sheepdog69 Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 I have a question for all you out there. If i were to build a 2011 double stack, the internals are for the mot part east to fit. my question is on the barrel to slide fit. i read on schuemann barrels website that there is a .020 gap that needs to be in this? is this where the barrel fits into the slide? or is it the locking lugs to the barrel locking lugs? can someone explain this to me a bit more. Im confident I can put one together but I just want to know everything ahead of time before i start Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyler2you Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 The barrel to slide fit is probably the most difficult thing to get right when building a 1911/2011 (and the most important for accuracy/timing/reliability/durability). You typically start by fitting slide to frame, cutting the barrel hood to length, fitting the upper lugs to get approx .045 engagement, cutting the lower lugs, selecting/installing the correct link, scraping/filing for final lower lug engagement, and then hoping you got everything right so the barrel hits the vertical impact surface and doesn't ride the link. There's a lot to know on this topic and problems arise frequently. You have to know when the barrel is too tight in the slide and springing or if it's hitting the barrel bed preventing full linkdown. There are also variations based on bull vs. bushing barrels and the different types of barrel ramps. If you're serious about putting one together, I'd recommend calling Glenn at Lonestar Innovations and having him build you a short block or at least a top end where the barrel fitting has be done for you. Otherwise, buy the Kuhnhausen manuals and a cart full of tools from Brownells and start reading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drewbeck Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 If you're not trying to make money doing it, PATIENCE and the few appropriate hand tools and the manuals / youtube (with a grain of salt) will give you enough info to do it correctly. Your first won't be your best, and you shouldn't expect it to be perfect, but it isn't rocket science as long as you put it down regularly to think and figure out what needs to be done next and what is causing it to hang up. Much like anything if you are results focused rather than caring about the process, it's going to be frustrating. If you plan on ruining a barrel in order to learn in the process you'll likely be happy with how it turns out. If on the other hand you're trying to save money, you're better off letting someone do it. It's when the problems arise that you'll have a whole different level of understanding and respect for the professional gunsmith trying to earn a living building and fixing guns when you've spent 15 hours fitting a barrel and the timing isn't quite right. It's fun and should be its own hobby vs thinking it will save you money. (not saying that in your case, just saying) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 ^ pure gold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drewbeck Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 Ya, it's like this "who built your gun"? I did, "oh sweet, you want to fit a barrel for me"? Sure, it'll be $1,500... "what"? Ya $1,500 cause that's what I make in the amount of hours it took me to get this one one fit and running well.... Or, ya sure but ya gotta ask my dogs and wife to see if they're cool with me not walking them (dogs, not wife...) next month, and it'll only be $750..... For me, it's as much fun playing/making them as shooting them but I know for a fact I'd be much better off if I spent that time and money dry firing or practicing and instead pay a pro for the work than I am spending my time learning to do it myself. Time or money, which doe you vale more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbullet Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 Just wanting to understand barrel lug fit to slide lug fit here as well when I saw this topic I took a sharpie and put it all over the slide lugs and the barrel lugs, cycled it by hand and the results are as follows: All the sharpie on the slide whether the protruding lugs and the crevice lost its sharpie markings - looking good then On the barrel - all of the sharpie marks is removed on the protruding lugs part but those on the crevice area, the sharpie was intact - is that good or bad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepdog69 Posted June 21, 2017 Author Share Posted June 21, 2017 im still trying to understand that part too Jim, im determined to figure out how to do this... im pretty good at what i do and this will be a new adventure. not much on information videos out there but i will find one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drewbeck Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 On 6/4/2017 at 2:55 PM, jimbullet said: Just wanting to understand barrel lug fit to slide lug fit here as well when I saw this topic I took a sharpie and put it all over the slide lugs and the barrel lugs, cycled it by hand and the results are as follows: All the sharpie on the slide whether the protruding lugs and the crevice lost its sharpie markings - looking good then On the barrel - all of the sharpie marks is removed on the protruding lugs part but those on the crevice area, the sharpie was intact - is that good or bad? Visialize these two parts interacting, I'm guessing you don't own the tools to measure the depths of the lugs and ways of the barrel and slide so think about what's happening and during lockup/unlocking and see if that makes sense. If the slide show contact in all areas but the barrel only shows contact on the "higher" points, that means the barrel is bottoming out in the slide and making full contact. Because there is no contact in the ways of the upper barrel lugs means that the barrel lugs are taller than the slide lugs are deep. In order to get contact on the ways of the barrel lugs you'd need to make the high points shorter so the height of them is the same as the depth of the slide lugs. If you do that, where does oil, grit and grime fit? Is there any tolerance left for anything at all? ideally what is in your head is a "perfect fit" and logical, in reality though, that scenario is jam city because there would be no tolerance for lock/unlock and it would bind something fierce. without measuring lockup or seeing it, there's no way to tell but what you're describing is normal. A great thing I've done when learning and building my own is to sharpie a known working and well fit gun and compare wear patterns For parts as I go. It won't be the answer in all cases but is a great gut check Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncman Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 Buy Kunehausen's book... I promise you the light bulb will then turn on. It is the cheapest thing you can do for your 1911-2011. Seriously a book that explains it all and even has pics! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenault Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 On 6/4/2017 at 2:56 AM, drewbeck said: Ya, it's like this "who built your gun"? I did, "oh sweet, you want to fit a barrel for me"? Sure, it'll be $1,500... "what"? Ya $1,500 cause that's what I make in the amount of hours it took me to get this one one fit and running well.... Or, ya sure but ya gotta ask my dogs and wife to see if they're cool with me not walking them (dogs, not wife...) next month, and it'll only be $750..... For me, it's as much fun playing/making them as shooting them but I know for a fact I'd be much better off if I spent that time and money dry firing or practicing and instead pay a pro for the work than I am spending my time learning to do it myself. Time or money, which doe you vale more Forgive my ignorance, but I've been considering this topic also. I've seen a couple places quote a barrel fitting, would that not work? This in reference to the $1500 to get the gun working right part Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drewbeck Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 39 minutes ago, chenault said: Forgive my ignorance, but I've been considering this topic also. I've seen a couple places quote a barrel fitting, would that not work? This in reference to the $1500 to get the gun working right part I was more making the point that, me as a non professional gunsmith, it takes me way more time to do a good job fitting a barrel than it takes a professional gunsmith who has fit hundreds of them. Ie, what I'm really saying is it will always be "cheaper" to pay a pro to do it than to take the time or buy the tools to do it yourself if you value your time from a financial perspective. For example, in my job where I'm a "professional" there would be less time involved for me to work at my job to make enough money to pay a pro gunsmith for the amount of hours it takes him at the hourly rate he charges to do the same job. So for example if I make $100/HR and a gunsmith wants to make $100/Hr where a barrel fitting = 3hrs or $300 "cost", it will take me 3 hours to make the money to pay him for the same amount of time and work. Whereas me as a non pro Gunsmith, it may take me 15 hours to fit a barrel which would equate to $1,500 in lost money I could have made if I spent the same time at my profession instead of learning to fit a barrel. The way I look at it is that it costs me (time vs money) double or triple the amount of hours to build a gun than what I could have spent to have it done by a GS. For ME, that is acceptable as I value the learning aspect and am willing to pay for that experience. I this point, I don't kid myself that I'm even close to breaking even but it's worth it for the value I get from it for personal reasons. The more I build the closer I will be to being proficient and be able to build them in the same time it takes a pro and at that point I would actually break even financially. If I don't place any value on my time then the out of pocket cost per gun could be cheaper but that's a bad way to think about it when debating on whether you want to build your own gun. Time is money, gotta decide which one is easier to give, or impacts you least. At the same time, I know I'm sacrificing my practice time to actually get better at shooting to learn to build guns so that should be part of the decision as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenault Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 Ok, yea that makes sense. I can see the exception being that the time spent doing it is valuable within itself, which you hit upon. Thank you for clarifying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike cyrwus Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 That gap you speak of is clearance on the top of the barrel lugs/ slide lug recesses as its unlocked and dropped down and the slide cycles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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