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Can't remove flare


SlvrDragon50

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Trying to figure out bullet seating and crimping on my Hornady LnL. I have a Hornady taper crimp seater die, and I have the bullet height set to ~1.13", though I have one bullet at 1.10".

 

I can't seem to get rid of the flare to let the case seat properly. Am I just expanding too much during the PTX? I have the crimp adjuster all the way down.

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Without pictures, it sounds like you're flaring too much. Just enough flare to get the bullet started is all you need. Excessive amounts will be a pain to remove, if you can remove it at all. Just enough crimp to chamber/case gauge is all you need as well.


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Seating and crimping in the same station. I was thinking I was flaring too much (could def see it by eye, far away), but I didn't think it was too much. My problem was that the bullets had a tendency to fall over. 

 

I'll try some new cases with less flare. It's kinda a PITA to get this Hornady bullet feeder die to work with the coated lead!

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I have an LNL and use coated bullets (The Blue Bullets) in 9 & 45 with their bullet feeder.  I found that it worked best for me to seat and crimp in 2 different stations.

 

Once you get it dialed in the bullet feeder works very well...getting there can be a bit of a challenge especially with coated bullets.

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3 minutes ago, techj said:

I have an LNL and use coated bullets (The Blue Bullets) in 9 & 45 with their bullet feeder.  I found that it worked best for me to seat and crimp in 2 different stations.

 

Once you get it dialed in the bullet feeder works very well...getting there can be a bit of a challenge especially with coated bullets.

Yea. I can only get the bullets to drop if I am forceful on the down stroke to release the bullet. I am going to get a grinding stone and try and remove a bit of material in the second collet.

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You probably won't need a grinding stone.

 

First off - go slow & be careful as it easy to damage the collets (I know :angry: from personal experience).

 

What worked for me with my bullets was to use some sandpaper on a dowel with the top collet until the bullet would just drop through.  Please note that once you do this it will only work on that specific diameter bullet and you won't be able to use the collet for jacketed.

 

Then on the lower collet I cleaned up the opening with the same sandpaper + dowel and then had to gently spread the fingers until the bullet would drop partially through the collet.  Again go easy as I have also broken a finger off of a collet.

 

Once I go to this point it was a matter of adjusting the die by following the instructions and then small changes in the flare of the cases.  It won't take excessive pressure to run.

 

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33 minutes ago, techj said:

You probably won't need a grinding stone.

 

First off - go slow & be careful as it easy to damage the collets (I know :angry: from personal experience).

 

What worked for me with my bullets was to use some sandpaper on a dowel with the top collet until the bullet would just drop through.  Please note that once you do this it will only work on that specific diameter bullet and you won't be able to use the collet for jacketed.

 

Then on the lower collet I cleaned up the opening with the same sandpaper + dowel and then had to gently spread the fingers until the bullet would drop partially through the collet.  Again go easy as I have also broken a finger off of a collet.

 

Once I go to this point it was a matter of adjusting the die by following the instructions and then small changes in the flare of the cases.  It won't take excessive pressure to run.

 

 Yea. I think the fact that I can get it to feed if I'm fast and forceful means it's very close. I just need a bit more. I'm lucky and hte upper collet is already good!

 

What did you  use to spread the fingers?

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42 minutes ago, SlvrDragon50 said:

 Yea. I think the fact that I can get it to feed if I'm fast and forceful means it's very close. I just need a bit more. I'm lucky and hte upper collet is already good!

 

What did you  use to spread the fingers?

 

I used a utility knife blade...carefully.  But anything with a strong, thin edge should work.

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I used a utility knife blade...carefully.  But anything with a strong, thin edge should work.

I ground it down quite a bit and it's definitely feeding better now. I want to make sure my flare isn't too much though. If my bullets are sometimes being fed tilted is that diagnostic of anything? There's definitely enough crimp since I can manually place a bullet straight


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7 minutes ago, SlvrDragon50 said:

Can't as I have a powder cop.

Depending upon the powder that you use - if it drops very consistently (i.e. Power Pistol, Bullseye, most Accurate powders) then once you have confirmed the powder drop you can just visually examine/confirm the fill of each case...that is what I do.  I have an LED light setup so that I can clearly see the case before the bullet feed in order to confirm.

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1 minute ago, SlvrDragon50 said:


I ground it down quite a bit and it's definitely feeding better now. I want to make sure my flare isn't too much though. If my bullets are sometimes being fed tilted is that diagnostic of anything? There's definitely enough crimp since I can manually place a bullet straight


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If you have enough flare that the bullet feed die is working and the bullet is usually staying in place until seating then that's enough flare.  If you are occasionally having the bullet fall out then perhaps the press isn't moving smoothly enough between stations.

 

I'm assuming that you are using the PTX (powder through expander).  If you are it is possible that it is sticking causing you to have to muscle through more than you need to and causing excess motion in the press.  Sometime you need to polish the PTX and - depending upon how you're cleaning your cases - they may be too dry (no lube or carbon in side of the case mouth) resulting in excess friction.

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Just now, techj said:

If you have enough flare that the bullet feed die is working and the bullet is usually staying in place until seating then that's enough flare.  If you are occasionally having the bullet fall out then perhaps the press isn't moving smoothly enough between stations.

 

I'm assuming that you are using the PTX (powder through expander).  If you are it is possible that it is sticking causing you to have to muscle through more than you need to and causing excess motion in the press.  Sometime you need to polish the PTX and - depending upon how you're cleaning your cases - they may be too dry (no lube or carbon in side of the case mouth) resulting in excess friction.

 

Hmm. The bullets have a tendency to fall over towards the end of the stroke as the ram lowers. I feel like the bullet feeder should be pushing the bullet against the case somewhat so it's not just sitting the case? Should I lower the die some more? How far down the case should the die sit on it? Right now, my pretty much covers the entire case.

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With a flared case in the station and the die unscrewed you should raise the ram and then screw the die down until it just touches, remove the case and then turn it down about 1/4 turn further - that should do it.

 

If you have flared the case enough it should feed the bullet and the bullet should just sit in the case.

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1 minute ago, techj said:

With a flared case in the station and the die unscrewed you should raise the ram and then screw the die down until it just touches, remove the case and then turn it down about 1/4 turn further - that should do it.

 

If you have flared the case enough it should feed the bullet and the bullet should just sit in the case.

Okay, so my die is sitting way too low. Would you mind taking a picture of a flare case of yours? I guess I need to open my collet a lot more then since I have to push the case so far up to release the bullet.

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1 hour ago, SlvrDragon50 said:

Okay, so my die is sitting way too low. Would you mind taking a picture of a flare case of yours? I guess I need to open my collet a lot more then since I have to push the case so far up to release the bullet.

I'll try to get some pix posted tomorrow or the next day as I am in the middle of reloading 308's at the moment.

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If you bell in the powder drop, you save a station.

I've got a bullet feeder die.

 

I'll try to get some pix posted tomorrow or the next day as I am in the middle of reloading 308's at the moment.

Awesome, thanks!

 

This is how low my die has to go for a bullet to drop. 14756f7f19cd630b95b62066df3ea517.jpg

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Got it! Looks like my S2 doesn't like OAL bigger than 1.08". Also, the Hornady seat crimp adjust YT video sucks. I followed the manual and got it going right away.

 

One question now, it looks like to get the right amount of crimp, the bullet is getting stuck in the seater as I lower the ram. Do I just back out my die body height and figure out the seat depth and crimp again?

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Always

6 hours ago, SlvrDragon50 said:

Got it! Looks like my S2 doesn't like OAL bigger than 1.08". Also, the Hornady seat crimp adjust YT video sucks. I followed the manual and got it going right away.

 

One question now, it looks like to get the right amount of crimp, the bullet is getting stuck in the seater as I lower the ram. Do I just back out my die body height and figure out the seat depth and crimp again?

Glad to hear that you have the bullet feed/flare working.

 

Re the seat & crimp, you should always adjust the seat depth first with no crimp.  Then slowly adjust the crimp until it just removes the flare.  Unless you are roll crimping for a revolver you will be taper crimping - more a removal of flare than anything else.  You are not trying to compress or push the brass into the bullet.  If your bullet is plated or coated lead then make sure that you are not cutting or deforming the coating - you will need to pull a bullet to check.

 

Easiest way to check is to use a case gauge or better yet your barrel - REMOVED from your firearm and perform a "plunk test" which will also allow you to confirm that your seating depth is not too long for your firearm.  There are lots of posts on doing a plunk test that you can find.  You should also be checking the seating depth with your calipers to make sure that you are in spec per your reloading guide for your powder charge.

 

Also, please note that when you crimp & seat with the same die that as you increase the crimp it may push the bullet deeper so your seating may require fine tuning as you go.  

Edited by techj
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