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Squib rounds


Eric1231

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My friend and I have had squibbs also. We were buying primers from a guy pretty cheap. The primers were not bright and shiny but looked dark and dull looking. We have loaded thousands of rounds with them before shooting a lot of them. We started shooting them and we had  as much as 3 out of a hundred squibb rounds. The bullet was stuck in the barrel with powder in the mag. We only shoot them at the range slowly so we will catch the squibbs before we shoot again and blow up the barrel. Before we realized what was the cause I gave another friend a bag of bullets that I had loaded when he bought a new Glock 17 so he could try it out. He called me in a few days and told me his gun wouldn't load any bullets. He said that the bullets were too long and wouldn't go in the barrel. I told him not to shoot anymore and let me check out his gun. He brought it over and there was a bullet lodged in the barrel, just enough that it wouldn't load another. Primers are my problem with squibbs not not having low or no powder. I have had them in 45 acp and 9mm. My friend has had squibbs in 9mm and a 10mm. We have thousands of slow fire rounds that we have to shoot up. We wouldn't dare rapid fire these rounds. Also we didn't use case lube on them. I don't know if these were Oboma primers or not. Maybe???

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Todd, primers have nothing to do with squibs. They either ignite, or they don't. Now if there is no powder in the case, and the primer ignites, you have a squib. And pulling the trigger on a squib round will not blow up the gun, it can, however, bulge the barrel. What do you mean by "powder in the mag"? Do you mean residual powder in the case? What powder and charge weight are you using? What bullet weight, shape and material (jacketed, plated, coated,etc) are you using? What's your OAL? What press are you loading on? What brand of primers? Is this the first time you have reloaded anything? If you are squibbing 9s. 45s and 10s, you have an operator error.

 

You never load thousands, or even hundreds, of rounds without first case gaging them and plunk testing them in the gun barrel you are going to use. About 20 or so rounds, and then function firing them to boot. Then do not change anything and start loading now that  you know they work.

 

I don't know what you mean by "cheap" primers, but WW primers often look dull. It has nothing to do with function. What do you mean by "Oboma" primers? By the way, it's spelled Obama.... Primers produced today are no different than primers made before or after  he was president.

Edited by 9x45
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3 minutes ago, 9x45 said:

Todd, primers have nothing to do with squibs. They either ignite, or they don't. Now if there is no powder in the case, and the primer ignites, you have a squib. And pulling the trigger on a squib round will not blow up the gun, it can, however, bulge the barrel. What do you mean by "powder in the mag"? Do you mean residual powder in the case? What powder and charge weight are you using? What bullet weight, shape and material (jacketed, plated, coated,etc) are you using? What's your OAL? What press are you loading on? What brand of primers? Is this the first time you have reloaded anything?

Well, primers do have something to with squibs...if you didn't have a primer, or the primer was bad, you have a dud, not a squib...

 

As for the powder all inside the mag, bullet lodged in barrel, I would think that it's more a case of wet or bad powder, and the powder did not burn completely.  

 

It also could be that they were loaded too long, and one got stuck in the lands and grooves of the rifling, and separated when the slide was racked, dumping powder in the mag. 

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There are at least two instances where the primer may be the culprit to a squib.  Squibs I define as any low (or lower than expected) load, with a BIB (bullet in bore) being a special sort of squib where the bullet does not exit the bore.  I like to use the term squib when the bullet does exit the bore and the term BIB when the bullet lodges in the bore for clarity.

 

How many time have you heard of people having a BIB and the action is filled with powder?  To have the BIB, the primer must have fired, but fired with insufficient heat to ignite the powder charge.  This may be due to insufficient primer mix or from contamination of the priming mix.

 

Most of the time contamination will result in a dud. but not always.  Insufficient priming mix simply does not have enough to do much more than fizzle instead of pop.

 

Neither is common, but overall, squibs are not common.

 

If you experience a BIB, the base of the bullet will tell you much.  If the base of the bullet is blackened, it signifies there was no powder.  The blackening is from the primer.  A bullet with a clean base indicates there was powder, but that it did not ignite, whether from contamination of the powder or primer, or from too little heat from the primer.

 

Guy

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I'm a fairly seasoned reloader but I will not reload handgun ammo without a powder check die (I use Dillon's version). I don't understand the "my eyeballs are the best powder check" sentiment. Everyone makes mistakes, we're human after all. I let the powder check do its thing AND eyeball the case before placing the projectile.

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After reading all the posts, I'm still not clear on how a bad primer could cause a fully loaded shell to 'partially' fire, causing a squid.

 

  • I've heard of no powder in the case resulting in a squib
  • I've heard of bad (won't ignite because  of moisture, etc.) powder resulting in a squib
  • Have not heard of a scenario where a bad primer could cause an otherwise perfectly loaded (powder is good) round to squib.  This could be my lucky, teaching moment day though...
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Primers are trying to accomplish two things when they fire (besides sealing the rear of the cartridge to prevent gases from going back into the action).  They must produce sufficient heat and pressure to first ignite the powder, and then sustain the powder burn (the initial pressure).

 

It the amount of priming mix is too little, it cannot develop either of these.  It may slightly fuse some of the powder granules, but it not not ignite them.

 

Contamination may rob the priming mix of developing sufficient heat, though it more commonly prevents ignition.  Oil is commonly quoted as a means of killing a primer.  That's not so.  According to the chemists, oil will raise the ignition temperature, meaning it takes more to fire the primer, but that it will still fire. (Oil soaked primers will be safer to handle, just don't think of them as inert.)

 

These are rare.  95+% of misfires are caused by incomplete seating, with all other causes falling into less than 5%.  The factories try to avoid contamination of the primers, and normally do a good job.  Most that may happen are generally caught by the quality inspection. Similarly, they are trying to put the correct amount of priming mix in each cup.

 

Therefore, it's not a surprise most have not encountered such problems, but they can happen.

 

In similar fashion, loads that work well at normal conditions may fail in arctic conditions where the lower temperature robs heat from the primer.  Thus, loads that are developed for arctic conditions will normally use magnum level primers since they are meant to provide more heat.  Note that military ammunition uses magnum level primers since they do not know where it may be used.

 

You shouldn't expect these sorts of problems, but they can occur.  Worry mostly about completely seating the primers.

 

Guy

 

 

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