Considering Single-Stack; looking for expert wisdom

[fishsticks]

Comparing ss nationals to other big matches isn't apples to apples. Ss nationals remains 8 round neutral, and this heavily favors major. Other matches aren't necessarily as neutral with respect to round count and thus the gap narrows. A better comparison would be to look at the area matches and compare results there. Ss, more so than limited the balance can sway as capacity is traded for scoring. 2 rounds in limited isn't much most of the time. 2 rounds in single stack can be the difference between a standing reload or not. Depending on the HF and your reload speed it makes a difference.

[zzt]

If you want to run inexpensive (relatively) factory ammo, get a 9mm 1911 and shoot SS minor.  It will be your least expensive option.  Store bought 45 ammo is going to be hotter than you want.  If you want less restrictive gear positioning, shoot L10 Minor with it.

 

If you are not hung up on a 1911, consider Carry Optics.  Now you have a dot and no mag capacity restrictions.  Everyone is scored Minor, so no penalty.  Really, a CZ with dot and 20 round mags will be a lot of fun, especially since you are used to shooting 8.

[matteekay]

13 hours ago, Southpaw said:

I have a RIA Ultra in 9mm.  For a lower price 1911 it's pretty good.  Comes out of the box ready to use for USPSA which is nice.  Would be a cheap way to try out SS and see if you like it.  Then when you do, which obviously you will since anything is better than revolver , you can get a nicer one and use the RIA as a backup.

 

HOW DARE YOU, lol. It's a running gag at my local club - every stage someone asks me "How many reloads is this for you?" and I always reply "All of them. All of the reloads.". I am sorta liking the idea of trying it with a 9mm though.

 

1 hour ago, Blueridge said:

My counter to that is that the skill of the "big boys" to shoot major or minor is about the same, but shooting major provides a bit of "cushion" scoring wise.

 

Right, I think that's the main reason to go major. Even one or two C's can be a huge difference with major scoring. I'll let you know once I'm done setting up my S&W 629 for Revo Major, lol.

 

3 minutes ago, zzt said:

If you want to run inexpensive (relatively) factory ammo, get a 9mm 1911 and shoot SS minor.  It will be your least expensive option.  Store bought 45 ammo is going to be hotter than you want.  If you want less restrictive gear positioning, shoot L10 Minor with it.

 

If you are not hung up on a 1911, consider Carry Optics.  Now you have a dot and no mag capacity restrictions.  Everyone is scored Minor, so no penalty.  Really, a CZ with dot and 20 round mags will be a lot of fun, especially since you are used to shooting 8.

 

Also really good feedback. I don't want to get into the dot game just yet but it's something to consider.

 

Thanks again, everyone!

[davidb72]

I shoot a STI Trojan 9mm in SS and really enjoy it.

The gun shoots so flat and there is so little recoil and it's very accurate.

For me the Dawson magazines work well in my guns.

I have a Trojan in 45 as well but hardly shoot it - the only time I miss major scoring is when it's time to shoot classifiers.

[motosapiens]

On 5/25/2017 at 8:44 AM, Schutzenmeister said:

I absolutely, positively, 100% guarantee that if the "big boys" of the sport thought they could do better shooting minor than shooting Major, THEY WOULD SWITCH IN A HEARTBEAT!

 

Again, this should tell folks something.

 

actually a large number of area matches have been won shooting minor the last few years. nationals, not so much, because the stages and targets are very specifically designed to punish minor and reward major. No one will EVER win nationals shooting minor until that changes.

 

Another major/minor consideration is skill/ability/experience related. The more skilled you are, the better major looks. You have to have the disciplines to go 1-for-1 on most steel, but then be ready to hose open paper targets, and shoot fast at the middle of brown on tight partials. If you are B class or lower, shooting major will probably hurt you at most non-national matches due to slow unplanned reloads.

 

I've shot quite a bit of both major and minor the last couple years, and I've had some success with both. For me it only seems to be a couple percent difference with one or the other getting the advantage due to stage design. silly stages like 4 8-round steel arrays, or an unloaded start with 8-round arrays will definitely favor minor, and I won such a stage at A3 last year shooting minor because the major shooters had to shoot more carefully or risk unplanned standing reloads. 

 

If you're not going to go to nationals and try to place as well as you can, then it really doesn't matter which you choose. both will allow you to have fun, and compete and get better...... but a major gun will probably run more reliably with less fuss and muss.

[Schutzenmeister]

9 hours ago, motosapiens said:

 

actually a large number of area matches have been won shooting minor the last few years.

 

 

Thank you ... This may very well prove my point.  Top shooters - or at least those with the wherewithal to have multiple guns available for a given division - appear to already choosing their gun based on the facts of the match they are entering.  Apparently, they looked at the setups and decided which gun would give them the best chance to win.

 

Nothing sinister in that!

[motosapiens]

35 minutes ago, Schutzenmeister said:

 

Thank you ... This may very well prove my point.  Top shooters - or at least those with the wherewithal to have multiple guns available for a given division - appear to already choosing their gun based on the facts of the match they are entering.  Apparently, they looked at the setups and decided which gun would give them the best chance to win.

 

Nothing sinister in that!

it can also sometimes just be more fun to shoot 10 rounds. if there is no heat in SS division, you can compare your scores directly with production, and there always seems to be some serious production heat at major matches.

[PatJones]

...If you're not going to go to nationals and try to place as well as you can, then it really doesn't matter which you choose. both will allow you to have fun, and compete and get better...... but a major gun will probably run more reliably with less fuss and muss.

 

Well said. I would add that it's the 45s that run without much fuss.

 

 

[motosapiens]

6 hours ago, PatJones said:

 

Well said. I would add that it's the 45s that run without much fuss.

 

 

 

In my experience this is extremely true, but I may just be a retard when it comes to setting up a 9mm. It took a bunch of trial and error and some frustrating malfunctions in matches over 6 months or so before i finally got my 9mm dialed...... and then it wouldn't run 100% for my wife (possibly due to a less stern grip). You need just the right combination of springs, bullet shape, magazines, etc....  I finally just bought her an STI Edge and she has been loving limited division the last 2 months.

 

OTOH, my trojan 45 has run with almost no issues for 30k rounds or so.

[PatJones]

 
In my experience this is extremely true, but I may just be a retard when it comes to setting up a 9mm. It took a bunch of trial and error and some frustrating malfunctions in matches over 6 months or so before i finally got my 9mm dialed...... and then it wouldn't run 100% for my wife (possibly due to a less stern grip). You need just the right combination of springs, bullet shape, magazines, etc....  I finally just bought her an STI Edge and she has been loving limited division the last 2 months.
 
OTOH, my trojan 45 has run with almost no issues for 30k rounds or so.

The external extractor on the Smith and Wesson 9mm 1911s works every time, just like it's supposed to.

[motosapiens]

22 hours ago, PatJones said:

The external extractor on the Smith and Wesson 9mm 1911s works every time, just like it's supposed to.

 

so you're arguing with yourself now? lol.

[PatJones]

 
so you're arguing with yourself now? lol.

Just pointing out that the S&W external extractor is less troublesome than the typical internal one in 9mm.

[cas]

9mm's?

External extractors? 

 

This thread is a perfect example of all that is wrong with America. 

[davidb72]

On 5/29/2017 at 1:14 AM, motosapiens said:

 

actually a large number of area matches have been won shooting minor the last few years. nationals, not so much, because the stages and targets are very specifically designed to punish minor and reward major. No one will EVER win nationals shooting minor until that changes.

 

Another major/minor consideration is skill/ability/experience related. The more skilled you are, the better major looks. You have to have the disciplines to go 1-for-1 on most steel, but then be ready to hose open paper targets, and shoot fast at the middle of brown on tight partials. If you are B class or lower, shooting major will probably hurt you at most non-national matches due to slow unplanned reloads.

 

I've shot quite a bit of both major and minor the last couple years, and I've had some success with both. For me it only seems to be a couple percent difference with one or the other getting the advantage due to stage design. silly stages like 4 8-round steel arrays, or an unloaded start with 8-round arrays will definitely favor minor, and I won such a stage at A3 last year shooting minor because the major shooters had to shoot more carefully or risk unplanned standing reloads. 

 

If you're not going to go to nationals and try to place as well as you can, then it really doesn't matter which you choose. both will allow you to have fun, and compete and get better...... but a major gun will probably run more reliably with less fuss and muss.

Agree with this 100%.

The really good shooters benefit from the major scoring and have the ability to go one for one when they have to.

The B class hacks like me benefit from the extra two rounds but lose out on the extra points.

I do find my 9mm 1911 to be extremely pleasant to shoot though. My .45 not so much.

[motosapiens]

1 hour ago, davidb72 said:

I do find my 9mm 1911 to be extremely pleasant to shoot though. My .45 not so much.

 

my petite wife also didn't like my 45, especially the large grips with rough grip tape.

 

[Bamboo]

I love the .45, but really enjoy shooting a 9mm 1911.  It almost makes me giggle.  At local matches I don't feel handicapped at all shooting 9mm in SS. 

[DukeEB]

I'm conflicted.  I will shoot some matches in SS (I also shoot limited), but I have a 45 sig max, and a 9mm DW PM9.  I love shooting both of them!

[motosapiens]

6 minutes ago, DukeEB said:

 but I have a 45 sig max, and a 9mm DW PM9.  I love shooting both of them!

it is a perfect opportunity to do your own research and report back. shoot a few matches with each and let us know which one gets you to a higher percentage of the local hotshots.

[DukeEB]

Roger that!

[Blueridge]

After shooting "hot" loaded 45 Colt (250gr bullet, 745fps - 783fps) in Revolver Division for years, going to shooting 45 ACP (230gr bullet, 835fps) in Single Stack Division seemed/seems relatively mild to me. Shooting a pistol with 9mm generally feels very tame to me. Therefore I can see how shooting a single stack pistol in 9mm would be attractive.

Edited June 1, 2017 by Blueridge

[zzt]

I don't know why you would shoot 235gr @ 835fps for SS.  That is way hotter than you need.  I shoot a 200gr TC at 860fps for 172PF, and it is a lot softer shooting than factory.

[pskys2]

On 5/25/2017 at 11:50 AM, matteekay said:

 

HOW DARE YOU, lol. It's a running gag at my local club - every stage someone asks me "How many reloads is this for you?" and I always reply "All of them. All of the reloads.". I am sorta liking the idea of trying it with a 9mm though.

 

 

Right, I think that's the main reason to go major. Even one or two C's can be a huge difference with major scoring. I'll let you know once I'm done setting up my S&W 629 for Revo Major, lol.

 

 

Also really good feedback. I don't want to get into the dot game just yet but it's something to consider.

 

Thanks again, everyone!

I shot a M29-3 with 44 russians for the first 5 years of Revolver Division, only down side was finding RN bullets, most 44 bullets are made to work in Lever Action Rifles?!!!

There is a box a 1911 must fit into for SS.  And 8 round mags may not fit if the mag base pad is too long.  So no 10 round mags will work.

[Eureka1911]

4 hours ago, zzt said:

I don't know why you would shoot 235gr @ 835fps for SS.  That is way hotter than you need.  I shoot a 200gr TC at 860fps for 172PF, and it is a lot softer shooting than factory.

 

I'm shooting a 230 gr FMJ bullet loaded at 750 fps for a PF of 172.  Really happy with this for USPSA SS.

 

I have a Wilson Combat Magwell and use Wilson 47D and CMC 8-round magazines. Fits just fine in the box.

Edited June 2, 2017 by Eureka1911

[zzt]

9 hours ago, Eureka1911 said:

 

I'm shooting a 230 gr FMJ bullet loaded at 750 fps for a PF of 172.  Really happy with this for USPSA SS.

 

 

That's a far cry from the 230 at 835 stated above.

[GregJ]

20 hours ago, Bamboo said:

I love the .45, but really enjoy shooting a 9mm 1911.  It almost makes me giggle.  At local matches I don't feel handicapped at all shooting 9mm in SS. 

 

This.  With the exception of last year, I shot SS .45 for the first 6 years or so I shot USPSA.  Last year I switched to minor, and love it.  Stage break down (aka reloads) fits most matches better.  As long as you shoot A's, the points are the same. Plus it is cheaper in the long run to shoot. 

 

Loading almost strictly 9 minor now, I can shoot SS, CO and PCC with the same load.  ;cheers: