Sigting in Handgun from Bench?

[Smitty79]

I can easily measure the difference on POI vs POA with 124 gn bullets vs 147.   That tells me that how the gun recoils is important when sighting in a hand gun.   For USPSA, are we better off sighting in freestyle, as that gives the same recoil properties as the shooting at the match?

[Taroman]

I split the difference.

Arm supported on bags, allowing the gun to recoil normally.

[MemphisMechanic]

I'll repeat earlier advice: don't discount how much more accurately you slow fire on the center of an 8" steel plate than paper. Not until you actually try it.

 

I shoot for groups benchrested. However, I sight the gun in based on the POI of my freestyle shooting at 25yd on a freshly painted steel plate.

Edited May 17, 2017 by MemphisMechanic

[Hi-Power Jack]

I haven't seen any difference in Point of Impact from a benched TruBor

and a  freehand held TruBor, 9mm Major.     

 

If you suspect there is a difference, I'd do both - shoot from the bench

and also freehand, to confirm your bullets are landing where you think

they're landing.     

[KYTrunkMonkey]

I could see where shooting from a benched position would be easier to replicate shots.  But, shouldn't the POI be the same regardless of benched or freehand, as long as sight picture and trigger pull is the same?  I have seen new shooters shot low when resting their elbows on a bench, but it is usually due to the fact they don't get their head down far enough to look through the sights instead of over them.

[tyman1876]

I'll repeat earlier advice: don't discount how much more accurately you slow fire on the center of an 8" steel plate than paper. Not until you actually try it.
 
I shoot for groups benchrested. However, I sight the gun in based on the POI of my freestyle shooting at 25yd on a freshly painted steel plate.

I do the same! I'll use the bolt on one of my steel torsos as my POA.

Adjust the sights, paint it up, try again.

[glockman75]

I prefer to bench rest the gun with the muzzle or frame on bags.
I haven't found a difference in POI from holding freestyle.
I aim at a 2" shoot n see circle pasted to a Metric target.
I attempt to sight in my gun before every weekend match. I find it builds confidence because I know exactly where the current batch of reloads are landing.


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[adamge]

Personally I zero my handgun iron sights by shooting seated at a bench, with the bottom of my hands resting on something that elevates them just a bit off the surface, like a pistol ammo container.  After doing that I am always satisfied with my zero on steel and paper shooting freestyle.

[bradsteimel]

Can't imagine, if you have good trigger technique, that there'd be a difference between POI with freestyle v. resting the barrel on a bag?!?  

Resting on the bag should give a slightly more consistent POI by reducing one's slight muzzle movement during freestyle.

[Sarge]

I was asked by a GM, "do you shoot your matches from a bench?" I too thought it was the best way to zero until I realized poi can change from bench to freestyle. These days I use bench during load development to verify a load will group well and rough in the zero. But final zero is done freestyle.

[Dutchman195]

i'l zero the gun from the bench. Which is basically my range back with the gun sitting on top of it. Once its zero'd from the bench I'll shooting everything else freestyle. Including checking the zero by shooting freestyle. Probably shoot a max of 10 rounds from the bench all season. 

[SJan]

On 07/18/2017 at 8:22 AM, Sarge said:

I was asked by a GM, "do you shoot your matches from a bench?" I too thought it was the best way to zero until I realized poi can change from bench to freestyle. These days I use bench during load development to verify a load will group well and rough in the zero. But final zero is done freestyle.

Is there an explanation for why the poi is different from bench/freestyle

[Hi-Power Jack]

52 minutes ago, SJan said:

Is there an explanation for why the poi is different from bench/freestyle

 

I doubt that there is a difference    

[IHAVEGAS]

1 hour ago, SJan said:

Is there an explanation for why the poi is different from bench/freestyle

 

The shooter  

 

I think we tend to be more able to hold the gun level through the trigger pull and mechanical impact of the hammer when helped by a physical support. 

[Sarge]

1 hour ago, SJan said:

Is there an explanation for why the poi is different from bench/freestyle

Not from me. But I do notice a slight difference and fine tune from freestyle.

[JeremiahD]

when I replaced my front sight recently, I used a benchrest to make sure it was properly adjusted simply to remove a variable.  When done, I shot freestyle to see how it was working out, no changes needed, no problems.  If nothing else, it was peace of mind. 

[Hammer002]

On ‎8‎/‎1‎/‎2017 at 2:01 PM, SJan said:

Is there an explanation for why the poi is different from bench/freestyle

 

I would point out Enos actually goes into great detail on this exact subject in his book and explains exactly this quite well.  Not trying to sound dismissive, but he really does go really in-depth.  Without looking and going just from memory, I think its an entire chapter at least.

[perttime]

1 hour ago, Hammer002 said:

 

I would point out Enos actually goes into great detail on this exact subject in his book and explains exactly this quite well.  Not trying to sound dismissive, but he really does go really in-depth.  Without looking and going just from memory, I think its an entire chapter at least.

 

There's a page on Group Shooting at the end.

 

Quote

"I use my normal freestyle grip and keep the same tension in my arms and hands as I use offhand. ... I'm careful not to put any downward force on the bag; I get it so that the gun is just sitting there perfectly lined up on the center of the target."

 

I rarely have a chance to use a rest, so all sorts of extra tensions creep in when I do try it. Extra tension means change in point of impact.

Edited August 3, 2017 by perttime

[Hammer002]

50 minutes ago, perttime said:

 

There's a page on Group Shooting at the end.

 

Um...ok, well I stand corrected and had to go look for the specific detail instead of a reference from memory - There is an Appendix C where Mr Enos lays out exactly how he performs the "Group Shooting" he makes reference to throughout the entire book.  Its four pages on my kindle layout.

 

Appendix C:  Group Shooting

"Since I've made such a point of the importance of learning accuracy and the importance of making group shooting a big part of your practice, I'd like to tell you exactly how I shoot a group."

 

-------Author Brian Enos:  Practical Shooting, Beyond Fundamentals

 

The point remains, in his book he specifically addresses the subject being discussed, different POI vs POA when bench shooting and attributes it to a lack of many disciplines, especially trigger control.  I would rather not further plagiarize the content he worked hard to publish and only point someone in the direction of the resource, but would also not like to see it dismissed in his own forum as being one page at the end.  He makes reference to the importance of group shooting throughout the entire book and does indeed define group shooting for additional help as an appendix.  Without reading the entire book again for the fourth or fifth time myself, I seem to remember the idea discussed specifically at great length in one of the chapters.  

Edited August 3, 2017 by Hammer002

[perttime]

19 minutes ago, Hammer002 said:

 

... He makes reference to the importance of group shooting throughout the entire book ...

 

 

Totally agree.

 

As I recall, he considers the ability to shoot accurately the basic thing. A foundation for placing sufficiently  accurate shots under time pressure.

[Bdh821]

I always bench rest my gun when sighting in. I haven't noticed anything other than my hits being where I'm putting the dot 

[zinger4040]

Same here

[zinger4040]

19 hours ago, Bdh821 said:

I always bench rest my gun when sighting in. I haven't noticed anything other than my hits being where I'm putting the dot 

Same here

[Goodonpaper]

Maybe I'm missing something, but wouldn't you want to know that your gun is 'mechanically accurate' with the sights or dot before attempting to fire for groups?

 

I'm not consistent enough to feel like I can adjust my sights freestyle. 

[Hi-Power Jack]

7 hours ago, Goodonpaper said:

 

I'm not consistent enough to feel like I can adjust my sights freestyle. 

 

Bingo.   We have a winner    .....