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Uspsa Hall Of Fame


kimel

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post-3253-1175819582.jpgThe guys in this picture should be included.

Ray Chapman, Elden Carl, Thell Reed, Jeff Cooper, Jack Weaver and probably should include John Plahn

Edited to insert smaller picture.

Edited by CenTX
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Rob Leatham

Ken Tapp

Jerry Barnhart

Todd Jarrett

Kippi Boykin

Sheila Brea (spelling)

Jethro Dionisio

Doug Koenig

Jerry Miculek

ETA: Read the rules about no active shooters.

Rich, you'd also have to cross out Doug Koenig. He's still actively shooting for Team S&W. The shooter formerly known as Kippi Boykin is Kippi Leatham, Mrs. TGO, and she still shoots too.

I thought I read somewhere that Jethro "The Jet" Dionisio was making a comeback ..... or was that short lived ? :(

Edited by CHRIS KEEN
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To be in a hall of fame you should be an ambassador of the sport. To that I would not vote for an individual that left the sport to start a rival organization. So I do not think that Bill Wilson should be included.

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"To be in a hall of fame you should be an ambassador of the sport. To that I would not vote for an individual that left the sport to start a rival organization. So I do not think that Bill Wilson should be included."

If that were the case...you'd have to exclude ALL the "founding fathers" of IPSC along with the attendees of the Columbia Conference. This game has changed over the years and is almost nothing like what it was intended to be...thus the guys that built the game have gone elsewhere.

There's more to IPSC and USPSA that what has occured since the mid '90's. ;)

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To be in a hall of fame you should be an ambassador of the sport. To that I would not vote for an individual that left the sport to start a rival organization. So I do not think that Bill Wilson should be included.

Nonsense!

A hall of fame should be a place where we can commemorate and acknowledge those who have made a significant and lasting impression on the sport.

Saying that they should not be a current shooter is simply a nod to how others are done.

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Their is a huge difference between not competing anymore and actively forming a rival organization.

I believe that the Front Sight article was an olive branch to Bill Wilson/Wison Combat that was ignored by him. He got free press from USPSA. Does WC advertise in Front Sight or sponsor USPSA/IPSC event??

He has not shot a USPSA match since 1996. Their are a lot of other IDPA and USPSA members that support and shoot both sports. He profits from IDPA by identifying the organization as not IPSC.

We are talking about an IPSC HOF not a Combat/Defensive Pistol HOF.

Edited by Sestock
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Opinions can be a great thing when it comes to issues like this one.

Regardless of your particular opinion, USPSA should SERIOUSLY visit this idea of a "Hall of fame" . This would be a great way to honor those who have come before us.

The criteria for admittance should rest on the shoulders of those who we elect into office.

If they do it right, they'll get idea from the USPSA membership and then sit down and discuss the pariculars and come up with decisions.

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"Their is a huge difference between not competing anymore and actively forming a rival organization.

I believe that the Front Sight article was an olive branch to Bill Wilson/Wison Combat that was ignored by him. He got free press from USPSA. Does WC advertise in Front Sight or sponsor USPSA/IPSC event??

He has not shot a USPSA match since 1996. Their are a lot of other IDPA and USPSA members that support and shoot both sports. He profits from IDPA by identifying the organization as not IPSC.

We are talking about an IPSC HOF not a Combat/Defensive Pistol HOF."

Here is where a little "history lesson" might be helpful.....

Just as the "hi-cap frame" craze began to take hold in USPSA/IPSC (Springfield P-9/McCormick/Para Ordnance gestation period) BW along with a number of 1911 manufacturers and gunsmiths lobbied USPSA and IPSC rather hard to "preserve" the TRADITIONAL 1911 formula as a viable option for practical shooting...to no avail. As could be expected...the "better mousetrap" took hold and the sport is now dominated by hi-cap frames and 140/170mm magazines. It isn't BW's fault that his vision of practical shooting and the developmental path the sport took couldn't "co-exist".... in fact, the overwhelming majority of practical shooters that were active in the sports development, both at the local and National level have moved on. The game isn't the same.

To deny the contributions that BW made to practical shooting because of his "falling out" with USPSA/IPSC over the direction of the sport isn't condusive to truly honoring those who helped develop the sport. At one time in this game...BW was one of the three top smiths building IPSC guns...and placing them in the hands of guys like TGO, BE, Jerry Barnhart and Bill Rogers and spent a fair amount of money sponsoring matches. Those of us around then knew the Wilson Combat name and probably owned a WC Accu-Comp gun or two. At the very least...we picked up a WC part or two off of a prize table. As for his "not sponsoring" anything USPSA anymore...why should he? Until the advent of the Provisional SS Division...nothing in his product catalog suited USPSA/IPSC shooting in the same manner as products manufactured by SV/STI/Para.

"The criteria for admittance should rest on the shoulders of those who we elect into office."

I don't place that much faith in that solution either...sorry. <_< As long as USPSA utilizes some manner of "objectivity" and honors those that gave back to the game vs. those that "towed the company line" ... a hall of fame idea would be beneficial.

Similar circumstance, Jeff Cooper is universially known as the "Founding Father of IPSC" but due to differences of opinion as to the sport's direction...he disavowed his relationship with IPSC and was openly critical of the game on numerous occasions. The above fact still does not erase his role in the creation of IPSC.

Like I said before....much more "history" to this game than what's happened in the the last 10-15 years.... ;)

Edited by Duane Thomas
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Chuck,

We are talking about a USPSA HOF here. BW left USPSA in a very vocal fashion and has actively campaigned for his personal organization as a better mousetrap than USPSA. The fact is that USPSA has tried to offer an olive branch to IDPA members by adding four new divisions since 2000. The guns that BW makes will compete in 4 of the 6 divisions currently. If BW choses not to produce .40 S&W Hi-cap guns that is a business decision on his part and not USPSA's fault. Look at Springfield, RL's limited gun is a custom shop gun. Are you telling me that BW and his master gunsmiths could not produce a limited gun in their shop??? He may have been an inspired gun smith for about 10 years of IPSC/USPSA's history, but digging your head in the sand and not evolving is his own choice. Remember he does offer a widebody frame via Bul.

PSSD has been around for over a year now and is growing. Since the BW article in Front Sight WC has not yet chosen to advertise.

Look at other greats in different sports. Pete Rose, could be described as one of the top 5 players ever in Baseball, but a choice on his part will keep him out of the HOF. Pete Rose bet on baseball, BW bet that IDPA is better than USPSA. I guess time will tell.

If and when IDPA has a HOF, Bill can vote himself in.

Maybe the Front Sight article was not an olive branch but a claculated slap in his face.

BTW, Chuck it appears that your USPSA membership has expired.

Edited by Sestock
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Once again...history.

BW did develop a Hi-Cap frame...then along came the AWB. Development stopped...as it was of little value to develop a frame only to ship it with a "blocked" magazine.

Yes, BW has taken a different approach to "practical shooting"...as have many others whom were instrumental in IPSC's creation and development. I guess it would do little good to remind you that BW was once a BOD member ?

Yup...my membership has expired. So has many others that have participated in IPSC shooting during the era of some of those persons suggested as potential honorees. Is it suggested that because this is the case, I should not have an opinion after approx. 18-20 years of membership in USPSA ?

People leave organizations for a variety of reasons, this should NEVER erase the good they did in developing the Shooting Sports in general...nor USPSA in particular. It's NOT a "popularity contest".....

"BTW, Chuck it appears that your USPSA membership has expired."

Yes it has...and will remain so for an awful long time. B)

You dislike BW...that's obvious. But the Pete Rose analogy..... :wacko:

Edited by Chuck D
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I'll nominate Chuck Hiett. While he was well known for his Red Buff shock buffs and scope mounts, he also was the best stage designer I've even known.

Edited by Bucky
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I'll throw in a couple of gunsmiths:

Derek Martin - Accuracy Speaks (one of the best rifle builders EVER!)

Charlie Prest - RPM Custom (the original 8 shot 38 Super. We miss you Charlie)

Aaron Harris - Smoking Hole Pistol Design (Some of the most beautiful parts and firearms)

Charlie Granger - Guntriks (All around good guy and last man I know to shoot 9x25!)

A shooter that was one of the best on and off the range:

Ray Echols - We miss you more than words can say.

Rich

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Personally I don't think a HOF is worth much if half the people who ever shot USPSA are in it. Before this thread is done, I'm guessing that's how many will be mentioned.

Major contributions to the sport should be the main criteria, but introducing new/improved equipment to make money doesn't qualify IMHO.

I don't care for including folks who have abandoned the sport, or badmouthed it in their rulebook, but JC and BW most certainly have to be included unless creating the sport from scratch doesn't qualify as a major contribution.

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  • 7 months later...

If we were not to include Bill Wilson based on reasons in the statements above, Brian Enos would need to be excluded also as just a few years ago in Front Sight magazine, he talked negatively about the sport and what it has become. If everyone who didn't agree with the direction of USPSA was keep out of the HOF, it would be a lonely place.

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  • 2 months later...
Personally I don't think a HOF is worth much if half the people who ever shot USPSA are in it. Before this thread is done, I'm guessing that's how many will be mentioned.

Major contributions to the sport should be the main criteria, but introducing new/improved equipment to make money doesn't qualify IMHO.

I don't care for including folks who have abandoned the sport, or badmouthed it in their rulebook, but JC and BW most certainly have to be included unless creating the sport from scratch doesn't qualify as a major contribution.

Gunsmith wing??? Just like other hall's of fame having a wing for writers and such,,,,you could honor those seperately.

Why wait till someone is retired, this is a sport/game where you can shoot till you're a heck of a lot more advanced in age than I am today. What's to stop someone from competing at a high level for say 20 or 30 years,,,,,deteriorating in performance but staying involved for another 15 or 20 years or more.....

In my opinion it should be about honoring performance and contributions,,,,and if we wait till someone is no longer associated with the sport or dead,,,,it doesn't seem right to me.

Our game isn't like football where a career is often very short,,,,,you can compete and enjoy this sport for decades....

OK,,,,now that's a can or worms,,,,, :surprise:

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