure problems. If you load short, the barrel isn't throated for long loads, or you have setback it is all over very quickly. Universal is JUST as unpredictable and violent, just a little further up the velocity scale when it happens. Universal is one of the hardest recoiling 40 powders I have ever shot too, I have 10+ pounds of it and you won't see me shooting it in a 40. I will buy something else instead.

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Hi Howard,

Mine is a bushing barrel with the 12.5 ISMI which Larry says Benny uses in all of his 6" guns.

I was actually hoping for a little lighter slide for no other reason than other people said it should be lighter than what I have if only by a couple of ounces. The whole gun weighs 37.4 ounces with an ICE magwell and feels very nice in the hand.

I'm going to try a few different loads this weekend to see if I can dial the tracking in a bit. Lots of different options here.

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Hi Pat,

My guess is that 99.99% of the people that will tell you what the slide should weigh have never shot them at half ounce intervals from stock and heavy to ridiculously light. Fewer still have played with WHERE the weight is moved in the slide and what that does to the front sight track. It is expensive, painful and just a TON of work, especially since most of the data when done is only illustrating what not to do. There is a lot of guessing going on out there and very little solid testing outside of a few guys with the willingness to spend the money, ability to do the work and sense or lack of sense to really go through all the possibilities. There are very few guys I listen to when they talk about how a gun should be configured, so just ignore the peanut gallery and shoot the hell out of that gun. If Benny built the gun you have all I can tell you is that Benny didn't get his reputation by accident.

My 6" is 36 ounces in its 'heavy' configuration that isn't heavy by any stretch, 34 in 'medium' and gets down just a tick under 32 if I want it to. I can move stationary weight, reciprocating weight, and combination's of both. I have been able to easily show people the difference in the sight track with the changes (provided they can actually call a shot and see what the front sight does) and the differences are really significant. Out of all the people that have shot it only a couple lean toward the light end. The configuration I normally shoot is not the configuration my buddy shoots to usually beat me at the matches with a gun I built for him, but his works for him and mine works for me.

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  • 2 weeks later...

great thread! keep this going, i'm learning alot. just built a 6"AET sight tracker, and this .40 stuff has me pretty confused. caspian frame, mags, gotta load short, makes the thing pretty twitchy. case head problem, ask me how i know..... i've loaded alot of .45, total no brainer compared to this .40 stuff. not making the velocity that i thought i would, but reading further back here, maybe it's the AET barrel? i've started to see that 'open gun' kinda sight tracking thing in a couple of loads. best yet is 180MG's, 4.2 american select, 1.115 OAL, giving @880fps, i bet another .1gr makes major. i'm seeing the problem is getting a load that takes advantage of the 1" more for velocity gains, but still keeps the front sight down. definitely a conundrum......

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  • 4 weeks later...

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