Looking to demo a 550, 650, and 1050 in the Hampton Roads VA area

[Bronco9588]

I am trying to make an informed decision before I drop lots of money on a dillon. Anybody in the Norfolk/Hampton Roads area? I am willing to drive a couple hours and compensate with liquid bread. I really want to try the feel of a 1050.

Edited June 5, 2017 by Bronco9588

[Darqusoull13]

After feeling both personally, drink the bread and order the 1050 fast before it wears off. The prime on the down stroke is worth every penny for me as it took half the "forceful pressing" off my arm not priming on the upstroke of a 650. If you do by chance find someone with a 1050 and 650 say in 9mm, also have them toss in a crimped primer on both machines . I simplified my loading to spend more time shooting with my 1050s. 

[Bronco9588]

I have a hard time justifying the capital. The cost difference is impressive. I don't care about warranty differences. I am looking to do high volume 9mm and 223 rem. With hornady bullets, I am estimating only a 10 cent savings per round. This will take me years to pay off. I will get a full toolhead setup for both calibers. I also want to get into wildcating military cartridges. Looking at blackout and 260 rem.

[ultimase]

High volume of one caliber is what the 1050 is for, it can do high volume of multiple calibers but it'll ultimately be very expensive entry. If cost is no limit, then ideally one 1050 setup for small primer and one setup for large primer would simply caliber changes, but again a very expensive proposition. 

[Bronco9588]

How is the switch between large and small primer pockets? Also need a new seating rod?

[Gooldylocks]

My question is why would you be loading with hornady bullets vs something much cheaper? 

 

I have a 650, and it is nice. Caliber changes are a breeze. But if I had the money, I would have a 1050, no question. 

[ultimase]

11 hours ago, Bronco9588 said:

How is the switch between large and small primer pockets? Also need a new seating rod?

 

It's involved. You have to take the press down quite a bit to swap the primer system. But realistically swapping conversion plates is only a few more steps less. Though the primer system does take a bit of adjusting to get perfect.

 

The 1050 isn't as simple or cheap to swap calibers, but it gains volume over other presses. And priming on the downstroke.

[Bronco9588]

14 hours ago, Gooldylocks said:

My question is why would you be loading with hornady bullets vs something much cheaper? 

 

I have a 650, and it is nice. Caliber changes are a breeze. But if I had the money, I would have a 1050, no question. 

 

223 hornady 55grns run 7 cents a piece and the 115 HAP 9mm bullets are 10 cents. Do you know something I don't? I like the idea of PC lead, but I want to stick to jacketed pricing.

[Bronco9588]

3 hours ago, ultimase said:

 

It's involved. You have to take the press down quite a bit to swap the primer system. But realistically swapping conversion plates is only a few more steps less. Though the primer system does take a bit of adjusting to get perfect.

 

The 1050 isn't as simple or cheap to swap calibers, but it gains volume over other presses. And priming on the downstroke.

 Priming and swaging are big for me.

[Gooldylocks]

30 minutes ago, Bronco9588 said:

 

223 hornady 55grns run 7 cents a piece and the 115 HAP 9mm bullets are 10 cents. Do you know something I don't? I like the idea of PC lead, but I want to stick to jacketed pricing.

 

There are many cheaper choices out there in high quality projectiles. Look at the case pricing. At about 8.7 cents, they are 20% cheaper than hornady (cheapest I have ever seen on HAP is like 10.9) http://www.evergladesammo.com/bullets/handgun-bullets/new-9mm-115gr-jhp.html

 

The Hornady rifle bullets are reasonably priced, but your pistol bullets could present significant savings. 

[mikeinctown]

If you are doing high volume of two calibers and both those calibers are known to need primer pockets swaged, then go with the 1050. You'll probably do one toolhead with the trimmer to do case prep on the rifle stuff and other toolheads to do the 9 and rifle loading. On the 650 I am limited in speed because of the need to push the arm forward after each stroke to insert the case into the shellplate and insert the primer. For this reason alone the 1050 is better.

 

Yes, there is a 100% difference in initial cost but time is money and being able to do a lot more rounds in less time helps put a bigger dent into the ammo savings. For me, the savings is about $4 a box for 9mm loading myself and over $10 a box loading .45ACP. For high dollar stuff like .45 Colt or 38 Super, the savings adds up really quick as my LGS is near $40 a box on .45 Colt.

 

If I had the funds to go from the 650 to the 1050 I'd jump at the chance.

[gixxerjunky]

I believe the 650 is the way to go.

If your doing tons of bulk reloading with one caliber then 1050 would be awesome but a lot is involved.

I have a 650 set up for 9mm and .223. I usually load in a couple hundred round sessions.

I swap back and forth all the time without issue but I have invested in complete tool head set ups where it's easy.

I also set a brass prep tool head up for rifle and run through a lot of brass at once.


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[Want2BS8ed]

If your doing tons of bulk reloading with one caliber then 1050 would be awesome but a lot is involved.

Not really (especially if you are loading 9mm and 223 because they both use small primers). More expensive? Definitely, but once setup a head/shell plate swap is a snap and you don't have to make any further adjustments.

Setting up a new caliber takes two additional steps - setting the swager and primer seating depth. Features not available on a 650 and once set, they are set.

Primer seating on the down stroke is a beautiful thing, but what no one has mentioned is the ability to set primer seating depth. If you want .002" below flush you can set it and get consistent results rather than relying on feel - all from above, so once done the setting stays with the head. Not a big deal for volume pistol loading, but important for rifle.

Another difference I found I prefer on the 1050, the dies move up and down rather than the shell plate. The shell plate still rotates, but there is a lot less movement for powder to spill, bullets to topple or components to become misaligned.

In the end the 1050 not only gets you more volume in a shorter amount of time, but it provides more consistent reloads... that alone makes the cost worthwhile to me.

M



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[Bronco9588]

Is it worth going used on a 1050?

[pmiya]

I use a Super 1050 for a variety of calibers: 223, 308, 9mm, 40 S&W, 10mm, 45 ACP, 44 Spl/Mag.  I only have one tool head and it takes me about 45 minutes to swap from one caliber/primer size to another.  It's a little quicker if using the same primer size.  I use a lot of surplus 308, 223 and 9mm so it's nice to have the swage capability.  When I first got the 1050 I had a number of 5 gallon buckets of 308 and 223 to process.  When I load I will set up for one caliber and plan on loading at least 1000, preferably more, rounds of that caliber to make it worth changing over.  When I process the rifle brass I usually tumble the brass, size, swage and trim/size (using a Dillon RT1200).  When I reload rifle I use a spacer between the lock ring and tool head so I'm not fully sizing the brass.

 

I'm also using a Mr. Bullet Feeder that helps speed up the operation.  What slows down the process is filling primer tubes so make sure you pick up plenty of extras.  Last week I was loading some 380 on my 550 and it sure seemed like a slow process. 

[ultimase]

14 hours ago, Bronco9588 said:

Is it worth going used on a 1050?

 

That depends on the cost. Dillon equipment hold value quite well usually 80% or greater. But remember there isn't the same warranty on the 1050 as the other presses and repairs can be expensive, so it definitely pays to look at the press closely.

 

Deals are out there if you watch carefully. I ended up with two at just about what one would have cost me new. Was only looking for one but mistakenly left a wtb ad up and stumbled across a deal after already having one. The plan now is to set up one for large primer and one for small primer. 

[Bronco9588]

Are there differences between 1050s?

[Alan550]

The Super 1050 has a longer stroke than the original 1050.  The older one can't handle the longer rifle rounds that the Super does.

 

Alan~^~

[Bronco9588]

So I have thought quite a bit about the niche of the 1050 being that it is made for "commercial purposes." When dealing with economies of scale, I think the professional commercial loader ends up going with a Camdex operation. I see the 1050's best commercial purpose is for ranges to feed their rental guns in common calibers. 

 

I don't NEED a 1050. I would simply buy one for the mechanical marvel that it is and that i like machines. I feel like it is still a compromise. I like the primer seating on the downstroke and the swaging is really useful for military brass. I just don't see it as being the ultimate.

 

I would like to hone in on some other minor differences between the 650 and 1050:

 

1) how is COAL consistency and runout between the two? 

 

2) How long to change out just the shell plate? I am looking at using loctite on the die nuts and just swapping out the dies.

 

3) Are there any parts besides the dies that I could reuse going from a 650 to a 1050 like the powder measure to offset the price of the upgrade?

 

4) Not entirely related, but can I use a dillon case trimmer on short cartridges like 9mm to ensure quality control? I definitely have had some outliers in pistol brass.

 

5) Does the no bs warranty still cover the 450 and other presses not currently being manufactured by dillon? I think the 450 would be an amazing press for bolt action low volume shooting and load development.

 

I think the 650 makes the most sense for me at this time. Plenty of stations, I can build up my machine to know what I like, it can come with a brass feeder, and I can sell it at 80% of its value. 

[jhgtyre]

20 hours ago, Bronco9588 said:

...

I think the 650 makes the most sense for me at this time. Plenty of stations, I can build up my machine to know what I like, it can come with a brass feeder, and I can sell it at 80% of its value. 

Dillon offers a "Risk Free 30 Day Trial".  Pick up a 650 and have at it for a few weeks.  See for yourself if you like it.

[mjmagee67]

I love my 1050 for 9mm. I'm starting to see more and more brass with crimped primers in 9mm. With the 1050 I don't care, clean them, lube them, throw them in the case feeded, and load them. That alone is worth it. 

[Brooke]

I don't do rifle so my comments do not include that. I think I do a fairly high volume of 9mm...about 50K per year.

 

I started with a 550 and added a second one, then added a case feeder to each. It is a very good press and you might consider two 550's one for pistol and one for rifle. Lastly I added a MBF to one of the 550's. Honestly changeovers on any of the presses is a PITA. It's not just the mechanical change time but also the adjustment time to get powder charge,  AOL , and casing crimp at the new caliber. You will get darn tired of switching back and  forth.My solution to that was a complete toolhead for each variation I loaded. But that can add up big time and doesn't solve the small/large primer changeover.

 

Since I was primarily (now totally) interested in 9mm, I sold the 550's and got a 650. Loved the increased speed when equipped with case feeder and MBF. Now the only adjustment is changing powders which I occasionally do.

 

Then I got the hots for go-faster. Added a 650 Pro Mark 7. I believe I am at the optimum. 1200 rounds per hour hands free. This thing is a Cadillac. I would not sell it all for an extra 20%. 

 

While I do not have a 1050 it is my impression from others that changing over a 1050 is really a PITA. At least in pistol I see no reason whatever to be able to swage crimped primers. I sort cases by head stamp because the best consistency in press operation and AOL comes that way. I just throw away military cases and any other that I know to be crimped. I also toss the known stepped cases that are known for separating. I load only FC, WIN, Blazer, RP,  PMC, and Speer cases. If you buy 5000, about 4000 of those will be these head stamps. Shooting indoors I sweep up all my cases. Out doors I collect as many as possible when practicing on 1/4 of a minnow seine. On average I use these cases about 25 times before losing at matches or in multi distance/stage practice where moving the seine is a PITA.

 

Unless you are doing a huge volume of one caliber, I would not buy a 1050. If you must do rifle, get a 650 for pistol and a 550 for rifle.

 

 

Edited June 13, 2017 by Brooke

[jhgtyre]

5 hours ago, Brooke said:

I don't do rifle so my comments do not include that. I think I do a fairly high volume of 9mm...about 50K per year.

 

I started with a 550 and added a second one, then added a case feeder to each. It is a very good press and you might consider two 550's one for pistol and one for rifle. Lastly I added a MBF to one of the 550's. Honestly changeovers on any of the presses is a PITA. It's not just the mechanical change time but also the adjustment time to get powder charge,  AOL , and casing crimp at the new caliber. You will get darn tired of switching back and  forth.My solution to that was a complete toolhead for each variation I loaded. But that can add up big time and doesn't solve the small/large primer changeover...

 

I added the red emphasis above.  I believe the OP mentioned that they were just going to change dies back and forth and I would definitely say that the extra $112 to buy a quick change kit from Dillon is money well spent.  Even with loctite on the die rings it is a pain to swap dies out of the toolhead each time.  Buying the quick change eliminates that hassle.
 

 

On 6/6/2017 at 4:15 PM, Bronco9588 said:

I have a hard time justifying the capital. The cost difference is impressive. I don't care about warranty differences. I am looking to do high volume 9mm and 223 rem. With hornady bullets, I am estimating only a 10 cent savings per round. This will take me years to pay off. I will get a full toolhead setup for both calibers. I also want to get into wildcating military cartridges. Looking at blackout and 260 rem.

There is a "break even" calculator at this link http://dillonprecision.net/break-even-calculator/ .  That will help you figure out how long it will take to pay off the reloading equipment.

[GrumpyOne]

The quick change from Dillon is more than money well spent. The time savings alone using a separate tool head for each caliber is enormous. I started with one tool head and powder hopper...I now have 4 tool heads and  powder hoppers. If I decide to reload another caliber, I will buy another tool head and powder hopper. 

[Want2BS8ed]

While I do not have a 1050 it is my impression from others that changing over a 1050 is really a PITA.

I'm not sure why that impression is so persistent, because it simply isn't the case.

Swapping a head or shell plate is relatively quick on the 1050 (as it is on the 550 and 650).

There is value in the 1050's ability to expand cases, swage primer pockets, prime on the down stoke to consistent depths and easily add a bullet feeder or powder check while maintaining separate seating and crimping stations - but it all comes at a price.

If you are reloading multiple calibers, it gets expensive very quickly to setup separate heads.

The decision is ultimately one of finances. Either way you can't really go wrong if you are in the OP's shoes and you can afford it.

M

PS aren't the Mark VII's awesome? But good-googly-moogly... if an automated 650 is a Caddie what's a Mark VII driven 1050? Oh wait... I think may have answered that^^^


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