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SS, CO and USPSA


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Folks,

 

Looking to start shooting USPSA. Have a nice S&W 1911 9mm Performance Center pistol with Dawson sights (thus restricted to SS and/or Limit 10). Given my aging eye sight, I am considering going and place a Burris Fastfire 3 on it, and trying the CO division. After reading this forum and the rule book, some concerns have arisen: 

 

1. I just noted that they changed the magazine rule are not limiting magazine capacity - hence I believe I would be at a disadvantage (extra on course reloads) over the high capacity 9mm (CZ 75, etc.).   True?

2. Some one noted that an optic sight mounted behind the ejection port was a disadvantage over one in front of the ejection port! HUH? Why would that be?

3. Any thoughts on the options for us old folk with failing eye sight?

4. Also have an IPDA Enhanced M&P Pro 9L Performance Center pistol - would I be better to make that a CO class pistol (mill slide or doe tail mount) and live with the long trigger pull?

 

Thoughts, Comments, Concerns, Advise MORE than welcome and greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks

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Thanks moto.. sorry to waste folks time..

 

Rules state: " — A handgun may be approved specifically for Carry Optics division provided that the model of the pistol used is an approved Production Division model AND meets Carry Optics criteria. Any pistol that is not on the approved Production list, but meets Carry Optics criteria must submit a Manufacturers Declaration Form to DNROI stating that a minimum of 500 complete handguns have been manufactured and are available to the general public"

 

 

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As moto said, your M&P Pro would be your only choice between the two.  And regarding your #2 question above, per App D7 #13, your optical sight must be mounted between the ejection port and rear of the slide.

Edited by JAFO
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My eyes are 69.5 years ols.  Given a choice between shooting USPSA SS Minor and CO, I'd go CO.  The M&P Pro is an excellent platform.  You can get a superb trigger pull put on it, and there are lots of goodies you can add.  You can even turn it into a first first Open pistol if you want.

 

 

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Thanks zzt.

 

I am running into the same issue (eyes) and wanted to try the CO class. I have an M&P ESP for IPDA .. and was looking to put some glass on it.. BUT.. some rules are in the way (damn administrators {smiles}).  I will have to remove the Apex FFT trigger and kit (forcing me to buy the competition trigger kit enhancement kit and use the stock trigger) and pull the mag well off. Other wise, if I use optics with the ESP setup, I would have to be in the Open class {shudders} playing with the racers.

 

Another question, regarding barrels. The M&P 9 4.5" can come with a threaded barrel, yet the 5" Pro Series and 9L series does not. Does that inhibit the use of a after market 5" threaded barrel in the 9 Pro and 9L for CO?

 

Thanks!

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Unfortunately, you cannot use a threaded barrel in the Pro unless there is a Production-approved Pro model that comes with one from the factory.

 

App D4, 21.3 (emphasis mine) -

BARRELS: Current rules remain in effect - you may replace the barrel with an OFM or aftermarket barrel which is of the same length, contour and caliber as the original barrel for that model of gun.

Edited by JAFO
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The Pro is the one you want.  It comes with better internals, including the sear.  You do not have to change out the sear to get an outstanding trigger pull.  If you are going to go Open you want the special KKM 5" barrel they make for Carver Custom.  It is a tad shorter than a "standard" 5.4" threaded, and is designed to minimize the gap between the slide and the comp.  You want the KKM barrel anyway, because it is a lot more accurate, and it is a 1:18 twist.  That is better than 1:16 for 124gr and 115gr bullets.

 

You can dovetail mount an optic, or you can buy the CORE model and mount the optic directly to the slide.  That would be my preference.  I prefer to have the dot as low over the bore as possible.

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Thanks zzt. 

 

Given that I already have the 9 Pro, and it already has the Apex FFT in it,  and Vortex Venom & slide/dove tail mount is on the way .. my choices really seemed to be only 2, opps 3.. maybe 4

1. Do nothing, put the reflex sight on and shoot cans

2. Concede, get a KKM barrel and comp and try to play with the fast big boys

3. Remove the Apex FFT and FFT specific parts, remove mag well, get an Apex competition kit for the standard trigger, and shoot CO.  

4. Sell the Venom and pout. 

 

...and petition the USPSA ruling body for a Limited CO class.. more complexity... {sigh} Life was much more simple as a kid, .22 short/.22 LR, rifle, bent sights, sand pit and tin cans ... 

 

 

Edited by MrDesertBrat
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option 5, buy a new gun that fits the competition criteria
 
owning more guns is not a bad thing.


That's what I did. Sig P320rx (among other options) is basically made for the division. Add some 140 base pads and start blasting.
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Well, if I were going to buy a new gun for CO it would definitely be something like a CZ SP-01 or an accurized version.  It's DA/SA, with a safety stop on the hammer and a manual safety.  You can safely lower the hammer for Production or CO, but also use it cocked and locked for Steel Challenge or Limited 10.

 

I'd leave the dot on and us it as is for CO, Steel Challenge, outlaw matches and plate and pin matches.  The only thing I shoot that it would not be suitable for is 2x4 matches.  There you definitely want a 45, because it cuts the wood faster.  If you are shooting 9mm in a 2x4 match, you will definitely lose

 

I own lots of pistols and shoot them all.  I have parts on the way to build two more.  I will say that I shoot best when I use the same pistol for multiple matches.  The reason is I don't play find the dot.  I have dots mounted on scalloped slides, in dovetail mounts and on frame mounts.  The different dot heights cause problem with your draw when you change pistols often.  If your muscle memory is set for one configuration and you substitute a lower or higher mounted dot, you are off and have to make an adjustment.

 

I'm old and slow.  If I'm going to change dot heights I have to dry fire practice for a week before the dot comes up superimposed on what I'm looking at.

Edited by zzt
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I have four 8 MOA Burris FF3s, three 6 MOA C-More RTSv4s, and one 2.5 MOA Deltapoint Pro.   Of the three I prefer the optics of the RTS2, with the DP Pro a very close second.  The RTS2 has a larger glass and I like the contrast.  It is definitely brighter and more contrasty than the FF3.  I like the ergonomics of the DP Pro the best, and it is the brightest of the three.  The dot appears much larger than 2.5 MOA.  It looks closer to 6.

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