Jump to content
Brian Enos's Forums... Maku mozo!

Setting up a M&P 15-22 for Steel Challenge


LeviSS

Recommended Posts

I was looking to try RFRO.  I was  going to get a 10/22, then I got to thinking.  I already have a M&P 15-22 AR and 5 mags for it...maybe I'd do a couple things to it to use for SC.

 

The biggest thing I want to change is the trigger.

 

Which trigger do you guys like?

 

What optic?

 

Any other mods for reliability or shoot-ability?

Edited by LeviSS
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, definitely run the 15-22 if you already own it and like it.  I know guys that use Hiperfire 24c's in them, which is what I'd do in the same situation.  It basically comes down to what you like and how much you want to spend.  Beyond that, a carbon-fiber handguard will reduce weight on the front end.  If you don't have a good muzzle brake, you'll want something to throw noise back at the timer so you don't end up with unrecorded shots.

 

For optics, I like the the C-More RTS2 in 8moa, but again it comes down to preference and how much you want to spend.  A lot of folks use the C-More railway very effectively, which will save you some $$$ to invest in the trigger.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, rowdyb said:

i just polished the stock parts and put in jp yellow springs. running a chinese optic.

Thanks.  Do you know what weight it's pulling?  How's the break?  Crisp?  Has it been reliable?  It would be worth a try for $10.

8 hours ago, jkrispies said:

Yes, definitely run the 15-22 if you already own it and like it.  I know guys that use Hiperfire 24c's in them, which is what I'd do in the same situation.  It basically comes down to what you like and how much you want to spend.  Beyond that, a carbon-fiber handguard will reduce weight on the front end.  If you don't have a good muzzle brake, you'll want something to throw noise back at the timer so you don't end up with unrecorded shots.

 

For optics, I like the the C-More RTS2 in 8moa, but again it comes down to preference and how much you want to spend.  A lot of folks use the C-More railway very effectively, which will save you some $$$ to invest in the trigger.  

Thanks.  That's one trigger I've heard a lot of good things about, mostly in PCC.

 

I was also considering a brake, since a guy I shot with this weekend was running the exact gun I have and the timer wasn't picking it up at all.

 

Anyone have suggestions for a brake?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I took my muzzle device off and just run a thread protector. No brake or comp. (This same gun normally has a suppressor on it is why)

The break is crisp and light, I did not put it on a gauge as it felt good enough just with feeling it.

 

Reliability of the gun has been good. Typical rimfire needs as far as cleaning, oil and decent ammo. It is definitely a budget build for me and I'm fine with it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, LeviSS said:

Thanks.  Do you know what weight it's pulling?  How's the break?  Crisp?  Has it been reliable?  It would be worth a try for $10.

Thanks.  That's one trigger I've heard a lot of good things about, mostly in PCC.

 

I was also considering a brake, since a guy I shot with this weekend was running the exact gun I have and the timer wasn't picking it up at all.

 

Anyone have suggestions for a brake?

 

While I do think there is some benefit to a brake on a .22lr in terms of keeping it flat, etc., it is so minimal I don't think you should worry about it in that respect.  It is necessary for throwing the noise back to be picked up by the timer.  So... just pick a brake that looks cool.  :D

 

Okay, I do take it more seriously than that!  For instance, you'll want one that's not adding any more weight than necessary.  If you want more info from me on .22lr brakes (and 15-22 other parts), send me a PM, as I think I have the best .22lr brake out there but it's not widely available.  I don't shoot a 15-22 (yet) but my shooting partner does, so I can pass some info on to you.

 

Edited by jkrispies
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello,    I use the Hiperfire 24e,   carbon fiber front guard,   removed the muzzle flash part and use a thread protector,  CMore railway sight,   and a cool part that bolts onto the butt end....it raises the stock up a few inches and makes the gun easier to mount.  CCI MINI MAGS work good. 

have fun,  shoot safe,  Karl @ GT    

Edited by Karl @ GT
speling
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I usually just hang out and read and learn, but I can give some input here.  Master class RFRO with a 15/22 for about a year now.  A few things I have found with the 15/22:

 

First, and in my looking back, most important, is a compensator.  This has NOTHING to do with any effect on the bullet, its trajectory, or recoil, (not one of these will be affected at all with a comp on a .22) but everything to do with the timer picking up all of your shots every time.  It simply makes it louder, nothing else.  I got the Allchin specifically made for the 15-22 and never had an issue with a dropped score again.  Others are designed to do different things and not sure how effective they would be, but the Allchin was an immediate improvement and by far the best modification I have made to the gun.  Heads up though, the factory flash suppressor is on there very very tight and the barrel is only mounted into plastic.  Have someone with the right tools remove it, this is not something to take lightly as you can easily spin the barrel in the plastic and completely ruin the gun beyond repair.

 

Second, just pick an optic.  For the 15/22, stay with the ones made for AR height for proper cheek weld.  Personally, I have tried a few options and have stayed with a Bushnell TRS-25 micro mounted all the way forward on the receiver.  This is what works for me.  I tried setting it up exactly as Jerry Miculek in one of his instructional videos with a Vortex Strikefire mounted to the rear of the receiver and it just wasn't for me, but saw the benefit of the larger field of vision with the larger tube.  I did notice the Vortex's brightest setting was just short of the Bushnell on a sunny day.  Either of these low budget optics are perfect with no need to spend more.  Just find what works for you.  Best advice I got for steel challenge sight in, is one inch high at 25 yards and always shoot for the center of the plate.

 

Ok, so I put the Geiselle SD-3G trigger in mine this year.  I made Master last year with a bone stock trigger, no polishing, never even had it apart.  After hearing so much about aftermarket triggers I guess I had to follow suit.  I noticed absolutely no difference in shooting performance, although it feels amazing.  The stock trigger will do absolutely fine.  Steel Challenge is more about not missing fast than anything else, and the stock trigger will more than do the job.  Three of my fastest times, less than a second over Peak Time for the course were set with the stock trigger.  11.07 vs 11.00 Peak Time on 5 to Go.  The point is, the aftermarket triggers are nice, but absolutely not necessary.  A strong word of caution - I researched the aftermarket triggers extensively and found nearly any drop in trigger for an AR platform will install, but many cause light primer strikes.  It takes considerably less force to activate a 5.56 or .223 primer than a rimfire round and many get their light trigger pull at the sacrifice of power to the primer.  Geisselle seemed to be what people had the most success with and I would say the same for me.  I cannot image the frustration of spending that kind of cash to find you now have a constant light primer strike issue.  One other thing, the 15/22 receiver is slightly wider than a mil spec AR.  This means the pins for most trigger groups are too short.  Some are reported to work just fine like that.  Others complained of pin walk.  There is a company that makes an anti walk pin set that I almost went with, but they are ugly with an external connector.  I ran across a random forum post where a guy said its a little known secret the Colt 901 pins are a perfect fit.  I ordered these with my trigger from Geiselle, and he was exactly right.  Perfect, flush fit.

 

Magazines - I use the Smith and Wesson 25 round mags and have 10 right now.  I shoot four strings of five with one mag and the last string with a mag I keep in a kydex mag pouch on my belt in the event of a malfunction requiring a quick reload.  This keeps me from having to reload a magazine all day for a normal match of 6 stages.  If you miss a little more, possibly reload after three strings, but the five you have should be plenty for sure.

 

Last, as far as reliability, find ammo it likes and keep it clean.  The 15/22 is by far the most reliable rimfire rifle I have seen at my local competitions as well as what I have read about and why so many shoot it.  I see the high end Rugers have jam after jam and stifle very good shooters - good gun, but the available mags aren't quite as reliable as the 15/22.  The 15/22 just runs and runs.  I have only found one type of ammo it didn't like, some Federal brown tipped hollowpoint.  Otherwise, my go to is actually Remington Golden Bullet or the Troy Landry Edition 36 grain CCI MiniMags.  I have never had a failure with either.  The second is a bit cleaner.  I have experimented with low velocity versus high and definitely prefer the high.  The shot is more crisp and most importantly louder for the timer.

 

Sorry for the long post, but my 15/22 in Steel Challenge is by far the most fun I have shooting anything with a trigger and I would be happy to help someone else enjoy it the same.  Good luck.

Edited by Hammer002
Grammar/correction
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hammer - Thanks for the lengthy response.  I appreciate the effort and time you spent.

 

Has anyone had trouble installing a brake/comp on the M&P 22-15?  I should be fine to remove/install a muzzle device with a sturdy vise and barrel clamp block, right?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, LeviSS said:

Hammer - Thanks for the lengthy response.  I appreciate the effort and time you spent.

 

Has anyone had trouble installing a brake/comp on the M&P 22-15?  I should be fine to remove/install a muzzle device with a sturdy vise and barrel clamp block, right?

NP.

 

installing the new one is cake.  Most come with a new crush washer.  As I said, be very attentive not to let the barrel turn in the plastic receiver.  An aluminum barrel clamp or block of wood with a hole drilled and then split to use as a clamp are the two best options for the 15-22.  There are numerous videos. The stock one is really REALLY on there. I have heard the same from every single person I know who has changed it and there are endless stories on the internet about it.  If you know what you are doing (I did and still became uncomfortable enough to have someone more qualified do it) have at it, just make sure you have a good hold on it and be ready to exert some serious muscle.

 

hope it works for you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've run a 15-22 for steel with very good results,  Here's my shopping list:

 

The tools you'll need to remove the stock flash suppressor and to remove the stock handguard, if you want to change handguards.

https://www.tacticool22.com/product/barrel-vise-jaws-and-barrel-nut-wrench-pro-combo-for-the-smith-wesson-m-p15-22/

 

The above tools with a new barrel nut adapter so you can install standard AR handguards.  The difference between the standard barrel nut adapter and the modified barrel nut adapter is whether you want to cut off a plastic tab on the upper receiver that locates the stock handguard.  Most AR handguards do not have a cutout for the tab.  The standard barrel nut adapter does not require removal of the tab.

https://www.tacticool22.com/product/free-float-handguard-kit-sw-mp15-22-standard-4-piece/

 

I run this handguard on my 15-22.  It's very light and long enough for my orangutan length arms.  As delivered it only used one screw to locate to the included barrel nut, I drilled and tapped to add 2 more screws.

https://taccom3g.com/product/ultralight-handguard/

 

The stock charging handle works fine until you have to clear a mis-fire on the clock.  The NDZ with the extended tac-latch works well and comes in a variety of colors.

http://www.ndzperformance.com/NDZ-Performance-S-W-15-22-Charging-Handle-p/sw-ch-combo-blk.htm

 

 

Sexier and more expensive

https://www.tacticool22.com/product/sw-mp15-22-charging-handle-ambidextrous/

 

 

Since I run a BAD lever on all my other AR's I added this one.  The Magpul BAD lever will not fit on the 15-22 because of the polymer receiver.  This one fits OK, but it's flimsy which is OK since this one is only getting used for playing games.

http://www.ndzperformance.com/NDZ-Performance-S-W-M-P-15-22-SBR-p/ndz-sw-sbr-blk.htm

 

Regardless of which trigger you use, these are the correct pins for the 15-22.  The Colt 901 pins are the correct length, but the lower will last longer if the pins don't rotate.

I run a Hiperfire 24C. 

https://knsprecisioninc.com/nrthp/m-p15-22-non-rotate-trigger-hammer-pins-gen-2-mod-2-black.html

 

 

I run a CTR buttstock because I had one I wasn't using for anything else and it's nice since my wife can adjust it to fit her.  While you have the buttstock removed lay a 6 inch long piece of black electrical tape along the top of the 'buffer tube' positioned so it will be completely covered by the buttstock to remove any excess wobble from the adjustable buttstock.  This also works with the original buttstock.

https://www.magpul.com/products/ctr-carbine-stock-mil-spec

 

 

If you run the CTR depending on what sights you run you may need a cheek riser.  Magpul has them in .25, .50 and .75 heights.  I run it reversed and it clears the charging handle until the stock is almost fully collapsed.  It is almost mandatory if you have a moustache to prevent the CTR from pulling at least 2 hairs each time you dismount the rifle!

https://www.magpul.com/products/ctr-moe-025-cheek-riser

 

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have a 15-22 modified exactly like jkrispies said and it's very nice, but my 10/22 is faster.

 

f37d68cead36e95983fe59debe8f49b2.jpg

 

A good 10/22 trigger (Kidd) is smoother, lighter and resets faster than the 15-22 which is why I don't shoot my my 15-22 anymore. I started with this 10/22 which has been awesome for rimfire tactical matches, but I had control issues with the short stock that caused me to push past the targets in Steel Challenge. Thanks to jkrispies for helping me diagnose that!

 

e07b6c51d92840aa7b05132171c8dd3f.jpg

 

I just finished what seems to be the answer for me. This 10/22 gives me the ability to choke up or stretch out my grip depending on what type of match I'm shooting, and still has the fastest trigger. If I had a threaded barrel I would add a comp, but otherwise it shoots very well.

 

6c5d8dad7acb750b8573e81fdc7c0dd7.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Very nice pics, 1911luvr.  Locally, the highly modified 10/22s here remind me of Open pistol and PCC in USPSA with guys constantly fighting them to run.  Some are amazing shooters and would probably win more if their guns were more reliable.  I'm still learning more and more, but I think the 15/22 is still appropriate for my shooting, but the well done 10/22s are excellent rifles when they run well and may be in my future at some point as Steel matches are really my favor right now.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Very nice pics, 1911luvr.  Locally, the highly modified 10/22s here remind me of Open pistol and PCC in USPSA with guys constantly fighting them to run.  Some are amazing shooters and would probably win more if their guns were more reliable.  I'm still learning more and more, but I think the 15/22 is still appropriate for my shooting, but the well done 10/22s are excellent rifles when they run well and may be in my future at some point as Steel matches are really my favor right now.  

Thank you very much! I keep hearing people complain about 10/22s, but mine must be an exception as it is 99%+ in reliability. I've have more issues with my 15-22 than my 10/22. In fact, I had two stages with stoppages last shoot with my 15-22, but I haven't had two stoppages with my 10/22 in all of the last 10 matches.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Link to comment
Share on other sites

All .22lr guns are ammo sensitive.  It has to do with the design of the .22lr, which is atypical.  Keep experimenting with loads and you'll likely  find a winner.  

My rule of thumb has served me well- if it's a competition I only shoot CCI. I have had one actual bad round in the last year with Mini-Mags. The few problems with either rifle or pistol have been mag related. Cleaning, tuning, etc has always solved the problem. Now Golden Bullets and Federal Automatch are a different story, and that's why I never shoot them in a match.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah, I hate Federal.  My 10/22 will eat Golden Bullets all day long though-- every bit as good as CCI, but I'll shoot that first if given a choice.  I'm 100% certain that if we can get you a higher quality dot, your times will improve markedly.  Which means that I need to practice more!!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah, I hate Federal.  My 10/22 will eat Golden Bullets all day long though-- every bit as good as CCI, but I'll shoot that first if given a choice.  I'm 100% certain that if we can get you a higher quality dot, your times will improve markedly.  Which means that I need to practice more!!!

Thanks! If I can keep working with you guys I'll be nipping at your heels in the GM class soon!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Has anyone replaced the extractor with an aftermarket like the Volquartzen?

 

Did it seem to help with extraction?

 

I've had some issues with brass being stuck in the chamber, then I have to pop it out with a little screwdriver.  It could be ammo related or dirty gun, but didn't know if aftermarket would work better.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Has anyone replaced the extractor with an aftermarket like the Volquartzen?
 
Did it seem to help with extraction?
 
I've had some issues with brass being stuck in the chamber, then I have to pop it out with a little screwdriver.  It could be ammo related or dirty gun, but didn't know if aftermarket would work better.

It's the one of the first things I do to a 10/22. It's cheap insurance.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...