A tale of two safeties - happy ending or fitting woe?

[1eyedfatman]

I have 2 Tango Limited Pro 9mm's.  One new model and one curved tail model.  I installed the single sided safety on each and had to do some fitting.  On one (#1), when the safety is on in single action (hammer back), the trigger does not move and the hammer stays back when trying to fire, on the other (#2), the trigger moves like it breaks but yet the hammer stays back.

 

On #1, the underside of the stock short sear arm was filed as well as the safety.  I did well on this fitting as the safety is currently stiff which is the way I want it.

 

On #2, it has the Xtreme sear and sear housing.  I did not file underneath the short sear arm, I decided to just file on the safety.  One of you experienced guys on this board said you had done it that way.

 

Both models have the Bolo and Titan hammer.  Is #2's trigger movement an issue as long as the hammer does not drop?

[PatriotDefense]

We fit the safeties especially when folks buy the single sided, it's the less costly part. 

[SoCalShooter69]

I fit the safety as well - there is more meat there, if you go too far with your dremel. 

[1eyedfatman]

Does having the single action trigger move all the way back while not activating the hammer cause any concern or if inspected at a match, would that be a DQ?  I would not think so as long as the hammer doesn't drop, but some somebody may look at that moving trigger as a disfunctional safety.

[MikieM]

Sounds like you're right on the cusp. Were you to remove any more material from the safety your hammer would fall when the safety was thumbed off (in SA mode).

 

[johnbu]

10 hours ago, 1eyedfatman said:

Does having the single action trigger move all the way back while not activating the hammer cause any concern or if inspected at a match, would that be a DQ?  I would not think so as long as the hammer doesn't drop, but some somebody may look at that moving trigger as a disfunctional safety.

 

Honestly,  I would buy a new set of parts and start over.  A FUBAR safety is not something to let slide.  Aside from the obvious DQ risk at a major (expensive) match, the danger of a unsafe safety is no good.

[MikieM]

34 minutes ago, johnbu said:

 

Honestly,  I would buy a new set of parts and start over.  A FUBAR safety is not something to let slide.  Aside from the obvious DQ risk at a major (expensive) match, the danger of a unsafe safety is no good.

 

Agree completely. It just ain't right.

And something else, too. It is my belief that a good safety fit-up effects the quality of the SA trigger pull. Correct me if I'm wrong, John.

[MemphisMechanic]

1 hour ago, MikieM said:

 

Agree completely. It just ain't right.

And something else, too. It is my belief that a good safety fit-up effects the quality of the SA trigger pull. Correct me if I'm wrong, John.

 

I believe you're wrong. Just putting that out there in a cordial fashion.

[1eyedfatman]

What's surprised me is that the safety could impact two different actions...locking the trigger in place and dropping the hammer.  I would have thought it was all or none.  To be able to press the trigger all the way back with the safety on while the hammer stays back, seemed strange.

[johnbu]

3 hours ago, MikieM said:

 

Agree completely. It just ain't right.

And something else, too. It is my belief that a good safety fit-up effects the quality of the SA trigger pull. Correct me if I'm wrong, John.

No, not that I can think of,  the trigger motion is unaffected by the safety when it's in FIRE mode. 

 

 

34 minutes ago, 1eyedfatman said:

What's surprised me is that the safety could impact two different actions...locking the trigger in place and dropping the hammer.  I would have thought it was all or none.  To be able to press the trigger all the way back with the safety on while the hammer stays back, seemed strange.

 

The safety is supposed to stop the trigger from moving ... only.  It stops the hammer from dropping by inhibiting the motion of the trigger, so the sear is not moved by the trigger bar.  The sear does dual duty releasing the hammer and moving the firing pin block out of the way.  If the trigger is moving ... it's not "safe" and it one red whisker from a loud noise and a trip to DQ land.  Unless you have a lot of pre-travel, but with a bolo there should be near zero.

[MikieM]

Sounds good to me.

The reason I mentioned it was because when my first safety (which was miss-fit) was in the gun the SA trigger pull was a mushy 1 pound 15 ounces, or so. 

Now, after installing (correctly this time) a new safety my SA trigger pulls are a very consistent 2 pounds 4 ounces. DA is at 5 pounds 15 ounces.

Sweet!

Edited June 13, 2017 by MikieM

[1eyedfatman]

Just my luck, Patriot Defense is out of Extended Single Side Safeties!!!  Joanna, help!

[MemphisMechanic]

Tried Ben Stoeger's store?

 

 

[1eyedfatman]

4 hours ago, MemphisMechanic said:

Tried Ben Stoeger's store?

 

 

 

Checked them next, I did not see these listed on their website.

[PatriotDefense]

18 hours ago, 1eyedfatman said:

Just my luck, Patriot Defense is out of Extended Single Side Safeties!!!  Joanna, help!

We should have an EAA order coming by weeks end or beginning of next week. 

[1eyedfatman]

4 hours ago, PatriotDefense said:

We should have an EAA order coming by weeks end or beginning of next week. 

 

That warm fuzzy feeling is back!!!!

[1eyedfatman]

I have another extended safety now, but I haven't started filing on it yet because I'm not convinced its a safety issue.  Other than the trigger moving while on cocked and safety (no hammer drop), the safety feels good and keeps the hammer back.  I spent some time with the slide off trying to understand the mechanics of it while manipulating the safety and trigger.  Sometimes the trigger actually locks in.  I seem to have a better chance of making the trigger lock if I pull up on the trigger bar.  So I'm wondering if the trigger bar is riding low and giving it the freedom to move under the sear housing while the hammer is held back.

 

This gun has the Extreme sear and housing, Titan hammer and Bolo.  I feel good about the Bolo filing getting to the single action feel, but maybe I need to take a little more out of the underside corner of the Bolo so the trigger bar can ride higher.  I don't think reworking the new safety would stop that trigger/trigger bar from moving.  I had some extra flat safeties and filed one down to fit...and again the same thing, hammer stays back, but the trigger moves all the way back.

 

Anybody know someone with the answer to this?

[MemphisMechanic]

Ask @PatriotDefense

[PatriotDefense]

9 hours ago, 1eyedfatman said:

I have another extended safety now, but I haven't started filing on it yet because I'm not convinced its a safety issue.  Other than the trigger moving while on cocked and safety (no hammer drop), the safety feels good and keeps the hammer back.  I spent some time with the slide off trying to understand the mechanics of it while manipulating the safety and trigger.  Sometimes the trigger actually locks in.  I seem to have a better chance of making the trigger lock if I pull up on the trigger bar.  So I'm wondering if the trigger bar is riding low and giving it the freedom to move under the sear housing while the hammer is held back.

 

This gun has the Extreme sear and housing, Titan hammer and Bolo.  I feel good about the Bolo filing getting to the single action feel, but maybe I need to take a little more out of the underside corner of the Bolo so the trigger bar can ride higher.  I don't think reworking the new safety would stop that trigger/trigger bar from moving.  I had some extra flat safeties and filed one down to fit...and again the same thing, hammer stays back, but the trigger moves all the way back.

 

Anybody know someone with the answer to this?

Call us this afternoon to discuss what your seeing. We'll see if we can help you out.......

[johnbu]

DO what @PatriotDefense says.  But to me it sounds like the SA is not resetting and the bolo needs to be fit.  Or ... the plunger spring could be broken, weak or the plunger binding.     You didn't install a weak plunger spring or snip off a few coils> did you?

[1eyedfatman]

6 hours ago, johnbu said:

DO what @PatriotDefense says.  But to me it sounds like the SA is not resetting and the bolo needs to be fit.  Or ... the plunger spring could be broken, weak or the plunger binding.     You didn't install a weak plunger spring or snip off a few coils> did you?

 

I spoke with Joe and his comments were similar.  This is the plunger spring which should be in this gun.  Do you guys feel its a good choice or too weak?

 

TANFOGLIO TRIGGER PLUNGER SPRING 18# KIT (2) [H037-18-2]

[johnbu]

Too weak with bolo. Use a factory spring. 

[ClintMorris]

I have a extra plunger assembly lying around as backup that I'll bring to the next match for you to test out Mike

[MemphisMechanic]

Definitely return to the rate factory spring. I'm currently running one with 2 coils cut off, without issue.

 

If you have any sort of issues in DA with these guns, make sure you return to full-length factory plunger spring before grinding on any internal parts.

 

Or better yet, keep one in there to begin with.

[1eyedfatman]

I was able to fix it.  To recap, the issue was after fitting the Titan, Bolo, Xtreme sear and housing and the extended single side safety...the trigger would move in SA mode while the hammer was back and the safety was on.  The hammer would not fall, but the trigger would fully move.  Of course, when the safety is on, not only should the hammer stay held back, but the trigger should be locked.

 

It was thought my liter trigger plunger spring may have been the cause.  I ordered an Xtreme trigger plunger assembly complete with spring.  I even polished it all up before putting it in, repeat polished the plunger hole, etc.  After replacing that part, it made no difference to the trigger movement on safe.

 

That left the Bolo.  So I went after it with the dremel trying to shave off just a hair each pass.  I focused at 11 to 12 o'clock on the curve instead of the vertical foot of it.  My thinking was to allow more room for the trigger bar to raise higher where it could engage something to keep it from moving.  This was consistent with what Joe at Patriot Defense recommended.  It took a few passes but it finally worked!  The trigger now does not move when on safe in SA mode.

 

One bi product seems to be that the DA trigger lowered from 6 lbs to 5.5 lbs and the SA was around 2.5 lbs and is still around that.  I'm going to shoot it this weekend, so I'll recheck it after some rounds to see where it settles and confirm its function.