Does this finished 40 round look right?

[R1_Demon]

Hey all,

 

Hoping for some feedback. I'm setting up my dies on my LnL AP press so I can start making some 40 rounds. I measured the case before I started and it was 0.416 empty.  I then installed and adjusted the decapping/resizing die (all Hornady Custom die set) and ran the case through it to check. Came out the same size. 

 

I then installed the belling die and adjusted it. I read to try and adjust it only about .001 over to help not stress the brass. Uhhhh, ya.  I couldn't get the Hornady XTP bullets to even barely sit on top until the top was flared to 0.424. Way more than I expected. I just did enough to set the bullet straight on top of the case...not "in" the case. 

 

I then set up and adjusted the bullet seater. I kept working it until I was at my preferred OAL of 1.125. Then I wasn't sure if 40's used "crimp" or not. However, when I looked at the round it was freaky because it was buldged at the top where the bullet was seated and then tapered down and then back out at the bottom of the case. Not straight all the way down like a factory round.  I read this was the "Coke bottle" look. 

 

I then read on here that 40s do get crimp (really should just be called debelling). But there was no real number for the crimp. Just enough to take the belling out but not crease the bullet. So I played with this a bit and I think I got it where it should be. The top/mouth of the case is at 0.421 but the middle is still 0.416. Is this right???  It is fairly smooth on the sides/edge of the case mouth. It also passed the plunk and spin test in my XDm 5.25" without an issue. 

 

I attached a picture of the finished round. It is a dummy round only. I haven't messed with the primers or powder setup yet. I wanted to get this right first. 

 

I have mixed brass brass and this is a HRTRS stamped piece. I don't know if it matters or not. 

 

So, what do you all think?  Does it appear that everything is setup right?  Should I still have that Coke bottle look?  I don't want to start working on the primers and powder drop if the debelling or the rest is still off. 

 

Thanks!

[GrumpyOne]

Yep. Absolutely normal. And how they should look. The coke bottle effect keeps you from getting setback when the nose of the bullet hits the feed ramp.

 

As a general rule, for crimp, what you want is the bullet diameter, plus the case wall thickness x two. So, if the case wall is .010, then you would have .400 + .010 + .010, so you would end up with .420 at the case mouth after the "crimp".

[R1_Demon]

8 minutes ago, GrumpyOne said:

Yep. Absolutely normal. And how they should look. The coke bottle effect keeps you from getting setback when the nose of the bullet hits the feed ramp.

 

As a general rule, for crimp, what you want is the bullet diameter, plus the case wall thickness x two. So, if the case wall is .010, then you would have .400 + .010 + .010, so you would end up with .420 at the case mouth after the "crimp".

 

I thought I read that formula from you on another post but what freaked me out was the .416 middle. I wanted to make sure. 

 

How come factory rounds look look totally straight then?  But thank you for the confirmation. ???. No I can go on to setting up the powder measure. Woooohooo!  I'm almost there!

[GrumpyOne]

I would assume that the brass that the factory uses is new, and they don't need to resize it smaller to get it back into shape. Remember,  metal stretches, so to get to the right size, we have to undersize it some because it will spring back some. This is just a guess though. 

[bigedp51]

Your case looks normal and many shooters use undersized EGW or Lee dies that increase the Coke bottle shape of the case. The Coke bottle shape with its reduced diameter also prevents the bullet moving to the rear.

 

I have Redding dies and the expander is shaped like a Lyman type M die which does not flair the case mouth like other dies. Meaning less expanding or stretching of the case mouth.

Edited May 27, 2017 by bigedp51

[R1_Demon]

2 hours ago, GrumpyOne said:

I would assume that the brass that the factory uses is new, and they don't need to resize it smaller to get it back into shape. Remember,  metal stretches, so to get to the right size, we have to undersize it some because it will spring back some. This is just a guess though. 

 

Good point, I didn't think about that. ???

[R1_Demon]

2 hours ago, bigedp51 said:

Your case looks normal and many shooters use undersized EGW or Lee dies that increase the Coke bottle shape of the case. The Coke bottle shape with its reduced diameter also prevents the bullet moving to the rear.

 

I have Redding dies and the expander is shaped like a Lyman type M die which does not flair the case mouth like other dies. Meaning less expanding or stretching of the case mouth.

 

Cool. Thanks for the info. I'm just glad to see it is normal.

 

Maybe that is what my Hornady Custom Die Set is like?  If I looked in the case I could see I was sliding down into the case but the mouth wasn't flairing much at all. I couldn't even set the bullet on it. So I had to keep going deeper with the belling die until I could finally barely set the XTP HP bullet on top of the case. 

 

I just setup my powder measure and dialed it in, so I believe I'm ready to go. I still might try and increase my OAL from 1.125 (what Titegroup suggests for the XTP HP bullet, but in a 4" barrel) to 1.135 though just to give myself a safety buffer.  I'll just have to plunk/spin test it first in my XDm 5.25" barrel. It just seems like almost nobody here runs less than 1.130 OAL for 40, so I'm a bit paranoid about running at 1.125. 

[JFoley001]

Looks terrible.  Whip up a thousand more and mail directly to me for further inspection

[R1_Demon]

12 minutes ago, JFoley001 said:

Looks terrible.  Whip up a thousand more and mail directly to me for further inspection

 

LOL!  You'll let me know how they look after you shoot them all?  ???

[fbzero]

I use the EGW U-Die, and it is very normal for my loaded rounds to have the "coke bottle" effect.  I suspect it's probably a good thing to reduce the possibility of bullet setback with reloaded brass.  I don't see anything that would alarm me in your picture.

[R1_Demon]

Fbzero, I appreciate your input. ??

[tac_driver]

On 5/27/2017 at 5:53 PM, R1_Demon said:

 

Cool. Thanks for the info. I'm just glad to see it is normal.

 

Maybe that is what my Hornady Custom Die Set is like?  If I looked in the case I could see I was sliding down into the case but the mouth wasn't flairing much at all. I couldn't even set the bullet on it. So I had to keep going deeper with the belling die until I could finally barely set the XTP HP bullet on top of the case. 

 

I just setup my powder measure and dialed it in, so I believe I'm ready to go. I still might try and increase my OAL from 1.125 (what Titegroup suggests for the XTP HP bullet, but in a 4" barrel) to 1.135 though just to give myself a safety buffer.  I'll just have to plunk/spin test it first in my XDm 5.25" barrel. It just seems like almost nobody here runs less than 1.130 OAL for 40, so I'm a bit paranoid about running at 1.125. 

I run thousands of rounds through my Glock 23 at that OAL

with no issues.

remember the books OAL is what they used for their firearm

best OAL will be what works in your firearm after doing the

plunk and spin tests. 

[R1_Demon]

On 6/4/2017 at 10:03 AM, tac_driver said:

I run thousands of rounds through my Glock 23 at that OAL

with no issues.

remember the books OAL is what they used for their firearm

best OAL will be what works in your firearm after doing the

plunk and spin tests. 

 

Makes sense.  I'm going to make another dummy round and start at a longer OAL and keep trying the plunk and spin test to see what works in that 5.25" XDm barrel.

 

Question...do you need to crimp it to do the plunk and spin test or can you just seat the bullet and try it that way with no crimp?  I don't want to not crimp it and have it flunk the tests and find out it was because of not crimping it, but then again, I don't want to crimp it if it isn't necessary just for the test.   But once I get what appears to be my longest working OAL, I will crimp it and run the tests again to verify everything is good to go.

 

Thanks!

Mat

[dsu96]

Don't forget when determining OAL to check the round in your mags as well.

 

On my XDM 5.25", I could plunk/spin a round with 1.150" OAL all day, but the round wouldn't fit in my mag.  Longest OAL I could run through my mags is 1.145".  However, I load to 1.135" OAL so that the occasional "long load" will still run in my mags.

 

 

[R1_Demon]

On 6/7/2017 at 10:45 AM, dsu96 said:

Don't forget when determining OAL to check the round in your mags as well.

 

On my XDM 5.25", I could plunk/spin a round with 1.150" OAL all day, but the round wouldn't fit in my mag.  Longest OAL I could run through my mags is 1.145".  However, I load to 1.135" OAL so that the occasional "long load" will still run in my mags.

 

 

 

??????. I figured I'd have the barrel and the factory mag out for testing while I was doing this just for that reason. I didn't want to think I was good and then have them not fit the mag or nosedive when trying to feed. I appreciate the heads up. 

Edited June 10, 2017 by R1_Demon

[jimbullet]

as long as it feeds  - that is fine