E3 Powder

[3GunF1Guy]

I am going to start a new thread about E3.

Here is some more data from today. I wanted to see how temperature sensitive E3 was.

If you want to see the previous data go here E3 vs N320

The first string is 9 rds, from a batch of 100, just shot at today’s temp of about 94 deg.

The second string is 15 rds that I loaded in a magazine and wrapped in a zip lock bag and buried in a bag of ice for 40 min while I drove to the range it was at least 32 deg when I unwrapped it and shot it over the crono.

String 3 is 12 rds that I loaded in a magazine and left on the dash while I set everything up, then I placed it on the radiator under the hood of my Excursion for about 15 min. It was hot enough that it was hard to hold on to, it must have been at least 120 deg.

They were all loaded with 3.9 gr of E3 in mixed brass with CCI sr primers and 185 grain Precision moly bullets.

Millennium Data Collector - 8/15/07

GROUP #1

94deg sunny

3.9 gr E3, 185gr Precision

1) 915.8 5.2

2) 932.8 22.2

3) 908.6 -2.0

4) 904.8 -5.8

5) 901.6 -9.0

6) 903.6 -7.0

7) 925.6 15.0

8) 914.8 4.2

9) 888.2 -22.4

High: 932.8

Low: 888.2

E.S.: 44.6

Ave.: 910.6

S.D.: 13.2

95%: ±10.8

GROUP #2 32 deg, 3.9 gr E3, 185gr Prec

1) 912.6 3.4

2) 911.4 2.2

3) 927.8 18.6

4) 893.4 -15.8

5) 895.2 -14.0

6) 906.0 -3.2

7) 909.8 0.6

8) 911.4 2.2

9) 923.6 14.4

10) 891.4 -17.8

11) 921.2 12.0

12) 901.4 -7.8

13) 923.2 14.0

14) 908.8 -0.4

15) 903.0 -6.2

High: 927.8

Low: 891.4

E.S.: 36.4

Ave.: 909.2

S.D.: 11.2

95%: ±6.4

GROUP #3 120 deg, 3.9 gr E3, 185gr Prec

1) 908.0 0.0

2) 912.2 4.2

3) 903.6 -4.4

4) 899.6 -8.4

5) 904.6 -3.4

6) 894.0 -14.0

7) 908.0 0.0

8) 921.6 13.6

9) 910.2 2.2

10) 912.6 4.6

11) 911.4 3.4

12) 911.2 3.2

High: 921.6

Low: 894.0

E.S.: 27.6

Ave.: 908.0

S.D.: 7.0

95%: ±4.6

After looking at the data E3 is as temperature insensitive as anyone could hope a powder to be.

Ave: 908, 909 and 910. That is almost like nothing. as far as temp is concerned.

Scott

[G-ManBart]

Scott,

Thanks for posting that....great stuff! I can't imagine a powder being less temp sensitive than that, but I was wondering how often it gets to 94F in Utah!

After seeing your other thread I picked up a pound of E3 and have told a couple of other folks to check out the thread as well. I haven't loaded anything with it yet, but will in the very near future and will post my results as soon as I do.

[Joe4d]

I'm gonna hang on to your data in my RCBS software until i get paroled from the PRHI, and can actually do some shooting and loading at home..... OAL?

[Big Bore]

I am going to start a new thread about E3.

Here is some more data from today. I wanted to see how temperature sensitive E3 was.

If you want to see the previous data go here E3 vs N320

The first string is 9 rds, from a batch of 100, just shot at today’s temp of about 94 deg.

The second string is 15 rds that I loaded in a magazine and wrapped in a zip lock bag and buried in a bag of ice for 40 min while I drove to the range it was at least 32 deg when I unwrapped it and shot it over the crono.

String 3 is 12 rds that I loaded in a magazine and left on the dash while I set everything up, then I placed it on the radiator under the hood of my Excursion for about 15 min. It was hot enough that it was hard to hold on to, it must have been at least 120 deg.

They were all loaded with 3.9 gr of E3 in mixed brass with CCI sr primers and 185 grain Precision moly bullets.

Millennium Data Collector - 8/15/07

GROUP #1

94deg sunny

3.9 gr E3, 185gr Precision

1) 915.8 5.2

2) 932.8 22.2

3) 908.6 -2.0

4) 904.8 -5.8

5) 901.6 -9.0

6) 903.6 -7.0

7) 925.6 15.0

8) 914.8 4.2

9) 888.2 -22.4

High: 932.8

Low: 888.2

E.S.: 44.6

Ave.: 910.6

S.D.: 13.2

95%: ±10.8

GROUP #2 32 deg, 3.9 gr E3, 185gr Prec

1) 912.6 3.4

2) 911.4 2.2

3) 927.8 18.6

4) 893.4 -15.8

5) 895.2 -14.0

6) 906.0 -3.2

7) 909.8 0.6

8) 911.4 2.2

9) 923.6 14.4

10) 891.4 -17.8

11) 921.2 12.0

12) 901.4 -7.8

13) 923.2 14.0

14) 908.8 -0.4

15) 903.0 -6.2

High: 927.8

Low: 891.4

E.S.: 36.4

Ave.: 909.2

S.D.: 11.2

95%: ±6.4

GROUP #3 120 deg, 3.9 gr E3, 185gr Prec

1) 908.0 0.0

2) 912.2 4.2

3) 903.6 -4.4

4) 899.6 -8.4

5) 904.6 -3.4

6) 894.0 -14.0

7) 908.0 0.0

8) 921.6 13.6

9) 910.2 2.2

10) 912.6 4.6

11) 911.4 3.4

12) 911.2 3.2

High: 921.6

Low: 894.0

E.S.: 27.6

Ave.: 908.0

S.D.: 7.0

95%: ±4.6

After looking at the data E3 is as temperature insensitive as anyone could hope a powder to be.

Ave: 908, 909 and 910. That is almost like nothing. as far as temp is concerned.

Scott

Thanks, Scott I know now why I shoot with you. You do all the research and we live the easy life.

Kurtz

[3GunF1Guy]

Thanks for posting that....great stuff! I can't imagine a powder being less temp sensitive than that, but I was wondering how often it gets to 94F in Utah!

During the summer, 94F in Utah is a real nice day. We expect 100-105 temps in August. That for SLC, In St George it is usually about 5deg less than what Las Vegas is. And then SNOW in the winter.

Scott

[newshooter]

Curious in how much smoke is produced with the black bullets i know with TG it smokes the crap out of the black bullet

[smokshwn]

OK Scott,

Now that Kurtz has given you the pat on the back, get to work and let us know how E3 will work for 9mm production loads. The first batch of data should include the 124 gr family of jacketed and black bullets.

Thanks, Craig

(Scott is the guy in our little group that actually likes to reload..and chrono....and document....thank god)

[tTito]

OK Scott,

Now that Kurtz has given you the pat on the back, get to work and let us know how E3 will work for 9mm production loads. The first batch of data should include the 124 gr family of jacketed and black bullets.

Thanks, Craig

(Scott is the guy in our little group that actually likes to reload..and chrono....and document....thank god)

Hmmmmmm. 2.0 grains of E3 under a 147? I wonder if my 650 will throw 2.0?

[3GunF1Guy]

OK Scott,

Now that Kurtz has given you the pat on the back, get to work and let us know how E3 will work for 9mm production loads. The first batch of data should include the 124 gr family of jacketed and black bullets.

Thanks, Craig

Alliant's Red Dot info is: Win WSP, 4.6gr, at 1,145. I don't know how fast you want to shoot them? But I would start at 4.1gr of E3 with a 124gr bullet.

I don't own a 9mm so someone else will have to do the work on that.

Scott

[SLM]

OK Scott,

Now that Kurtz has given you the pat on the back, get to work and let us know how E3 will work for 9mm production loads. The first batch of data should include the 124 gr family of jacketed and black bullets.

Thanks, Craig

(Scott is the guy in our little group that actually likes to reload..and chrono....and document....thank god)

I was thinking the same thing but with 147's. Looks it's up to you instead. Let us know how it goes!! :P

[smokshwn]

Alliant's Red Dot info is: Win WSP, 4.6gr, at 1,145. I don't know how fast you want to shoot them? But I would start at 4.1gr of E3 with a 124gr bullet.

I don't own a 9mm so someone else will have to do the work on that.

Scott

You can borrow one.... I know a guy

[steel1212]

Curious in how much smoke is produced with the black bullets i know with TG it smokes the crap out of the black bullet

+1

[tTito]

My local gun shop has E3 in stock for $18.99 per pound. Does that sound consistent with what you guys are seeing for price?

[Bear23]

Curious in how much smoke is produced with the black bullets i know with TG it smokes the crap out of the black bullet

+1

The precision 185's are a moly bullet.

Precision delta is a FMJ

[TY47118]

I tried E3 for the 9mm, have only tested one load, didn't have time to do more but will this weekend. This is out of a CZ SP01, E3 = 2.3, 147 precision bullet, OAL = 1.105, federal SP primers, and mixed brass. Temp was around 90 degrees... I have been using N320 and thought this shot just as good.

First string

1. 783

2. 794

3. 786

4. 817

5. 780

6. 786

7. 788

8. 798

9. 787

10. 772

Lo - 772

Hi - 817

Avg - 789

ES - 44.99

SD - 12.08

Second string

1. 803

2. 781

3. 776

4. 780

5. 783

6. 769

7. 785

8. 793

9. 790

Lo - 769

Hi - 803

Avg - 784

ES - 33.79

SD - 9.94

[steel1212]

Curious in how much smoke is produced with the black bullets i know with TG it smokes the crap out of the black bullet

+1

The precision 185's are a moly bullet.

Precision delta is a FMJ

Yeah, and we want to know how much they smoke since the OP used the Precision 185s.

[Yardbird]

My local gun shop has E3 in stock for $18.99 per pound. Does that sound consistent with what you guys are seeing for price?

That's what the can I just picked up is marked.

[dirtypool40]

this is for .40? Just making sure...

[TY47118]

I thought it was for data on E3 powder...

[SLM]

I tried E3 for the 9mm, have only tested one load, didn't have time to do more but will this weekend. This is out of a CZ SP01, E3 = 2.3, 147 precision bullet, OAL = 1.105, federal SP primers, and mixed brass. Temp was around 90 degrees... I have been using N320 and thought this shot just as good....

Wow, only 2.3 grains. I was thinking 3.0 to 3.2 at about 1.125" or so. Seems like I would have been on the hot side. Let us know how it goes. I have a pound sitting here waiting for more results!

[TY47118]

I tried E3 for the 9mm, have only tested one load, didn't have time to do more but will this weekend. This is out of a CZ SP01, E3 = 2.3, 147 precision bullet, OAL = 1.105, federal SP primers, and mixed brass. Temp was around 90 degrees... I have been using N320 and thought this shot just as good....

Wow, only 2.3 grains. I was thinking 3.0 to 3.2 at about 1.125" or so. Seems like I would have been on the hot side. Let us know how it goes. I have a pound sitting here waiting for more results!

I'm thinking for a 130 power factor it will end up around 2.7 or 2.8, since the 2.3 was only a power factor of 115... I tried loading longer but this CZ will not run 147's longer than 1.105...

[revchuck]

I tried loading longer but this CZ will not run 147's longer than 1.105...

[thread drift] It's probably due to the bullet profile. My CZs run the standard cast 147s at 1.14" with no problem. My Beretta will run the Precisions at 1.14" most of the time...I should have loaded them to 1.12". [/thread drift]

[SLM]

I tried E3 for the 9mm, have only tested one load, didn't have time to do more but will this weekend. This is out of a CZ SP01, E3 = 2.3, 147 precision bullet, OAL = 1.105, federal SP primers, and mixed brass. Temp was around 90 degrees... I have been using N320 and thought this shot just as good....

Wow, only 2.3 grains. I was thinking 3.0 to 3.2 at about 1.125" or so. Seems like I would have been on the hot side. Let us know how it goes. I have a pound sitting here waiting for more results!

I'm thinking for a 130 power factor it will end up around 2.7 or 2.8, since the 2.3 was only a power factor of 115... I tried loading longer but this CZ will not run 147's longer than 1.105...

That sucks. My pre-B CZ 85 will let me load Precision Delta full metal jacket truncated cones out to 1.200" until I run into length problems. Naturally they won't fit in the mags that long. I'm going to have to order some of the Precision (moly plated) 147's to try. They must be short nosed little buggers, huh? I have some Bear Creek 147's on order that were supposed to ship out two weeks ago to play with but they are a different profile.

[3GunF1Guy]

I have found from loading up some E3 that it likes to have the powder measure more full than more empty. It seams to throw a more consistant throw of powder.

Scott

[TY47118]

Went to the range today to chrono another load, this time my load was, E3 = 2.8, 9mm - 147 Precision Bullets, OAL = 1.105, Federal SP primers, mixed brass out of a CZ SP01. Temp was about 75 degrees. I'll probably will go to 2.7 for a load.

String 1

1. 914

2. 895

3. 895

4. 922

5. 904

6. 890

7. 907

8. 939

9. 904

10. 904

Lo - 890

Hi - 939

Avg - 907

ES - 48.79

SD - 14.52

PF - 133

String 2

1. 876

2. 902

3. 948

4. 893

5. 925

6. 904

7. 908

8. 887

9. 903

10. 918

Lo - 876

Hi - 948

Avg - 906

ES - 72.08

SD - 20.34

PF - 133

I filmed a couple of shots and it appears to be just as smokey as the N320 load I am shooting.