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Are 38 SC neccasary to be competitive


Makicjf

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Howdy!

           I'm in a bit of a quandary.  After many painful attempts to make my 929 make USPSA minor and not randomly tie up or stick, I sold it to a ICORE guy ( with full disclosure of my trials and failures) .  I was very dejected as I had to withdraw from the 2017 revolver Nats .  I have picked up a 627.  I've had one in the past and really loved it ( I wish I could remember what why I sold it) and competed using Starline 38 Specials and TK Starline clips.  I don't remember my reloads being painful or slow, but I have been fighting with my 929 since January and may have forgotten.  I do remember that that 627 would ring an 8 inch plate at 100 yards from a field rest.  I have made it to 78% with a combo of my long gone 627 and my (also gone) 929.  I want to keep climbing, however,   I have concerns about the accuracy of 38 SC in the 627.  I am a much more accurate shooter than a "fast" shooter; moreover the 2 local clubs I shoot with have been invaded by and inculcated with the PCC bug.  They stretch out a lot of targets to 50 yards.  I have concerns that the simpler 38 sc reloads compared to specials will be negated by poorer accuracy at range.  My intent is to start with the 38 special and see where I stand and if I stall due to reload speed convert to 38 Short and Chopped.   

   I am a 100% self taught revolver shooter and would love any insight from ya'll!  I'm tired of fumbling in the dark by myself!

Jason Wilson

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2 hours ago, BHill said:

The accuracy of the short colts will not hold you back in any way shape or form.

 

17 minutes ago, alecmc said:

No, You do NOT need to load 38 short colt to be competitive.

 

I agree with both above

Shoot the gun with what you have and keep getting better.

I can reload specials just .01 slower than scolts

I use s c cause they were the hotness when I got my last 627. So I jumped on board

Specials will only hold you back in your head, if you let it

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Thanks for the replies.   I just ordered 500 38 SC from starline.  I'm going to load the 160 Bayous ( in pretty pretty gold) I was feeding my 929.  I'll compare accuracy and reload times to the Specials and see if one shines more than the other.  I've got several thousand RP and federal for my .025 revolver supply clips and about 1k of the starline 38 Special +p brass for the TK Clips.  I've got just under 8lbs of uique, about 6lbs of Bullseye and 4 lbs of Red Dot.  I can't find any data using unique for the 38 sc.  I'd think a slower powder such as Unique would be safer in the little case under the heavy 160.  In my 929, loaded long, 3.2 grains was the best but would had to wide a ES that would skate right at or just below 125 pf.   I'm also slightly concerned about the 4 inch tube on the 627 not allowing enough burn to make pf without going over pressure. I'm going to start at a 1.20 oal .  Do ya'll think 2.8 would be a good start point for unique and the Bayou 160?  

     It also appears, according to the scuttlebutt  I've read, I can cobble together SC dies using my 38 sizer and 9mm seat , expander and crimp dies.  Is that correct?  Is 2.5-3 inches rested at 25 yards an achievable accuracy goal for a 38 sc?  

I apologize for the incessant questions, but I'm tired of spinning my wheels and want to drive on without fighting my equipment ON EVERY STAGE! ;)

Thanks!

Jason Wilson

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A lot of folks have been using .38 long colts cheerfully for a couple of decades.  Gives you a little on .38 special on ejection and a little room in the case re margin of error on reloading/pressure

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5 hours ago, Makicjf said:

> snip <

I can't find any data using unique for the 38 sc.  I'd think a slower powder such as Unique would be safer in the little case under the heavy 160.  In my 929, loaded long, 3.2 grains was the best but would had to wide a ES that would skate right at or just below 125 pf.

> snip <

You can use 9mm data for the Short Colts ... on the Alliant site they show a maximum of 4.3 grains Unique with a 147gr bullet. 

 

I have been using two Unique loads for my Short Colts with a 5 inch 627...

147gr Blue Bullets (coated and actually weigh 150gr) with 3.7gr Unique at 1.17 oal - they average 854 out of my gun making 128pf the last time I checked. 

147gr XTreme (copper plated and really weigh 147gr) with 3.7gr Unique at 1.16 oal - they average 862 making 126pf.

 

There is plenty of room with either of these loads to boost them a tenth or two if you are shooting a USPSA match w/ chrono. They are way over for ICORE ... (only need 120 ... take a tenth or two the other way if you like). Both are pleasant to shoot ... I don't bother trying to crank them out any lighter. Plenty of folks (probably most) shoot 160s and there is plenty of data in this forum. 

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When I was shooting a 627pc my load with plated bullets was holding 4" at 50 from the table. Same thing with the same bullets in specials. They'll shoot, just may take some tweaking. 

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Thanks to you all!  I've got some work ahead of me , so I'm just waiting for the brass to arrive.  If I can get a consistent 4 inches at 50 yards, then the shorts should be a no brainer. 

Thanks for the help!

Jason

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Oh, man...I actually enjoy the long range stuff.  Some of the standards are tough to get, but the ones that are stretched out and do not have a par time I really enjoy and do pretty well on.   Maybe a mix would satiate... always up close and fast can get tedious.  I, personally like the long range challenge under the clock.  Every practice session ( ok, almost every day :) ) starts at 100 yards from a field rest, then fifty off hand, then I move in and practice draw, turn and draw, transitions etc.   I guess I'm really a big bore hand gun hunter at heart and I like to know I can reach out and touch something with a big hunk of lead  that's always by my side.  Though a 38 special loaded to minor doesn't count, a 160 wfn loaded to 38/44 levels in a 38 case does!  I can also attest to its potency at 40 yards on a not so happy hog!  

Again thanks to ya'll for the help!  I'm sure I'll need some more guidance as I start stuffing cases!

Jason

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Ok,

Now I remember!  The 627 with 38 special and good moonclips  requires a split second of focus on the 11;00 o'clock charge hole that a 625 or a 929 does not...

I remember because I picked up the 627 and fiddled with it... That being said... the shop has a 625-8 with a 5 inch tube for $%@% $550... in pristine condition... I want it to mount a light under the lug for a nightstand, check stock,  house/  shoot random hog, get the heck out of my chicken coop you varmint gun... a 260 keith at 950 is a big hole, I mean big whole lot of stop, don't eat my chickens, leave my family alone...

I don't need ANOTHER ( but it has a longer barrel....) "useless " 625 ... Right?

Wheel guns are an addiction...

Jason

Edited by Makicjf
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Thanks for all the advice.  A bit of tinkering and this is where I arrived:

Star line 38 SC 

160 bayou rn

4.1 grains unique

Seated to 1.270

Roll crimp into lube groove

818 fps average over 8 shots

3.8 of unique and 1.20 had essentially the same fps, but the group size doubled and despite my best chamfering efforts would hang.  I can launch the roll crimp from five yards and they drop in . Using .025 revolver supply clips. TK Star line would be even better.

8 shots 15 yards off hand was just over an inch.  Could not get the pic to resize on my phone!?

Found my winner!

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...and a while bunch of chickens!  We're spending today building a better "Chicken Ranch" house!?

Thanks for all the advice.  A bit of tinkering and this is where I arrived:

Star line 38 SC 

160 bayou rn

4.1 grains unique

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Had real good luck with the 160 bayou 2.8 clays/clay dot at 1.180 oal and Taper Crimping them.  A roll crimp never seemed to help, and would bulge the case a bit at the mouth, due to no crimp groove.  But have not had any bullet pull issues with a taper crimp.

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