New member & 9mm powders

[hobbit99]

I want to take a minute to thank everyone who contributed information here. It takes a lot of good folks to keep a community like this running. So thanks again.!!  I have added Power Pistol, Prima V, and maybe Sport Pistol to my list to evaluate. Oh... and maybe WSF also.!!  I am also going to look at E3 because of its popularity around here. I can work with unknowns... I just wanted to start with something solid so I would have a good comparison... So 231 for sure.!

 

Boy, I gotta lot of work to do. 

[IDescribe]

Power Pistol is perhaps the most accurate pistol powder for 9mm on the market, but it is too slow-burning for 9mm minor.  If you want to shoot precision at 50 yards with 115gr bullets leaving the muzzle at over 1200 feet/sec, Power Pistol is your powder.  But for a 124gr bullet leaving your muzzle at 1070, not so much.    

FYI -- Bullseye, BE-86, and Power Pistol are the same powder, just where BE-86 and PP have some extra additives/coatings, and possibly particle dimension changes to affect burn rate and flash. Power Pistol's internal designation is BE-84.  And of course, the BE in BE-86 and BE-84 is short for BullsEye.     It's the same basic stuff at different burn rates.

 

[hobbit99]

1 hour ago, IDescribe said:

Power Pistol is perhaps the most accurate pistol powder for 9mm on the market, but it is too slow-burning for 9mm minor.  If you want to shoot precision at 50 yards with 115gr bullets leaving the muzzle at over 1200 feet/sec, Power Pistol is your powder.  But for a 124gr bullet leaving your muzzle at 1070, not so much.    

FYI -- Bullseye, BE-86, and Power Pistol are the same powder, just where BE-86 and PP have some extra additives/coatings, and possibly particle dimension changes to affect burn rate and flash. Power Pistol's internal designation is BE-84.  And of course, the BE in BE-86 and BE-84 is short for BullsEye.     It's the same basic stuff at different burn rates.

 

 

Couple of things here... First, I want to thank you for your earlier post. Lots of good information there. And for this one as well. Second, please grant me a little dispensation for my writing style. I am a retired Army guy and a retired educator. I look for and need reasoned responses. I am also OLD..!! I have been doing this for lots of years, though admittedly not 9mm on my Dillon. I tend to say what I think... no disrespect intended. If I am wrong...just tell me. I can take it.!!

 

So, I understand about the progression of Bullseye and the different naming conventions. I am not certain about the exact coatings and changes to the formulations, but I know they are all very similar and derive from the same roots. The slight modifications to affect burn rates seems like a good way to make the powder more useful across a wider spectrum.  NOW, I did not know that Power Pistol was a derivative as well.... That is new to me. Thanks for that...

 

Now about Power Pistol.... I have never loaded Power Pistol, so my response here is based on what I have learned from printed material and sources online. According to Lyman, PP is a very good choice from 115 thru 147... jacketed and lead. Probably the best powder at 115 between 5.9/1102 and 6.5/1212 jacketed (much as you indicated). At 124/125 between 5.1/979 and 5.7/1107 jacketed. At 147, 4.5/960 and 5.0/1043 jacketed. With lead... 120 gr, between 5.0/1107 and 5.6/1190 and at 147 between 4.1/939 and 4.6/1033.....

Now, if my calculations are right, I need somewhere around 1140 to 1175 at 115 gr to make minor floor with a little margin. At 124/125 gr. I need around 1050 to 1090, and at 147 gr I need around 890 to 925.....  SO, it seems on the surface that Power Pistol makes those numbers easily....???

 

In reviewing Hornady, those folks simply state "...Power Pistol produced excellent velocity and uniformity with all bullet weights and is our choice when loading for the 9mm..."

 

I wanted some additional information on loading density, so I went to Nosler (who incidentally publishes density numbers in their manual..).  It appears that 5.1 gr is at about 68% load density, 5.6 gr is about 75%, 6.1 gr is about 81%, and 6.6 gr is about 88%. So, it appears that Power Pistol loads up with good density, no compressed loads, and no critical powder position in partially filled cases.

 

Having said all of that, you have FAR more experience than I do with this powder, so there could be some other factors that I am not considering. You said it was too slow.... ??? Yet the numbers seem to indicate it is right in the middle to the top of the "power band" at each of the bullet weights...... Is there a lot of ejecta?? Unburned powder?? Dirty?? I know there are some faster powders that will perform like Clays, 700X, 231..... but PP seems to stay near the top in velocity vs. pressure at all bullet weights (at the expense of higher loading density...more powder burned..). 

 

Let me know what you think.... Thanks again!! You've given me a lot to think about.

[R1_Demon]

I'm wondering if he means it won't shoot as soft for minor and that is part of the issue?  I have heard/read Power Pistol has some snap to it and a bigger flash than most powders, but I do not have any personal experience with it. 

[GrumpyOne]

I started reloading with Power Pistol. It is a great powder, but it likes to be loaded hot. With lighter charges, it doesn't perform as well as other powders when trying to chase that PF floor. 

 

On a side note, it is flashy, it is loud. I once tried to make MJ PF in a 38super with it. By the time the primers were flattening, the gun still wouldn't cycle with an 8lb recoil spring....but the flashes were SPECTACULAR! I had the indoor range owner turn out the lights for a couple of shots...it was like camera flashes, lit up the entire range, and was very, very loud.

[Nik Habicht]

I loaded and shot somewhere north of 100,000 rounds of 9mm.  I started with AA#7, which I really consider to be too dirty to use.

 

After that, I loaded probably 40,000 rounds with either 231 or HP-38 -- I used those interchangeably, buying whatever what was in stock in 8 lb. jugs, or cheaper if both were available.  I also loaded a bit of .45, and even some .38 special with that powder, if I remember correctly.  I'd go back to it in a heartbeat, if my last powder choice disappeared.

 

Then I acquired a .40, and my powder of choice became Titegroup for both 9mm and .40.  I never noticed significant variation in thrown charges -- if my target was 3.5 gr, then my scale would read in succession something like: 3.5, 7, 10.6, 14.1, 17.6, 21.1, 24.7, 28.2, 31.7, 35.3 for an avg charge weight of 3.53 gr.  (My practice was always to change powder measure setting, dispense and dump back into the measure 6-10 charges, then dispense and weigh ten, and average the weights before calling it good.)

 

I started with 115 grain bullets, which were a little snappish, switched to 147s which let me learn how to read the sights, and call my shots, then dropped down to 124 or 125s -- which are the happy middle for me.  I don't notice a huge difference anymore between bullet weights, but at 125 the sights track the best for me.

 

No plated or lead bullets ever -- I shoot Glocks with Glock barrels.  tried plated -- abandoned it, as they just tumbled.....

[koteris]

I have not been reloading for long, but I am still using what I started with.  WSF with a 124gr round nose bullet from Bayou.  It meters well, doesn't seem very smokey to me, and my gun isn't very dirty.  As an additional benefit, a member here, Darrell, recently made available an excel file with a truly amazing amount of very detailed WSF/124 load data.  

[GringoBandito]

On 6/6/2017 at 6:04 PM, hobbit99 said:

Hi folks...

 

As I mentioned in my original intro post, I am a retired Army guy that is just now getting into competitive shooting. I am currently setting up my Dillon 650 to load 9MM. Because of my reliance on a VERY fixed income, I need to avoid a lot of indiscriminate buying and testing of components.... Here is where I am: Primers will be either Fiocchi or Winchester (because I can get them reasonably, and do not want to worry about "hard" CCI or "soft" Federal...). I am purchasing some of both for trial data.....  Bullets and cases will vary depending on what I can reasonably source. Right now I am buying some cases in 5000 lots (mixed head stamps..). Bullets will probably be Berry's or one of the other plated bullets for range practice. I plan to test and load a more "capable" jacketed bullet for match use. My intent is to try all three standard weight bullets, but will probably select 124 or 147 because of the recoil impulse.

 

So with that in mind... Here is my quandary. Powder..???  I don't want to buy (and WONT buy..) multiples of possible iterations just because they "might" work. So here is my criteria (admittedly, I am a little in the dark here...). I have selected six potential candidates to make 9mm MINOR floor. Those are: Unique; Silhouette; True Blue; Power Pistol; Win 231; and Universal. I also realize that there is a multitude of possibilities and an equal number of opinions..!!! What I would like to do is select THREE choices for testing. I am trying to avoid VhitaVuory powders because of the ridiculous pricing. I also do not favor powders that are "compressed loads" Sooo, a medium density powder that meters well (Dillon 650...) and makes the floor at a reasonable pressure. Truth told, I am also trending against Silhouette. There is a distinct lack of Silhouette data for 9mm published in manuals. However, I realize that there are some folks here who swear by it... and of course some who swear AT it as well.

 

So, if you folks could just recommend your three top choices and your reasoning. They don't have to be part of my six choices. I am open to being convinced...if you have a reasoned approach.

Here is a little Gen Info background. I am NOT a newbie to shooting (of any kind..) nor to reloading. My Dillon is 18 years old. I have more die sets than I can count. I started reloading with a single stage in 1969 for rifle calibers. My handgun loading experience is pretty light though... mostly hunting loads in big bore handguns (44 Mag. and 454 Casull..).

 

Please hold forth... You won't embarrass me or hurt my feelings.... Sorry this is so long... :-(

 

Some food for thought about being on a tight budget. In my experience, coated bullets are generally faster than plated or jacked and will require les powder for each charge. If you want to save cost, go with coated..Also, try CFE pistol..3.7 - 3.8 grains with a 147 GR bullet is a killer combination. 

On 6/6/2017 at 6:04 PM, hobbit99 said:

 

 

[MemphisMechanic]

5 hours ago, hobbit99 said:

You said it was too slow.... ??? Yet the numbers seem to indicate it is right in the middle to the top of the "power band" at each of the bullet weights...... Is there a lot of ejecta?? Unburned powder?? Dirty?? I know there are some faster powders that will perform like Clays, 700X, 231..... but PP seems to stay near the top in velocity vs. pressure at all bullet weights...

 

Take your gun and...

 

Fit it with a heavy recoil spring to soak up recoil.

Use a light Bullet.

Use a slow-burning powder to gradually get the Bullet up to speed.

 

The above, in your head, is the key to having s light shooting gun. In reality it will kick like a mule.

 

Now fit the gun with a light recoil spring and use the heaviest possible Bullet and the fastest burning powder? You'll giggle like a schoolgirl, and wonder where all the muzzle flip went.

 

Most people think entirely wrongly on what makes a gun shoot softly. Just trust me on the above. I'm very much correct.

 

Power Pistol is a slow powder which means it can get a bullet to screaming velocities without being overpressure.

 

We don't want that. We want a fast-burning powder that is approaching (but isn't at) dangerous levels right when you're shooting light USPSA loads. Because it shoots more softly.

 

Edited June 10, 2017 by MemphisMechanic

[IDescribe]

6 hours ago, hobbit99 said:

You said it was too slow.... ??? 

 

Too slow-burning.  

Grumpy and MemphisMechanic hit the main points.  I know you know that fast and slow refer to burn rates by the context of a comment you made earlier in the thread about Bullseye being quite fast. What you may not realize, which Memphis discussed, is how that impacts the recoil impulse.  The slower burning the powder, the stouter the recoil impulse at the same velocity, in part because of the extra gas mass in play when you use a slower powder that requires more powder.

To be clear, it's not that you can't use Power Pistol for 9mm minor.  It's that it's not ideal.  You absolutely could use it, I just don't think you would want to if you had all the variables on the table.  Yes, too much ejecta, unburned powder blown back into the pistol because of a late pressure seal, etc..  It performs best at the top of its load window, which is not where you would want to be in terms of power factor and recoil.  Gas mass also contributes to recoil, so slower burning powders that require more powder to reach the same velocity create more recoil.  You would expect two cartridges loaded with the same bullet to the same velocity to have very similar recoil impulses, but I've tested that side by side with a 147gr bullet and 3.4 grains of Titegroup vs 4.4gr of Silhouette -- again, same pistol, same bullet to the same average velocity -- and the difference in the recoil impulses was surprising.  I don't want to be too dramatic about it.  It's not that it was unusable.  It was just more than I expected.

If you're choosing between Powder A and Powder B, and slower Powder B is going to take 35% more powder per load in the application you're going after, recoils harder, and blows powder all over your arms and chest, just go with faster Powder A.  

Also, you mentioned compressed loads before.  Some of the flattened ball or disk-shapped powders like American Select, WST, Solo1000, and e3 -- these powders will stack up in the case sort of fluffy and high enough that the base of some bullets at some OALs are going to push them down and 'compress' them a little.  But that's not really a compressed load.  There's still lots of space between the particles.  What that does do is make a very predictable, repeatable powder column, which leads to consistent burns and precision. I'm not sure if your reasoning for avoiding compressed loads is a carry-over from reloading for a different application or not where it matters more, but in 9mm minor it's sort of a non-issue.  A bigger issue in 9mm minor is using a powder that fills up the case enough that it's noticeable if you double charge.
 

[IDescribe]

You could also compare them against each other.  Go buy a pound of Bullseye, a pound of Power Pistol, and 2,000 coated lead 124/125gr bullets, load each until your average velocity falls in between 1060 and 1080, then compare them against each other and see which one you'd rather shoot long term for 9mm minor action pistol events.  

Spoiler alert: It's going to be Bullseye.  

[IDescribe]

Also, not sure if you mentioned it already, but what pistol are you planning on shooting?

[hobbit99]

Okay.... You guys have convinced me to go with the faster powders..... 

 

Powder order going today... I am planning on trying out W231 (or HP38..), True Blue, and Sport Pistol (probably..). I may also take a look at Prima V.  Depends on how the order shapes up for weight along with primers. I already have some Bullseye so I might test some of that as well.

 

I want to thank all of you again for your kind (and sometimes eloquent.!!...) thoughtful responses. Test loads will be loaded on single stage after careful case prep to eliminate as many potential variables as possible. Dillon 650 is still waiting change kits... Will share data when it becomes available....

 

Thanks again.!!

 

If anyone has any Sport Pistol data available, I would love to see it.!!!

[hobbit99]

On 6/10/2017 at 3:04 AM, IDescribe said:

...Grumpy and MemphisMechanic hit the main points.... What you may not realize, which Memphis discussed, is how that impacts the recoil impulse.

... Yes, too much ejecta, unburned powder blown back into the pistol because of a late pressure seal, etc..  It performs best at the top of its load window, which is not where you would want to be in terms of power factor and recoil...  Gas mass also contributes to recoil, so slower burning powders that require more powder to reach the same velocity create more recoil.... I don't want to be too dramatic about it.  It's not that it was unusable.  It was just more than I expected...

If you're choosing between Powder A and Powder B, and slower Powder B is going to take 35% more powder per load in the application you're going after, recoils harder, and blows powder all over your arms and chest, just go with faster Powder A.  

...Also, you mentioned compressed loads before... I'm not sure if your reasoning for avoiding compressed loads is a carry-over from reloading for a different application or not where it matters more, but in 9mm minor it's sort of a non-issue.  A bigger issue in 9mm minor is using a powder that fills up the case enough that it's noticeable if you double charge...
 

 

Once again, thank you for taking the time. I will experiment some to find out how these powders work for me. I have taken your advice and will order faster powders for this application. I AM interested though in WHY Hornady is so in love with Power pistol...??  As far as compressed loads go... I have never had a real issue with any of my loads, but have had some interesting variations with compressed loads in rifle cases. It has to do with case capacity and loading density affecting the burn rates. The resulting inconsistencies were sometimes helped a little with the use of magnum primers... and sometimes not. So, I prefer to stay away from them when possible.

 

 

On 6/10/2017 at 3:20 AM, IDescribe said:

You could also compare them against each other.  Go buy a pound of Bullseye, a pound of Power Pistol, and 2,000 coated lead 124/125gr bullets, load each until your average velocity falls in between 1060 and 1080, then compare them against each other and see which one you'd rather shoot long term for 9mm minor action pistol events.  

Spoiler alert: It's going to be Bullseye.  

 

Well, we'll see for sure.!! I am NOT sold on Bullseye, although I have some for some .45 loads and some earlier .38 loads (both target loads..). I will probably try some just to see if my earlier perception still holds true.!!   BTW... I'm not going to load any Power Pistol initially. I may load some later though. I think I mentioned up above I am ordering three (or maybe four..) powders today. Its a good selection, I think. (You're free to disagree of course...).

 

Thanks again.!!

[hobbit99]

On 6/10/2017 at 3:57 AM, IDescribe said:

Also, not sure if you mentioned it already, but what pistol are you planning on shooting?

 

Sorry, forgot this....

 

I shoot several Glocks, but mainly use them for carry purposes and training others. For the purposes described in this thread .... USPSA -- Production.... I selected a SIG P320 RX (Full size..). There are two reasons... First, I wanted the striker fired action because I am familiar with it.... and Second, I wanted the factory mounted Romeo One optic. As an older guy, I need to face the facts about my eyesight. It really won't get any better than it is currently.!! So, I opted for the gun that was factory fitted.... I realize that it will move me into "Carry Optics" division... but such is life. I understand that SIG has a blank plate in the works, so I can remove the optic if I choose to do so..... Or so I'm told... 

[Jts2581]

On ‎6‎/‎6‎/‎2017 at 9:04 PM, hobbit99 said:

Hi folks...

 

As I mentioned in my original intro post, I am a retired Army guy that is just now getting into competitive shooting. I am currently setting up my Dillon 650 to load 9MM. Because of my reliance on a VERY fixed income, I need to avoid a lot of indiscriminate buying and testing of components.... Here is where I am: Primers will be either Fiocchi or Winchester (because I can get them reasonably, and do not want to worry about "hard" CCI or "soft" Federal...). I am purchasing some of both for trial data.....  Bullets and cases will vary depending on what I can reasonably source. Right now I am buying some cases in 5000 lots (mixed head stamps..). Bullets will probably be Berry's or one of the other plated bullets for range practice. I plan to test and load a more "capable" jacketed bullet for match use. My intent is to try all three standard weight bullets, but will probably select 124 or 147 because of the recoil impulse.

 

So with that in mind... Here is my quandary. Powder..???  I don't want to buy (and WONT buy..) multiples of possible iterations just because they "might" work. So here is my criteria (admittedly, I am a little in the dark here...). I have selected six potential candidates to make 9mm MINOR floor. Those are: Unique; Silhouette; True Blue; Power Pistol; Win 231; and Universal. I also realize that there is a multitude of possibilities and an equal number of opinions..!!! What I would like to do is select THREE choices for testing. I am trying to avoid VhitaVuory powders because of the ridiculous pricing. I also do not favor powders that are "compressed loads" Sooo, a medium density powder that meters well (Dillon 650...) and makes the floor at a reasonable pressure. Truth told, I am also trending against Silhouette. There is a distinct lack of Silhouette data for 9mm published in manuals. However, I realize that there are some folks here who swear by it... and of course some who swear AT it as well.

 

So, if you folks could just recommend your three top choices and your reasoning. They don't have to be part of my six choices. I am open to being convinced...if you have a reasoned approach.

Here is a little Gen Info background. I am NOT a newbie to shooting (of any kind..) nor to reloading. My Dillon is 18 years old. I have more die sets than I can count. I started reloading with a single stage in 1969 for rifle calibers. My handgun loading experience is pretty light though... mostly hunting loads in big bore handguns (44 Mag. and 454 Casull..).

 

Please hold forth... You won't embarrass me or hurt my feelings.... Sorry this is so long... :-(

 

Man the most popular powder around here for both 3 gun and uspsa for 9mm and 40 major is Tite Group.  The second most popular that I know of is N320.  But the n320 is def more pricey.  The good things about tite group is its cheap, readily available, and you only use around 3.5-3,7 gr for a 124gr bullet.  Also I saw you spoke of spending the money for a more accurate more expensive bullet for matches.  I spent big bucks on the better bullets for a long time. Till eventually a  buddy convinced me to try is coated lead bullets.  I was hesitant.  once he actually got me to try them however, I've been using them ever since.  Theyre way cheaper an honestly for uspsa or 3gun, The 1/2' at 50 yds you loose in grouping is really insignificant.  I recommend you at least give them a shot to help you with your budget.  a few companies to try are, SNS Casting, Bayou Bullets, or Acme bullet comp.  There are many more to try if your interested. The cool thing about SNS is if you buy them ny the case, they pay shipping.  Not a bad deal.

[MRBACKHAND]

I've been using titegroup & Xtreme 147 grrn

 

147 grrn Xtreme 

3.2 gr titegroup 

cci 500 spp 

1.155 OAL

i use that load for my pistol and pcc guns.

[thermobollocks]

One thing to remember about powder for pistol loads is for popular minor power factor stuff, you're going to get upwards of if not more than 2,000 rounds per pound of powder, and availing yourself of that keg price once you settle on something. If VV winds up being 35 bucks per pound for you, that's not even two cents per round, compared to primers being twice that, and inexpensive coated bullets being 7-8 cents a round.

 

If your goal is the minimum price per round possible irrespective of other factors, which is not necessarily the direction most competitors take, using a light-for-caliber bullet has more savings to offer.

 

All that said, I use Titegroup in 9mm and .40 because it is accurate, soft-shooting, clean-metering, and available. It simply happens to be inexpensive, which is icing on the cake. .45, I lose zero sleep on my love of N310, since on lead alone I'm already chucking dimes downrange.

 

Rifle, on the other hand, if you shoot a ton, that keg of powder doesn't go nearly as far  

[HCH]

I shoot titegroup

[hobbit99]

Hey guys....

Thought I would get back here and let you all know how things are progressing. First, .... Thanks again for all of the help... This place rocks.!!!

 

Okay, so here is how I have started... I ordered 5000 cases from Monmouth. I ordered coated bullets from Acme in three weights emphasizing 124 gr. I also ordered some 115s and 147s to test against. In addition, I ordered some jacketed bullets to use as controls mostly to verify published load data. I ordered two different primers, Winchester and Fiocchi, along with my powder order from Powder Valley. I ordered four powders to test... Win 231; Sport Pistol; True Blue; and Prima V. Initially I am going to concentrate on 231 and Prima V.  .....   Sport Pistol and True Blue are both a little slower.

 

So, some initial thoughts after receiving the orders and examining the items......

 

Acme's bullets sure are pretty.!!! Love the red color. Some of them were a little "off" though. Looked like the coating was a little thin in spots and a few "spots" and holes showing through the coating. I'll see if it affects the way they load or shoot..... if I can tell.?? I'm not certain I like the way the Fiocchi primers are packaged, flats of 150 instead of 100. Just have to get used to it if I continue to use them. Both Powder Valley and Acme do a great job .... orders processed quickly and product arrived well packaged and undamaged. Love the little wood boxes Acme uses for the bullets. Pretty unique way of packaging. Monmouth was a bit of a disappointment from the standpoint of timeliness. Took quite a bit longer to process the order and ship than I expected.... BUT the order arrived complete.

 

I started by sorting the cases I received. I guess I should have expected what I received. My initial sort of 2000 showed at least ten different headstamps some of which were not really legible. I will need to get a magnifying glass and lamp to read them. The rest of them ended up in seven main categories including R-P, FC, Speer, Win, Aguilla, PMC, Blazer Brass..... There are about 400-500 cases of the first 2000 sorted that are real oddballs. A lot of them I did not recognize at all, so I just chucked them all into a box for additional sorting. I also found a number of the cases with the step or ledge on the inside of the case sidewall that will need to be discarded. I hate throwing things away, but the consensus of opinion says that these cases should NOT be loaded. The cases are a lot heavier because of the increased thickness of the case at the base and the capacity is diminished. This would definitely cause differences in the loading density and the resulting ballistics would be enough different to cause concern (AT LEAST..!!). I would expect significant pressure differences as well.  My initial searches show that these "stepped" cases also tend to separate in the chamber when fired. So, I have some more work to do with the brass.... weighing, checking volumes, etc., etc.

 

I am starting to work up some starting loads for testing with 231 and Prima V. Everything will be done on a single stage RCBS Rockchucker. All loads will be weighed and all primers will be hand seated. Bullets will be loaded to different OALs and checked individually within each group. I own two chronos, an Oehler 35P and a Magnetospeed with the V3 rail adapter. I will use them concurrently to check and verify load velocities. As I develop the loads, I will post the results here on the forum in a new thread (probably in the Reloading section..). After the loads are tested and verified they will be moved to my 650XL for the "heavy work".

 

If there is anything I am missing, please speak up........  All comments welcome.!!

[Steve RA]

Don't throw any brass or fired primers away, save them and sell to a scrap dealer.  Also, if you don't shoot a vast amount of ammunition, as a lot of members here do, I'd suggest picking one brand of brass and use it.  I'm old also and don't shoot as much as I once did and I find that using one brand of brass makes life easier and the ammunition more accurate.  Also you can sell the brass you don't use - good brass, not scrap - for what you paid for it.

While you are in the experimentation stage you might try some rifle primers in your load development.  Following are the components I use in the calibers I load:

 

9mm - Win brass, Precision .358 125 coated , 3.2 Gr Australian Clays and Tula msr primers.

.45 -    Federal Small primer brass, 200gr LSWC by Bulletworks, 4.2 GR Aus Clays and Tula msr primers.

.223/5.56 - Lake City brass, mostly 55 Gr Hornady SP, 25.5 Gr H-335 and Tula msr primers.

 

Some of the components aren't available anymore - other than from another reloader - but there are similiar ones readily available.  My goal was to get the most accurate loads while minimizing the number of components necessary to accomplish my goal of accurate ammunition.

[MemphisMechanic]

2 hours ago, Steve RA said:

 Also, if you don't shoot a vast amount of ammunition, as a lot of members here do, I'd suggest picking one brand of brass and use it.  I'm old also and don't shoot as much as I once did and I find that using one brand of brass makes life easier and the ammunition more accurate. 

 

Disclaimer here: most of the USPSA and IDPA guys I know pretty much don't look at headstamps. I cull stepped brass at the Bullet-seating station on my progressive (yes this means I just wasted a primer) and otherwise just rattle it all through my 650 at 800 rounds an hour.

 

It's just not worth my time to sit for half an hour and sort a bucket of brass a few times a month.

 

I'd rather pitch a crimped case when it arrives at the priming station (and yes occasionally crush one before I feel it) than sit there shorting headstamps.

 

If I go to Nationals someday, I'll settle on one or two brands of brass and run precisely seated Winchester primers only. But otherwise? You'll be amazed how accurate and reliable ammo can be on match day with a wide mix of brass, internet lore nonwithstanding.

 

Edited July 5, 2017 by MemphisMechanic

[hobbit99]

10 hours ago, Steve RA said:

Don't throw any brass or fired primers away, save them and sell to a scrap dealer.  Also, if you don't shoot a vast amount of ammunition, as a lot of members here do, I'd suggest picking one brand of brass and use it.  I'm old also and don't shoot as much as I once did and I find that using one brand of brass makes life easier and the ammunition more accurate.  Also you can sell the brass you don't use - good brass, not scrap - for what you paid for it.

While you are in the experimentation stage you might try some rifle primers in your load development.  Following are the components I use in the calibers I load:

 

9mm - Win brass, Precision .358 125 coated , 3.2 Gr Australian Clays and Tula msr primers.

.45 -    Federal Small primer brass, 200gr LSWC by Bulletworks, 4.2 GR Aus Clays and Tula msr primers.

.223/5.56 - Lake City brass, mostly 55 Gr Hornady SP, 25.5 Gr H-335 and Tula msr primers.

 

Some of the components aren't available anymore - other than from another reloader - but there are similiar ones readily available.  My goal was to get the most accurate loads while minimizing the number of components necessary to accomplish my goal of accurate ammunition.

 

I understand... While my age is a matter of fact, my perception is shaped by lots of things including a lot of previous experience.. I don't arbitrarily throw much of anything away. If it can be recycled, I do it. Like yourself, I don't shoot as much as I used to, although my "plans" do include quite a bit more over the next few months and then, who knows.?? 

 

Don't think one brand of brass is doable, at least right now. I NEED brass now, so I had to buy what I could get. That means a very eclectic mix of headstamps. As long as they weigh close to the same they should have about the same volume/capacity and therefore about the same internal ballistics. How they last will of course vary I'm sure. The only cases I am discarding for certain are the "stepped" ones. They will go to a brass recycler when the time is right.

 

I don't have any plans to try SR primers at this time. Maybe if I were loading hot for major..?? Anyway, for now I will stick to Winchester and Fiocchi SP primers... at least through this initial testing phase. Your goal sounds a lot like mine. But, this is my first experience with loading 9mm, so I will stay close to "the book" initially except for the Prima V loads which will require a little xtra work.....

 

Thanks for the comments..!

[hobbit99]

9 hours ago, MemphisMechanic said:

 

Disclaimer here: most of the USPSA and IDPA guys I know pretty much don't look at headstamps. I cull stepped brass at the Bullet-seating station on my progressive (yes this means I just wasted a primer) and otherwise just rattle it all through my 650 at 800 rounds an hour.

 

It's just not worth my time to sit for half an hour and sort a bucket of brass a few times a month.

 

I'd rather pitch a crimped case when it arrives at the priming station (and yes occasionally crush one before I feel it) than sit there shorting headstamps.

 

If I go to Nationals someday, I'll settle on one or two brands of brass and run precisely seated Winchester primers only. But otherwise? You'll be amazed how accurate and reliable ammo can be on match day with a wide mix of brass, internet lore nonwithstanding.

 

 

Gotcha.... So, let me ask this. In your INITIAL load development do you not sort brass by weight and use all one kind of primer from the same lot.?? It would seem that any inconsistency you could eliminate would be beneficial. Once the load was established, making small substitutions can be easily allowed. It is just the initial load development that I take the time to sort a few hundred cases. Maybe it's the anal retentive part of me... Old habits etc., etc.

 

I agree about the lack of necessity for general sorting when you are loading thousands of rounds for practice. I am the same way. I know that the load will perform within limits in any number of different cases. .....  Internet lore..?? Oh yeah, I know about that too.!!

 

Thanks again..

[MemphisMechanic]

I am simply not that OCD about my ammo. If it's in the 133-135 power factor window consistently, and it holds a 1.5-2" group at 25yds (my Tanfo is that accurate) I don't much care about minimizing OAL variation or the smallest possible standard deviation.

 

I need it to be accurate enough to hit the upper A at 10 yards if I sent it there, and to drop steel and pass chrono.

 

Thats the forest. If you're focused on anything else, your spending too much time looking at individual trees. That is my opinion.

 

Many other guys love the process of handcrafting their ammo, much like they enjoy tweaking & tuning guns. To me it's just... food for the tool I use in matches.

 

Edited July 5, 2017 by MemphisMechanic