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NPA, Stance, and Wide Transitions


DKorn

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in my last match, there was a stage with some very wide transitions, at least compared to what I've shot before. As you can see in the video below, I lined up my feet to shoot the targets on the right, then shifted my feet to shoot the targets on the left.

 

 

Naturally, this is extremely slow and inefficient, so I've been experimenting in dry fire to try to improve.

 

What I'm trying to decide, and I'd like any suggestions, is where to line up my stance / NPA.

 

Do you line up with the first target? The targets after the transition? Or somewhere in the middle? 

 

For me, a right handed shooter, it "feels" better to set up with my stance squared towards the right target for a left to right transition but somewhere in the middle for a right to left transition. I haven't had a chance to try it in live fire yet and I don't have a timer yet (I use a phone app for dry fire), so I don't know for sure which is actually faster. 

 

What works best for you?

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I line my NPA up to the most difficult target in the array, then I use my legs/hips to shift my index from target to target. I do this pretty much every time, left to right or right to left doesn't matter.

Edited by Jake Di Vita
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46 minutes ago, Jake Di Vita said:

I line my NPA up to the most difficult target in the array, then I use my legs/hips to shift my index from target to target. I do this pretty much every time, left to right or right to left doesn't matter.

 

Do you still do this for really wide transitions, or is there a certain angle at which it starts to feel awkward to turn to one side or the other, causing you to adjust your technique or positioning?

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You also shoot tall and square. Feet shoulder width, torso upright. And do too much work with both feet.

 

At the start beep you could have taken a wide step out with the right foot and maybe leaned your torso slightly to quickly get your gun in line with the port, instead of the narrow-stanced two foot shuffle you did.

 

Same with your wide transitions. If it's simply too wide to get all of the targets "inside your toes" comfortably, you might need to move a foot: Not feet. One foot.

 

Next time you practice try setting up normally, aimed at the right targets. Then pivot on the ball of one foot - step back with the left foot or forward with your right - to swing around to the left targets. There's no need to pick up both feet and shuffle step around. Pivot aggressively on one foot and get low and wide like an NBA player. Deep enough you feel the strain in your thighs.

 

Take a look on YouTube for the ways guys like JJ Racaza or Dave Sevigny move. I feel like their some of the more athletic pro shooters and being a younger guy with two good knees? They're worth watching.

Edited by MemphisMechanic
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10 hours ago, MemphisMechanic said:

You also shoot tall and square. Feet shoulder width, torso upright. And do too much work with both feet.

 

I didn't watch the video but I'm sure this is accurate. 

 

10 hours ago, MemphisMechanic said:

If it's simply too wide to get all of the targets "inside your toes" comfortably

 

I don't worry about trying to get targets inside my toes although that is exactly what I used to do. I realized if I turn my feet out more than 30 degrees or so I lose all the stabilizing torque that I was able to generate in my hips with my feet straighter. For me the slightly more comfortable transition is not worth the loss of torque in my hips.

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For me it was always kind of like setting up for a station when shooting skeet.  Set up for where you want to break the bird and pivot back to look at the house.  Like Jake says, line up on the hardest shot and pivot from there.

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On 5/29/2017 at 1:02 AM, MemphisMechanic said:

You also shoot tall and square. Feet shoulder width, torso upright. And do too much work with both feet.

 

At the start beep you could have taken a wide step out with the right foot and maybe leaned your torso slightly to quickly get your gun in line with the port, instead of the narrow-stanced two foot shuffle you did.

 

Same with your wide transitions. If it's simply too wide to get all of the targets "inside your toes" comfortably, you might need to move a foot: Not feet. One foot.

 

Next time you practice try setting up normally, aimed at the right targets. Then pivot on the ball of one foot - step back with the left foot or forward with your right - to swing around to the left targets. There's no need to pick up both feet and shuffle step around. Pivot aggressively on one foot and get low and wide like an NBA player. Deep enough you feel the strain in your thighs.

 

Take a look on YouTube for the ways guys like JJ Racaza or Dave Sevigny move. I feel like their some of the more athletic pro shooters and being a younger guy with two good knees? They're worth watching.

 

So, what everyone seems to be saying is: generally, line up for the hardest target (or middle of an array if they're all equal) and go from there. 

 

What i'm wondering is more for the really wise transitions (close to the full 180). Your answer seems to be that it's okay to pivot, but do a true pivot rather than an awkard stutter step. I'll start trying this in dry fire and see how it feels, but it makes sense. It sounds like I also need to widen and deepen my stance, and work on footwork in general. 

 

In my dry fire this weekend, I tried working wider transitions, although I haven't tried the "pivot" yet. I found that, for left to right transitions, I can draw to the left with my stance set to put my NPA to the right with no problems This is slightly faster than having my NPA straight "down range" with a target close to 90 degrees to either side. For right to left transitions, trying to draw to the right with my NPA to the left feels very awkward, so I end up being smoother and faster leaving my NPA straight between the two targets. I'll have to see if pivoting on one foot is even faster. It'll definitely be more stable for the shots that would be at extreme angles. 

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57 minutes ago, DKorn said:

Also, which foot do you pivot around? Does it depend on whether you're moving forward or backward?

 

A production GM running a stage with a couple wide transitions:

 

 

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6 minutes ago, uewpew said:

 

A production GM running a stage with a couple wide transitions:

 

 

 

From the first big right to left transition he makes, it seems almost less like a difference in footwork (he moves both feet, although more quickly and efficiently than I did), and more like the biggest change is that he leads his turn with his head and gun, and the feet follow. I moved my feet first and the gun last. 

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1 hour ago, DKorn said:

 

From the first big right to left transition he makes, it seems almost less like a difference in footwork (he moves both feet, although more quickly and efficiently than I did), and more like the biggest change is that he leads his turn with his head and gun, and the feet follow. I moved my feet first and the gun last. 

 

Watch the second one halfway down the hall. He's only moving the second foot to setup to exit. In the second wide transition he pivots.

 

Do yourself a favor and watch him or another good GM on video. A tip I picked up from Steve Anderson's podcast was to watch the gun. Gray everything else out (target, body movement, reloads) and see how much time the gun spends up and ready.

 

Then do the same with your video. Or mine. Just watch the gun. You'll see where we lose time.

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  • 3 weeks later...
On ‎5‎/‎30‎/‎2017 at 8:20 PM, DKorn said:

Also, which foot do you pivot around? Does it depend on whether you're moving forward or backward?

 

Whichever one you choose, just make sure it won't pivot you ahead of the targets.  I had to DQ a shooter on a stage with an extreme transition (~160 degrees) pivoted forward with his left foot to engage right side targets, then pivoted forward with the right foot to engage left side targets...and broke the 180.

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On 5/30/2017 at 6:20 PM, DKorn said:

Also, which foot do you pivot around? Does it depend on whether you're moving forward or backward?

It doesn't mater, Left, Right, Both, whatever You have to try things and see what will get your eyes and gun from one target to another the fastest. each array will present differently how you are approaching and leaving that array will also have an impact on how you turn and where it is best for your feet to be. 

 

Do practice the ideas given in this thread, but don't get stuck thinking one answer is the right one and will always work best, try a couple different ways ways during your walk through on the stage to have a better idea what will work best in that instance. 

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