Lucas Gun Oil: Regular Red vs. Extreme Duty Green?

[jkrispies]

I used up almost all of my sample Brownells Lucas Gun Oil samples, which I grab by the handfuls at matches and come in the little disposable plastic thingies, and I ordered some actual Lucas Gun Oil off of Amazon.  When the Amazon oil showed up, the oil was in a different color-- turns out there's regular (red) and "Extreme Duty" (green).  I'm curious if folks have compared the two and find a real difference between them justifying the 3-4x cost difference, or is it just marketing or nothing that matters for our purposes?  Or is one better for one purpose, and the other better in a different application, etc.?  Thanks, J

[rooster]

Read this.  

http://www.realgunreviews.com/whats-really-in-gun-cleaners-lube/

[jkrispies]

Interesting article, though I'm not sure how helpful it is with his advice to look at the Safety Data Sheet with regards to oil vs. cleaner.  Nonetheless, great catch on identifying Lucas' standard aerosol "Contact Cleaner" as being essentially the same as their "Extreme Duty" Contact Cleaner that is more expensive and simply marketed to shooters vs. mechanics.

 

I tried to compare the standard Lucas gun oil to the Extreme version using the Safety Data Sheet, and it provided no useful information that I could find.  Although, comparing the technical data sheet, I see some real data.  The Extreme version has a viscosity rating of 15 vs. the original gun oil has a viscosity rating of 8.  Now, what exactly does "15" vs. "8" mean in the real world... I don't know!  Beyond that, there's not much else of a difference, as the other data isn't statistically much different for my purposes.  Since I have samples of both the standard and Extreme versions in my garage, I'll do a comparison of the two against each other on my competition pistol to see if the viscosity difference matters, but I'm somewhat doubtful that the difference will manifest itself enough to warrant the added expense based on my shooting-- but I could be very wrong after testing.

 

Maybe somebody who is smarter with this data can find something different?  Here 'tis:

 

Lucas Gun Oil

Technical Data Sheet:  https://lucasoil.com/pdf/TDS_Gun-Oil.pdf

Safety Data Sheet:  https://lucasoil.com/pdf/SDS_Gun-Oil.pdf  

 

Lucas Extreme Duty Gun Oil

Technical Data Sheet:  https://lucasoil.com/pdf/TDS_extreme-gun-oil.pdf  

Safety Data Sheet:  https://lucasoil.com/pdf/SDS_Extreme-Gun-Oil.pdf  

[scooterj]

Even with a viscometer, it's hard to tell the difference between 8 and 15 centipoise.   

[jkrispies]

4 minutes ago, scooterj said:

Even with a viscometer, it's hard to tell the difference between 8 and 15 centipoise.   

[lefty o]

from 8 to 15, the 15 is nearly twice as thick, and it would be quite noticeable running them both thru a zahn cup. in the real world when talking guns, the difference in viscosity wont amount to much, other than the thicker one would be less likely to migrate, or flow out of where you put it. imo in above zero temps id personally choose the thicker oil every time.

[IHAVEGAS]

Got some free samples of the red at a match, tried it and liked it.

 

When I replaced it I got the green because the store did not have the red. 

 

Based upon use with my guns (cz pistols mostly), the two oils are very different, one is red whereas the other is green. 

 

I will replace the green with either red or green depending on which is cheapest. 

[jkrispies]

2 hours ago, IHAVEGAS said:

Got some free samples of the red at a match, tried it and liked it.

 

When I replaced it I got the green because the store did not have the red. 

 

Based upon use with my guns (cz pistols mostly), the two oils are very different, one is red whereas the other is green. 

 

I will replace the green with either red or green depending on which is cheapest. 

LOL.  Well, based on the price difference at brownells I can promise you that Red will always be cheapest!!!

[CHA-LEE]

I like the Green Extreme stuff because it sticks where you put it and lasts a long time. 

 

As for cost I think you need to put the overall cost vs use life into perspective. A single needle oiler bottle will last a long long time and the overall cost of a bottle is very minimal. So who cares if one is "cheaper" than another. We probably spend more on gas driving to and from a single club match verses how much any lubricant costs. When you put it in that perspective the cost difference is inconsequential.

[jkrispies]

11 minutes ago, CHA-LEE said:

I like the Green Extreme stuff because it sticks where you put it and lasts a long time. 

 

As for cost I think you need to put the overall cost vs use life into perspective. A single needle oiler bottle will last a long long time and the overall cost of a bottle is very minimal. So who cares if one is "cheaper" than another. We probably spend more on gas driving to and from a single club match verses how much any lubricant costs. When you put it in that perspective the cost difference is inconsequential.

I agree with you totally, which is really why I started the thread.   I just want some input  to ensure that my money is spent on a real advantage in going with the green vs falling prey to marketing hype.  It was something like a 4x price increase.  I'll always be willing to pay extra for quality... but that's a big enough jump that (to me) it requires more of an explanation than a different "food coloring" mixed in the batch and a prettier label.  

[jkrispies]

I did a very rudimentary test today, and I at least know for a fact that there's a significant difference between them-- more than just food coloring.

 

First off, the green Extreme oil took a noticable amount of effort to squeeze through the dripper vs. the original red gun oil.  Secondly, the red original oil has no scent to it at all (I think this is actually part of their ad literature) whereas the green Extreme has a distinct oil smell to it.

 

Regarding the real test, this morning before work I put two equal sized drops on a stainless steel flat.  I let it sit for about 10 minutes to see if one puddle would spread/flatten out more than the other-- they did not.  I then tilted the surface at a 45 degree angle to see if one would run more than the other-- and the red clearly ran more easilly than the green.  As a verification, I repeated the test.  This time I made extra sure that the two drips were as equal in size as I could manage by feel, and then I let them sit while I was at work, checking on them again about 10 hours later; my garage temperature was 95 degrees by the end of the day.  Again, neither puddle had expanded noticebly more than the other.  I titled them at a 45 degree angle for approximately 30 seconds.  At the end of that 30 seconds, the red oil traveled three times the distance as the green, approximately 1/4" vs. 3/4".  See photos below; there's an inch scale at the bottom of the flat for comparison, but I measured them with a ruler to arrive at the 1/4" vs. 3/4" measurement stated above.

 

I still want to do a side-by-side comparison in guns, but from what I'm seeing here, I'm thinking that the Extreme might be worth the extra cost.

Edited June 30, 2017 by jkrispies

[IHAVEGAS]

5 hours ago, jkrispies said:

 

I still want to do a side-by-side comparison in guns,

 

 

 

If one is better at leaving a film that stays put after a few hundred rounds that would be interesting to me (I did not observe what Cha-Lee did). 

Higher viscosity can be better, or worse. 

[CHA-LEE]

4 hours ago, IHAVEGAS said:

 

If one is better at leaving a film that stays put after a few hundred rounds that would be interesting to me (I did not observe what Cha-Lee did). 

Higher viscosity can be better, or worse. 

 

How long any oil "Stays Put" or "Lasts" is dramatically affected by how dirty the powder you are using is. For example, in .40 major I use two different powders. Winchester Super Target and Prima SV. The WST powder is at least three times dirtier than the Prima SV. This results in only being able to shoot a third as much with the Winchester powder before needing to clean or relube. I can usually only go about 1000 rounds between cleans or relubing when using the WST powder before it starts to get gummy. I can go at least 3000 rounds between cleans/lubing with the Prima SV powder.

 

Basically, if you are using a powder that is fairly dirty it won't matter what lubrication you use to improve rounds between cleaning or relubrication. Dirty burning powders will always contaminate whatever lubrication you are using faster than cleaner burning powders.

[IHAVEGAS]

1 minute ago, CHA-LEE said:

 

How long any oil "Stays Put" or "Lasts" is dramatically affected by how dirty the powder you are using is. For example, in .40 major I use two different powders. Winchester Super Target and Prima SV. The WST powder is at least three times dirtier than the Prima SV. This results in only being able to shoot a third as much with the Winchester powder before needing to clean or relube. I can usually only go about 1000 rounds between cleans or relubing when using the WST powder before it starts to get gummy. I can go at least 3000 rounds between cleans/lubing with the Prima SV powder.

 

Basically, if you are using a powder that is fairly dirty it won't matter what lubrication you use to improve rounds between cleaning or relubrication. Dirty burning powders will always contaminate whatever lubrication you are using faster than cleaner burning powders.

 

Good information. 

[davidb72]

I've been using the green one that I got as samples as well.

I like it but it may actually be too viscous for winter use when it gets really cold.

[CHA-LEE]

Just now, davidb72 said:

I've been using the green one that I got as samples as well.

I like it but it may actually be too viscous for winter use when it gets really cold.

 

Cold weather performance is one of the primary reasons why its called "Extreme Duty". I have had zero issues with it getting thick when its really cold and we have had 10 - 20 degree "High Temp of the day" matches here in Colorado. One of the local Colorado shooters did some extensive winter testing using AR's with the Extreme Duty Oil and found it to be the ONLY lube that stayed viscus enough to function in sub freezing temperatures.

[davidb72]

Just now, CHA-LEE said:

 

Cold weather performance is one of the primary reasons why its called "Extreme Duty". I have had zero issues with it getting thick when its really cold and we have had 10 - 20 degree "High Temp of the day" matches here in Colorado. One of the local Colorado shooters did some extensive winter testing using AR's with the Extreme Duty Oil and found it to be the ONLY lube that stayed viscus enough to function in sub freezing temperatures.

Maybe it was just that my 9mm 1911 was extremely dirty at the time.

Minor power factor combined with dirty gun and thick(er) oil didn't work well for me.

I started using regular old Hoppes gun oil from December - March.

[jkrispies]

32 minutes ago, davidb72 said:

I've been using the green one that I got as samples as well.

I like it but it may actually be too viscous for winter use when it gets really cold.

I live in the Mojave Desert, so... let's just say that hasn't been much of an issue for me!

[alma]

The Extreme Duty Gun Oil has tacifiers that help the oil to stay in place better. 

You can see this by putting some in between a finger and thumb and spreading apart. You will see the oil actually string out a bit as it tries to bond. It's also slightly thicker than the red. 

I think the red was originally made for hunting since it has no sent. I use the red on surfaces that I have touch (so my hands don't stink) or in other areas where a lighter oil is desired. 

For everything else I use Extreme Duty Gun Oil or Extreme Duty Gun Grease. 

[Ming the Merciless]

I suspect the Lucas Extreme gun oil is either their Semi-synthetic 2 stroke racing oil  or their Semi-synthetic 2 stroke snowmobile oil.  I have switch from running ELF HTZ-976 2 stroke oil to the Lucas snowmobile oil, mostly because I finally used up the remains of the ELF we used to run in 2 stroke dirt bikes.  The snowmobile oil was $12 for a quart and should last for several years of use.

 

https://lucasoil.com/pdf/TDS-2-Cycle-Full-Synthetic-Snowmobile.pdf

[CHA-LEE]

I can't confirm or deny that the Extreme Duty Gun Oil is a repackaged engine oil, but I highly doubt that they would be that lazy. The lubrication function and performance requirements for an internal combustion engine are vastly different than a firearm. I can't imagine that the tacky function of the Extreme Duty Gun Oil would work all that well in an engine. But I am not an engineer or the designer of the product so who knows.  

[Steve RA]

Well, it's a two stroke oil so will be cut severely by the gasoline at roughly 50/1 which would reduce the 'tackiness' considerably.

[sitw]

37 minutes ago, CHA-LEE said:

I can't confirm or deny that the Extreme Duty Gun Oil is a repackaged engine oil, but I highly doubt that they would be that lazy. The lubrication function and performance requirements for an internal combustion engine are vastly different than a firearm. I can't imagine that the tacky function of the Extreme Duty Gun Oil would work all that well in an engine. But I am not an engineer or the designer of the product so who knows.  

You would be surprised at the repackaging and laziness that goes on.  Not saying I know Lucas does so, but in other markets and other companies . . .

 

Guns don't put nearly the amount of stress on a lubricant as an engine does.  Gun stresses are shock and vibration, not continuous high rpm metal on metal sliding stress.  In a 300 round count match, about 300 rpd (revs per day) vs running a race engine between 7,000 and 12,000 rpm for up to hours at a stretch.  Any good oil basically gets the job done on a gun if you clean and lube it regularly and keep it lubed through the day.  I would say the opposite repackaging could possibly occur.  Taking oils used in other applications and repackage it as "super fantastic gun oil".  Again, not saying that is what Lucas does since I do not know for certain.

 

Mobil synthetic, or any other synthetic work great on guns, get to choose your own viscosity too.  They may be expensive when you are putting 12 quarts in a dry sump race engine application, but very cheap compared to all the "special" gun lubes.  A quart lasts a loooong time.