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What is it?


benos

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What a great thread. While familiar with the term Zen, after reading this I realize I lacked an understanding of Zen; still may.  Which might be part of the point?  
I do know that one of the reasons I love to shoot is that it is one of the few places I can close out the noise and be in the moment.
Thanks to all who contributed here. Awesome stuff. The monkey warrior really clicked for me.

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  • 3 weeks later...

This thread is really fascinating to me in part because it sort of confirmed what I stumbled onto years ago for wrestling. When I would get myself all fired up I was in many ways distracted by that extra emotion. 

 

Finally my senior year I started to just isolate myself and listen to music while warming up. Just went into matches super calm and suddenly started to place at tournaments, pin guys who had had my number all my varsity career. That ability to Just go into the moment without being distracted by anything was awesome. 

 

Seeing similar thoughts and feelings from others offers a really helpful perspective along with some useful tips. 

 

Thanks

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  • 1 year later...

I remember Zen.....attained Zen in the late 80's.  It means becoming so proficient with your firearm that things just flow......   .70 draws on target, sub 4 second El Pres, being able to hit pop cans in the air, shooting clays going away from you with a .45, one second reloads,  making shots that surprise even you.......it's muscle memory......2nd nature.....    Hope I can get it back!

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  • 2 weeks later...

Had two zen experiences in my life. One was in the police academy during a shooting tiebreaker between three cadets. Shooting 6 bowling pins from 10 yards from holster while timed. Everything seemed slow motion, the sights under recoil were clearly visible through the whole arc, and seemed to magically move and settle on the next pin. When I consciously realized what was happening it went away and I pulled my last shot.

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Sorry guys, I do not believe in Zen.  I am a Christian that believes in Jesus Christ.  That's as honest as I can get.

I'm sure those of you that believe in Zen are convinced you are correct and the same goes for Christian's.

However, that does not mean we cannot co-exist in the same world and be friends as well.......

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On 10/2/2001 at 12:09 AM, benos said:

SS,

Bodhidharma was the legendary 28th patriarch of Zen Buddhism (in the lineage of the Buddha). He is credited with bringing and firmly establishing Zen practice to China. (From India.) He arrived in China in approx 475 - it only took him 3 years to get there by boat!

be

Brian,

Not trying to argue with you or anyone else here.  But, if you Practice Zen, (looking up Zen, it's almost always associated with Buddhism and the word Practice),

yet do not believe in it, then how do you know you are doing it and what's the purpose?

Thanks,

Ron

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On 10/6/2001 at 10:04 AM, BamBam said:

Singlestack, look at it this way.  Have you ever been in the Zen-present moment while shooting a stage?  It would be one where you almost forgot that you were shooting.  It didn't necessarily seem fast or slow, and you almost don't remember the individual action of pulling the trigger and engaging each target... but it turned out to be your best stage ever.  

Its close to Zen when you forget about the previous stage and you also are not thinking about the upcoming stages.  When you are only shooting a single stage with single focus its close.  But when you are in the "ZONE" and seem to forget each individual action of shooting...that is the essence of Zen that you are trying to fall into.  You can't "make" it happen, but perhaps you can practice and train to "let" it happen.

The Zen stories you hear seem open-ended and incomplete, but in fact that missing ending is intentional to lead you to a greater understanding.    There is an old Zen story about a sword fighting monkey that might apply to shooting. (I'll give you the short westernized Reader's Digest version)

Long ago a man taught a monkey to fight with a sword.  He taught the monkey every skill and technique.  Eventually, the monkey became well known as a top swordsman.  Some other great swordsman heard about the monkey and challenged the monkey to fight-to-the-death to prove who was the greatest swordfighter of all.  Well - the monkey and the man fought, and for every move the man used the monkey had the correct counter.  The man tried everything he knew and STILL could not defeat the monkey.  At that time the man realized than in this fight to the death he could not overcome the sword skill of the monkey.  When he accepted that he would die, he defeated the monkey.

Do you see how this can help your shooting?

 

I have a question for BamBam, it's about this statement "At that time the man realized that in this fight to the death he could not overcome the sword skill of the Monkey.

When he accepted that he would die, he defeated the monkey".   So when I was in Viet Nam in a fire fight, if I accepted that I was going to die, then I would defeat the enemy?

Sorry, but that dog don't hunt and I am very happy that I never accepted that I was going to die and I'm also happy that my fellow soldiers did not as well?

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10 minutes ago, Sparky said:

 

I have a question for BamBam, it's about this statement "At that time the man realized that in this fight to the death he could not overcome the sword skill of the Monkey.

When he accepted that he would die, he defeated the monkey".   So when I was in Viet Nam in a fire fight, if I accepted that I was going to die, then I would defeat the enemy?

Sorry, but that dog don't hunt and I am very happy that I never accepted that I was going to die and I'm also happy that my fellow soldiers did not as well?

Bam was last here in 2011. Although a zen master may disagree 🙂

 

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33 minutes ago, Sparky said:

 

I have a question for BamBam, it's about this statement "At that time the man realized that in this fight to the death he could not overcome the sword skill of the Monkey.

When he accepted that he would die, he defeated the monkey".   So when I was in Viet Nam in a fire fight, if I accepted that I was going to die, then I would defeat the enemy?

Sorry, but that dog don't hunt and I am very happy that I never accepted that I was going to die and I'm also happy that my fellow soldiers did not as well?

You are missing the point. The man did not accept that he was going to die fighting the monkey, he accepted that he was going to die. Death is the ultimate fear, and having accepted that death is not something he could overcome, there was no longer any need to fear it, in essence, overcoming death, defeating his true enemy. Or, in western parlance, a man who has nothing to lose...

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24 minutes ago, GrumpyOne said:

You are missing the point. The man did not accept that he was going to die fighting the monkey, he accepted that he was going to die. Death is the ultimate fear, and having accepted that death is not something he could overcome, there was no longer any need to fear it, in essence, overcoming death, defeating his true enemy. Or, in western parlance, a man who has nothing to lose...

 

This is getting crazy.  All men are appointed but once to die.  Death is not the ultimate fear;  not for a Christian.......

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10 minutes ago, Sparky said:

 

No, again you missed the point

Sparky, it's obvious that you don't know what you don't know.

 

This isn't a religious thing. Stop trying to make it one. 

 

Think of it this way. Once you lose the fear, whether that fear be of death, losing, doing poorly in a match, whatever that fear may be, then you have already won. The entire story posted above was a metaphor.

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8 minutes ago, GrumpyOne said:

Sparky, it's obvious that you don't know what you don't know.

 

This isn't a religious thing. Stop trying to make it one. 

 

Think of it this way. Once you lose the fear, whether that fear be of death, losing, doing poorly in a match, whatever that fear may be, then you have already won. The entire story posted above was a metaphor.

 

Excuse me, but Buddhism is a Religion and that's where Zen comes from (India to China as quoted by Brian in 2001).

We are going to have to agree to disagree.

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8 minutes ago, Sparky said:

 

Excuse me, but Buddhism is a Religion and that's where Zen comes from (India to China as quoted by Brian in 2001).

We are going to have to agree to disagree.

Sparky, Sparky, Sparky...When did I say Buddhism was not a religion? This thread is about Zen....

 

Zen is not a religion, it is a way of thinking...

 

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1 minute ago, GrumpyOne said:

Sparky, Sparky, Sparky...When did I say Buddhism was not a religion? This thread is about Zen....

 

Zen is not a religion, it is a way of thinking...

 

Once again, we will have to agree to disagree or not.

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